General Discussion

intaglio

(8,170 posts)

232. And you need to get over the idea that consensual sex is always appropriate

Wed May 7, 2014, 12:58 PM

May 2014

You have observed that "I have said what feels like 100 times on these threads that both were equally culpable for their actions in this matter," that is a lie but you are unable to see it although many others are so capable. President Clinton abused his position, his fame, his marriage and the trust of a young woman all by being unable to say "No!" this simple failure makes him more culpable.

What you are saying, although you cannot admit it, is that the person in authority has a duty to say yes to every sexual offer that is made. You are saying that nothing matters apart from surrendering to the inappropriate desires of an immature person. You may not use those exact words but that is what is implied by your ignorant assault on simple ethics.

Similarly in respect of your claimed knowledge of Connie Hamzy, it is interesting that she admits having sex with rock musicians from the age of 15. Sorry but the guys who used her fulfill the definition of ephebophiles or borderline pedophiles and, something I'll repeat ad nauseam, the men did not have to say "Yes"

In respect of Ms Lewinski's age, being 22 does not mean she was emotionally mature - indeed the fact she was able to make the offer to President Clinton implies either that she was emotionally immature or that she sought a deeper relationship than that the President was willing to offer. In both cases he should have said "No". If it is "taking away her agency" (FFS) then by your standard any man she offered herself to was duty bound to say yes.

Your position is so ignorant, grossly unethical and unreasonable that I see no point in continuing to argue with you. Others can see the problem but you are blinded by hero worship.

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Monica Lewinsky made a poor choice when she had sex with a married man. [View all] MoonRiver May 2014 OP

I'm Still Not Convinced That the Whole Thing... harrose May 2014 #1

Funny you should use the word smear. After all, there's that stained Blue Dress... nt Xipe Totec May 2014 #4

Was the DNA from the dress tested? harrose May 2014 #5

You should really do your own research. But since you asked. Xipe Totec May 2014 #7

Any chance at all... harrose May 2014 #11

They did a lot of things, but apparently not that. nt Hekate May 2014 #13

OK, if you're so sure and trusting... harrose May 2014 #14

If the whole thing was made up, why wouldn't the President say he was innocent to this day? Reter May 2014 #92

There is a subtle difference between skepticism and willful ignorance. Xipe Totec May 2014 #194

What you are doing here is not skepticism. nt. NCTraveler May 2014 #209

You misspelled "troll." nt Dreamer Tatum May 2014 #218

Do you think that all those Republicans who were exposed for having affairs during that sabrina 1 May 2014 #169

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #70

Even if it wasn't, if there were no inappropriate relationship, Bill Clinton would not have karynnj May 2014 #221

This message was self-deleted by its author MoonRiver May 2014 #6

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #15

Nicely put. Xipe Totec May 2014 #196

Honestly, that sounds a bit far-fetched to me. Jackpine Radical May 2014 #8

Nixon reportedly had a Chinese mistress... DonViejo May 2014 #37

I read that as: Bush and I had a long-standing affair, etc. undeterred May 2014 #41

I resent that. Jackpine Radical May 2014 #75

I don't think Ford did either Reter May 2014 #96

I wouldn't care if he had sex with Moncia Lewinsky's goat - but that's preposterous Douglas Carpenter May 2014 #226

Exactly. distantearlywarning May 2014 #2

Yep, she could care less. And her sexy cover photo proves she just wants attention. MoonRiver May 2014 #3

Agreed. I posted in a related thread that if... 3catwoman3 May 2014 #56

Monica really can't win. Feron May 2014 #79

Thank you. 840high May 2014 #91

She was well aware that Bill was hitched. moriah May 2014 #103

and Bill just happened to forget he was hitched. Whisp May 2014 #119

Neither are victims here. Had she somehow not known he was married, it'd be different. moriah May 2014 #122

Has Bill Clinton agreed to a VF interview/photo shoot? MADem May 2014 #236

+1 million Louisiana1976 May 2014 #59

yet, Bill has been able to live a decent life Texasgal May 2014 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #12

There is such a thing as bad publicity ? Texasgal May 2014 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #22

Plus Dorian Gray May 2014 #39

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #53

wrong WRONG grasswire May 2014 #78

Agreed customerserviceguy May 2014 #146

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #167

WOW! Just WOW! Behind the Aegis May 2014 #171

See post #199 customerserviceguy May 2014 #200

"Monica was Jewish, did Israel get cut some kind of break that she blackmailed him into" alp227 May 2014 #173

Jury kept it too... apparently everyone has lost it tonight. Agschmid May 2014 #175

