Everyone is under surveillance now, says whistleblower Edward Snowden

[Vattel]

175. I don't think you have followed the discussion here very closely.

MADem: His focus was on repairing abuses, not having a national chat about them.

Vattel: Great, you agree with me that the other poster was incorrect when she claimed that in the speech he was talking about the necessity of a national discussion about the NSA's surveillance programs.

MADem: No, I don't agree with you because you keep moving the goalposts all over the field.

Vattel: Huh? (scratches head)

The debate between me and the other poster was about whether Snowden's disclosures led to Obama's proposals for NSA reform. I think it is highly likely that the answer is yes. The other poster denied that Snowden's disclosures had anything to do with Obama's proposals for reform. Her only support for her claim was her further claim that in that speech prior to Snowden's disclosures Obama "was already publicly talking about the necessity for a national discussion about the surveillance program in place . . ." That claim is false and you seemed to agree with that when you said that "his focus was on repairing abuses, not on having a national chat about them." But now you deny that you agree with me and you just resort to accusing me of moving goalposts. You go on to move the goalposts by saying that that speech was part of a national discussion about national security issues. That is true but irrelevant. I see nothing in that speech that suggests that Obama was soon to unveil or even moving towards proposals for NSA reform. Maybe you do, but you might try to stay on point and discuss that rather than going off on irrelevant and kind of obnoxious tangents like the following:

MADem: It's different than having an angst-ridden "chat" with every Tom, Dick and Harry with an opinion but no knowledge of the nuts-and-bolts of the National Security milieu. The former methodology produces cogent policy, the latter is a feel-good exercise to shut people up.

Try reading more closely and you will be a more effective participant in discussions here.