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In reply to the discussion: Everyone is under surveillance now, says whistleblower Edward Snowden [View all]MADem
(135,425 posts)149. NSA isn't "law enforcement" like the United States Marine Corps isn't "law enforcement."
They aren't in the gig because they like to arrange tea roses. They're using that resource because they want to do some enforcement of laws.
If you read the entire speech, which was given at the National Defense University (where they don't arrange tea roses, either), you will see that the context of his remarks was NOT limited to police or FBI "law enforcement." His comments covered a much wider swathe: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/05/23/remarks-president-national-defense-university
This is what he said previous to your excerpt--this is plainly an international context, not simply domestic law enforcement:
And so our nation went to war. We have now been at war for well over a decade. I wont review the full history. What is clear is that we quickly drove al Qaeda out of Afghanistan, but then shifted our focus and began a new war in Iraq. And this carried significant consequences for our fight against al Qaeda, our standing in the world, and -- to this day -- our interests in a vital region.
Meanwhile, we strengthened our defenses -- hardening targets, tightening transportation security, giving law enforcement new tools to prevent terror. Most of these changes were sound. Some caused inconvenience. But some, like expanded surveillance, raised difficult questions about the balance that we strike between our interests in security and our values of privacy. And in some cases, I believe we compromised our basic values -- by using torture to interrogate our enemies, and detaining individuals in a way that ran counter to the rule of law.
So after I took office, we stepped up the war against al Qaeda but we also sought to change its course. We relentlessly targeted al Qaedas leadership. We ended the war in Iraq, and brought nearly 150,000 troops home. We pursued a new strategy in Afghanistan, and increased our training of Afghan forces. We unequivocally banned torture, affirmed our commitment to civilian courts, worked to align our policies with the rule of law, and expanded our consultations with Congress.
Meanwhile, we strengthened our defenses -- hardening targets, tightening transportation security, giving law enforcement new tools to prevent terror. Most of these changes were sound. Some caused inconvenience. But some, like expanded surveillance, raised difficult questions about the balance that we strike between our interests in security and our values of privacy. And in some cases, I believe we compromised our basic values -- by using torture to interrogate our enemies, and detaining individuals in a way that ran counter to the rule of law.
So after I took office, we stepped up the war against al Qaeda but we also sought to change its course. We relentlessly targeted al Qaedas leadership. We ended the war in Iraq, and brought nearly 150,000 troops home. We pursued a new strategy in Afghanistan, and increased our training of Afghan forces. We unequivocally banned torture, affirmed our commitment to civilian courts, worked to align our policies with the rule of law, and expanded our consultations with Congress.
This is what he said immediately following the excerpt you offered:
That means that -- even after Boston -- we do not deport someone or throw somebody in prison in the absence of evidence. That means putting careful constraints on the tools the government uses to protect sensitive information, such as the state secrets doctrine. And that means finally having a strong Privacy and Civil Liberties Board to review those issues where our counterterrorism efforts and our values may come into tension.
The Justice Departments investigation of national security leaks offers a recent example of the challenges involved in striking the right balance between our security and our open society. As Commander-in-Chief, I believe we must keep information secret that protects our operations and our people in the field. To do so, we must enforce consequences for those who break the law and breach their commitment to protect classified information. But a free press is also essential for our democracy. Thats who we are. And Im troubled by the possibility that leak investigations may chill the investigative journalism that holds government accountable.
Journalists should not be at legal risk for doing their jobs. Our focus must be on those who break the law. And thats why Ive called on Congress to pass a media shield law to guard against government overreach. And Ive raised these issues with the Attorney General, who shares my concerns. So he has agreed to review existing Department of Justice guidelines governing investigations that involve reporters, and hell convene a group of media organizations to hear their concerns as part of that review. And Ive directed the Attorney General to report back to me by July 12th.
The Justice Departments investigation of national security leaks offers a recent example of the challenges involved in striking the right balance between our security and our open society. As Commander-in-Chief, I believe we must keep information secret that protects our operations and our people in the field. To do so, we must enforce consequences for those who break the law and breach their commitment to protect classified information. But a free press is also essential for our democracy. Thats who we are. And Im troubled by the possibility that leak investigations may chill the investigative journalism that holds government accountable.
Journalists should not be at legal risk for doing their jobs. Our focus must be on those who break the law. And thats why Ive called on Congress to pass a media shield law to guard against government overreach. And Ive raised these issues with the Attorney General, who shares my concerns. So he has agreed to review existing Department of Justice guidelines governing investigations that involve reporters, and hell convene a group of media organizations to hear their concerns as part of that review. And Ive directed the Attorney General to report back to me by July 12th.