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #186

Hey there you should re-read your post... Agschmid May 2014 #174

I just picked one known aspect of her life customerserviceguy May 2014 #199

I appreciate your response, thank you for that. Agschmid May 2014 #215

I suppose that's true customerserviceguy May 2014 #241

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #164

Every president who screwed around was blackmailable. grasswire May 2014 #165

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #166

Somehow I would have guessed that about you. In_The_Wind May 2014 #204

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #237

It was a nation crisis!!!!!!!!! meanit May 2014 #203

YOU would never hold her to a higher standard Texasgal May 2014 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2014 #52

did you miss the part where Bill was humiliated and impeached? grasswire May 2014 #77

Yes, this.... Dorian Gray May 2014 #38

Good point! Texasgal May 2014 #45

I have good points Dorian Gray May 2014 #211

Talk to Ken Starr meanit May 2014 #205

And another slut-shaming thread. Le Taz Hot May 2014 #10

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #28

Well said. Louisiana1976 May 2014 #63

Monica is a "slut" but Bill, the serial adulterer is a "fool." Le Taz Hot May 2014 #68

Bill's a slut, too, and a fool because he *was* old enough to know better. However.... moriah May 2014 #106

Could we PLEASE Le Taz Hot May 2014 #109

There's not a male equivalent that has the same connotation sweetie. moriah May 2014 #111

So you perpetuate the mysogeny Le Taz Hot May 2014 #114

Reading the passive aggression in your posts is like having my own nails ground on a chalkboard. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #150

It's passive-aggressive to say that a person who chooses to mess around with someone who's married.. moriah May 2014 #152

Killing someone with kindness is one of the purest forms of passive aggression. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #153

I call men, women, children, dogs, cats, and plants "sweetie". Don't feel special. moriah May 2014 #154

It is not the word but the usage that I speak of. Which you demonstrate succinctly. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #155

Since you fail to take the high road, I shall. moriah May 2014 #157

As I observed elsewhere intaglio May 2014 #172

Yeah -- and either of them could have said it. Hence, both in the wrong for not! moriah May 2014 #178

So adolescents who "choose" to have sex with adult teachers or priests or rock stars intaglio May 2014 #182

EXCUSE you? moriah May 2014 #185

The issue is power intaglio May 2014 #193

OMG, you mean that my ex who was my team lead took advantage of me? He had Teh Power! moriah May 2014 #220

There is a HUGE difference between you and your ex and the PRESIDENT of the US and an intern karynnj May 2014 #222

Of course. So is the difference between consensual adultery between grown-ups and pedophillia. moriah May 2014 #223

Please link to any post - ever - that I have made that equates pedophellia and adultery karynnj May 2014 #228

Please read the edit where I thought you were the person I was talking to. thanks. moriah May 2014 #229

So, by your own admission you were not an immature intern intaglio May 2014 #230

Did Bill? No. I read the books. moriah May 2014 #231

And you need to get over the idea that consensual sex is always appropriate intaglio May 2014 #232

*boggle* Of course it wasn't appropriate. He's married. Duh. moriah May 2014 #234

As if Bill didn't have any Texasgal May 2014 #74

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #93

So what does that make Bill Clinton? Le Taz Hot May 2014 #101

There is a post around here somewhere about Monica's sexual history Whisp May 2014 #125

Is that the same one that brought up her Le Taz Hot May 2014 #129

Yep JanMichael May 2014 #188

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #16

Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. eom MoonRiver May 2014 #17

What is up with all of this the slut shaming? waddirum May 2014 #40

You call it slut shaming -- I, like the OP, call it poor choice-making rocktivity May 2014 #58

I agree, you made a poor choice when you decided to intaglio May 2014 #177

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #95

There it is. Le Taz Hot May 2014 #102

The problem is when the two adults are from different levels of a workplace hierarchy. alp227 May 2014 #181

Let's see what's in the OP: Slut shaming, female hysteria myth...hmmm what else... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #18

Monica is the one who's putting herself out there. MoonRiver May 2014 #20

She's kept silent for more than one and a half decades and is finally telling her story... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #24

I didn't state or imply that she is a slut. MoonRiver May 2014 #36

Let's see, you called her delusional and completely undeserving of sympathy or consideration. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #46

I'm not angry. Not at all. MoonRiver May 2014 #49

The issue here is that Texasgal May 2014 #51

Didn't I state that he also made a poor choice? MoonRiver May 2014 #55

Your OP focuses on Monica Texasgal May 2014 #71

Yes, because she's making herself news. MoonRiver May 2014 #85

You're angry and afraid this may damage future elections for Democrats. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #60

I don't care what she does. My OP was simply an observation. MoonRiver May 2014 #86

There is no such thing as an OP that is simply an observation. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #144

My observation was that she made a poor choice that resulted in consequences MoonRiver May 2014 #190

No. That's not quite true. She has spoken. She did an interview with Barbara Walters, and she MADem May 2014 #184

As if Bill wont? Texasgal May 2014 #25

Don't you know? TroglodyteScholar May 2014 #26

Oh what a pant load. Texasgal May 2014 #32

I suppose it never occurred to you that she might have had sex with him... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #35

Failing to put any amount of responsibility on a guy you idol worship intaglio May 2014 #179

I do not care. I didn't care then, I don't care now. truebluegreen May 2014 #19

Thank you JustAnotherGen May 2014 #189

To be kind malaise May 2014 #23

Malaise, you always know how to get to the heart of the situation! MoonRiver May 2014 #27

My brother was visiting recently malaise May 2014 #42

You're frank with a fun twist! MoonRiver May 2014 #43

LOL malaise May 2014 #47

Well stated. misterhighwasted May 2014 #30

OMG! Do we really need links about a long DEAD story? chillfactor May 2014 #29

If it's an "old story" customerserviceguy May 2014 #148

Who gives a shit anymore? Honestly. That was 17 years ago! Neoma May 2014 #31

Geez... no shit! Texasgal May 2014 #34

I know partially why... Neoma May 2014 #44

in any other context Niceguy1 May 2014 #183

And that's the entire world's business STILL because? Neoma May 2014 #210

If Hillary runs, I wonder if she'll write a book and cash in LittleBlue May 2014 #33

She and Hillary should appear on Oprah together, and hug each other and stuff. Nye Bevan May 2014 #62

There once was a gal named Lewinsky Nye Bevan May 2014 #48

Ah yes, the New Yorker limerick contest winners, right? Blue Owl May 2014 #54

....... Louisiana1976 May 2014 #67

Holy shi- LittleBlue May 2014 #98

Jury Says Leave It. Skip Intro May 2014 #121

Thanks. Whoopsie by Juror 7 there, looked like he or she wanted to hide. Nye Bevan May 2014 #137

Speaking of W Bobbie Jo May 2014 #141

I remember that one. I thought it was funny at the time. Enthusiast May 2014 #187

*** Warren DeMontague May 2014 #168

Yeah... It's All The "Slut's" Fault... Cause Men Just Can't Help Themselves Don'tcha Know... WillyT May 2014 #57

I guess you have to admit there was a teeny tiny imbalance of power in that relationship, Nye Bevan May 2014 #61

Word !!! WillyT May 2014 #65

...^ that 840high May 2014 #94

He should take responsibility for his behavior. distantearlywarning May 2014 #97

What Consequences ??? - IT's NOBODY Else's Business !!! WillyT May 2014 #99

Not if he's the president of the US. distantearlywarning May 2014 #100

She Was 19, And An Intern... He Was The Most Powerful Person On The Planet... WillyT May 2014 #105

she was 21 and an employee dsc May 2014 #131

Thank You For The Correction... Makes All The Difference, No ??? WillyT May 2014 #134

well to be fair a 21 year old is considered a full adult dsc May 2014 #135

Depends On The State... And I Ain't Defending Anyone... My Problem Is... WillyT May 2014 #138

In no state can a 19 year old drink dsc May 2014 #139

Shes disgusting. I remeber she had a line of handbags and she was promoting them on HSN SummerSnow May 2014 #64

They only went after Bill? Texasgal May 2014 #72

Yes, the conservatives went after Bill Clinton. if they went after Monica it was for show. SummerSnow May 2014 #104

BS, Monica Lewinsky's life was ruined while Hill used it as a springboard for her political career krawhitham May 2014 #66

Ruined? How? nt Logical May 2014 #89

So you agree with this idiot? moriah May 2014 #110

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #69

Agreed otohara May 2014 #80

I only posted in this thread b/c her post was hidden RainDog May 2014 #82

It made her millions Gore1FL May 2014 #73

She sure did leave the White House... The Midway Rebel May 2014 #83

I salute you! Gore1FL May 2014 #88

Clinton was the one that made the mistake.. Feron May 2014 #76

Feminists Don't Slut Shame RainDog May 2014 #81

Cherchez la femme? marshall May 2014 #84

LOL RainDog May 2014 #87

While I disagree with the post you responded to... what, Bill's just so good women's panties.... moriah May 2014 #124

cherchez la femme RainDog May 2014 #128

I Was a Jury Member for Your Comment mckara May 2014 #143

someone alerted on my comment? RainDog May 2014 #147

She wasn't a part of the affair so she was completely blameless Warpy May 2014 #159

what does that have to do with what I said? RainDog May 2014 #163

Because men clearly have no free will of their own. cyberswede May 2014 #116

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #208

True, but the cheatee is not as bad as the cheater Reter May 2014 #90

I'll always give the benefit of the doubt that they were hoodwinked into it. moriah May 2014 #107