It's obvious that he was thinking about, and acting on issues of reform across the board--in our conduct both domestically AND internationally-- well before anyone knew Snowden's name.
That's plainly evident if one reads the entire NDU speech.
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Everyone is under surveillance now, says whistleblower Edward Snowden [View all]
Jesus Malverde
May 2014
OP
I'm guessing the rationalization du jour will be a combination of A and B
Jesus Malverde
May 2014
#3
One day even the white knights with nothing to hide will come around to say no to the STAZI
Jesus Malverde
May 2014
#5
Yep, perhaps they just don't understand the technology employed. It is dangerous to
RKP5637
May 2014
#126
I've been saying every one was under surveillance for the last 40 years. The methods are
kelliekat44
May 2014
#136
And 'National Security' remains the lie to create the fear that creates support for throwing
sabrina 1
May 2014
#10
Lol! So it's okay for the US to do what Russia does now? I'm confused, I thought we didn't act
sabrina 1
May 2014
#12
Whistle Blower Edward Snowden faces the same persecution all Whistle Blowers are subjected
sabrina 1
May 2014
#19
Got anything to refute anything I said? Personal attacks have zero effect on me, I got used to them
sabrina 1
May 2014
#33
Speaking of "personal attacks" all you seem to be doing is telling me what you think I think and
MADem
May 2014
#42
This thread is about a Whistle Blower. Manning too was a Whistle Blower. YOU implied falsely that US
sabrina 1
May 2014
#45
Manning was not a whistle blower, those stolen documents were not read or vetted but given wholesale
MADem
May 2014
#46
Don't try to "guess" what you think people mean--you don't do a very good or accurate job at it.
MADem
May 2014
#61
I've been very clear. I'm not going to play a hypothetical game with dead children,
MADem
May 2014
#63
Oh, fachrissake. What part of Immunity From Prosecution are you having difficulty
MADem
May 2014
#119
Look, he could have gotten immunity without leaving, BEFORE Obama said anything.
MADem
May 2014
#179
Yes. I vaguely recall that when the Patriot Act was being drafted, there was quite a discussion
JDPriestly
May 2014
#108
No, I heard the wind up and the pitch of a tee ball coach, easing the ball over the plate
MADem
May 2014
#110
As I listend, Putin was quite taken aback. He even said something about not understanding the
JDPriestly
May 2014
#111
No he wasn't. Good grief. That pitch was right over the plate and Pootie hit it outta the park.
MADem
May 2014
#118
If any of the Proud Putin Puffer-Uppers would take the time to read those links, their heads would
MADem
May 2014
#25
Why, we don't live in Russia, we live HERE where we KNOW our government agencies are spying on
sabrina 1
May 2014
#29
Not sure where you drew the conclusion that I'm "more concerned about OTHER countries"
MADem
May 2014
#32
We know that Russia spies on its citizens. That is not new. Russia does not pride itself on its
JDPriestly
May 2014
#53
Now that post would make a superb thesis to start a thread... you hit the nail squarely on the head!
MADem
May 2014
#40
Correct me if I am wrong, but Obama doesn't even mention the NSA in that speech.
Vattel
May 2014
#125
I apologize for being unclear. What I should said is that Obama didn't mention the NSA by name.
Vattel
May 2014
#140
NSA isn't "law enforcement" like the United States Marine Corps isn't "law enforcement."
MADem
May 2014
#149
In everything you quoted, there is no mention of a national discussion on NSA surveillance.
Vattel
May 2014
#150
No, I don't agree with you because you keep moving the goalposts all over the field.
MADem
May 2014
#173
I don't agree with that. The "discussion" or "conversation" was already happening.
MADem
May 2014
#180
So you don't agree with me that Obama wasn't talking about the necessity of a national discussion
Vattel
May 2014
#181
The post you quoted is a demand for greater transparency, not the proving of a negative. /nt
Marr
May 2014
#100
That is the point. The specifics of these programs need to be more widely disclosed.
Marr
May 2014
#124
If you disagree that more transparency is needed, you disagree with Obama's public position.
Marr
May 2014
#139
If they use a phone, Verizon et al are 'collecting and storing their data'. So unless people
sabrina 1
May 2014
#15
Those are some radical ideas. Are you sure they didn't come from RT or Al Jazeera?
sabrina 1
May 2014
#31
must be our banks and our phone services who share our phone bill and our bank statements with
Sunlei
May 2014
#72
"But then he hypes it up into tall tales like this that his leaks don't support."
Maedhros
May 2014
#154
I don't think he needs to address all surveillance. That is not where he was working.
djean111
May 2014
#178