Monica is a woman who wheniwasincongress May 2014 #108

You really think she had no responsibility for what happened? moriah May 2014 #118

I said at the time, she should have moved to France Warpy May 2014 #112

I wonder why she is inserting herself back into the spotlight after all these years. Beausoir May 2014 #113

For all you know RainDog May 2014 #115

What nonsense. Are you claiming that Hillary forced Monica to get all dressed up in virginal white Beausoir May 2014 #120

Since Skinner already posted the same thing RainDog May 2014 #123

So, you believe that Hillary forced Lewinsky to dress up in a white dress and give an interview? Beausoir May 2014 #133

give it a break RainDog May 2014 #136

Her name has bobbed to the surface lately customerserviceguy May 2014 #151

I'll say the same thing about Clinton that I said about Tiger Woods: Iggo May 2014 #117

Apparently four out of seven democrats agree... Leave Monica Alone!! lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #126

Slut shaming is despicable, no matter who the target is. nt cyberswede May 2014 #142

At least one of those was a new troll. Another was actually someone calling out slut shaming. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #149

She went to the White House boasting to her friends of earning presidential knee-pads... lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #217

She did make a poor choice, regardless of what the Linda Tripp's may be saying. madinmaryland May 2014 #127

Not a victim. Not then, not now. Zambero May 2014 #130

That scheming temptress. That evil seductress. That brazen hussy. Nye Bevan May 2014 #145

It doesn't matter if she came on to him, he still should have said no. moriah May 2014 #161

She had sex with the President rudolph the red May 2014 #132

I wonder this: Why do people say that Monica is a rival to Hillary? Raine1967 May 2014 #140

This message was self-deleted by its author Kablooie May 2014 #156

Her interview was with Vanity Fair marshall May 2014 #202

The responses in this thread are eye-opening... YoungDemCA May 2014 #158

The "shameful" part was Clinton's pathetic attempt to cover his sorry ass. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #160

DU Rec MohRokTah May 2014 #162

This thread is a disaster. Multiple hidden posts, and failed silly alerts, too. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #170

What is it about these threads ? dipsydoodle May 2014 #192

It's a perfect storm for DU - a Dem president about whom opinion is divided muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #195

That was why I didn't post the subject dipsydoodle May 2014 #198

They didn't have sex. MADem May 2014 #176

She kept the blue dress...I always found that fascinating. nt msanthrope May 2014 #197

She knew what happened in the case of other 'bimbo eruptions' customerserviceguy May 2014 #201

It definitely shows foresight on her part...that she intended for her msanthrope May 2014 #207

I think she was used by Tripp, etc. RainDog May 2014 #213

Coulter wasn't just a 'pixie.' She wrote the definition of oral sex that Paula Jones's msanthrope May 2014 #216

Clearly, ML was used customerserviceguy May 2014 #242

Quite a stretch from a corsage pressed between the pages of the family encyclopedia, certainly! MADem May 2014 #235

Let he who is without sin etc. LadyHawkAZ May 2014 #180

You know, she was 22 when she did all those things steve2470 May 2014 #191

I hope Monica writes a book and makes the millions she deserves hack89 May 2014 #206

The fact that this crap is even being discussed on a liberal board Evergreen Emerald May 2014 #212

How is "the real victims, as everybody knows, were Hillary and Chelsea Clinton" "feeding into ... muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #233

How easy it is to get DU all worked up over something MineralMan May 2014 #214

Dave Chapelle Calista241 May 2014 #219

She's an intern, and he's the fucking president, and that's the subject line you go with? Orsino May 2014 #224

AS long as they don't scare the horses - I don't care who has sex with who - Douglas Carpenter May 2014 #225

++ FarCenter May 2014 #227

But to the OP's point, maybe Hillary and Chelsea cared. MH1 May 2014 #238

I have no idea what you mean when you say, " she should acknowledge that she did wrong." Douglas Carpenter May 2014 #239

And it would have been left to them back then, MoonRiver May 2014 #240