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Behind the Aegis

(56,226 posts)

24. Interesting points.

Fri May 9, 2014, 02:36 PM

May 2014

However, as a black woman, you have a vested interest in ending racism/sexism. Do you really want the perpetrators to be solely responsible for "fixing" the problem? I agree it is a burden, an unfair one to be sure. I agree the dominant cultures should shoulder more of the solution, but without input from the affected, it could become a bigger issue. As someone who is gay and Jewish, I don't want heterosexuals and non-Jews deciding for me what is homophobia/heterosexism and anti-Semitism. They can have their say, but they need to hear my voice too. As correct thinking as I can be on issues affecting the AA community, I am not one, I never will be, and no matter how many family members or friends I have in that community, I will never fully understand what it is to be AA in this world. So, I need to hear from AA.

I think some of this comes down to having to admit, some people will never get it.

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"Lets work together to end racism" is more constructive than "whites need to check their privilege". [View all] Nye Bevan May 2014 OP

"Let's watch out for one another" is a much less offensive sign at the swimming pool than... LanternWaste May 2014 #1

Becoming aware of the problem is, however, a good first step. The next step needs to be how to uppityperson May 2014 #2

I believe step 9 Capt. Obvious May 2014 #9

Sad, but yeah. Every thread has a sad ass wanting an apology because someone not white was rude once bettyellen May 2014 #11

thread win! Whisp May 2014 #17

Bingo. Gormy Cuss May 2014 #27

There's a higher power that determines how to fight racism Capt. Obvious May 2014 #28

ROFL gollygee May 2014 #35

DUZY. bettyellen May 2014 #36

Ah, I know that one. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #125

+1000 ismnotwasm May 2014 #141

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #105

And of course white people's opinions should be prioritized in discussions about racism redqueen May 2014 #3

White peoples opinions are paramount, especially the uninformed and self interested ones. bettyellen May 2014 #13

do you personally know any white people who have no self-interest? Supersedeas May 2014 #33

Did you not know that there is a difference in some and none? There actually is. bettyellen May 2014 #37

I also understand the definition of "any" (meaning at least one)...not all as you imply Supersedeas May 2014 #83

"self interested"? You do realize you're walking straight into the white nationalist trap right? alp227 May 2014 #210

And that has nothing to do with what I said, lol. bettyellen May 2014 #219

If only someone would explain how acknowledging privilege doesn't mean "you're a bad person" NuclearDem May 2014 #14

Exactly. This shit has been explained to death, redqueen May 2014 #178

Would in your face insults and accusations be more productive? badtoworse May 2014 #15

You should ask the White men on this board who disagree with you if that is what THEY get VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #45

If white males don't have "full ownership" of the problem (racism/sexism) then who does? n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #164

I don't see the problems as being owned by a particular demographic group. badtoworse May 2014 #170

I agree insofar as we all need to do our best to be part of the solution, whatever that means on an nomorenomore08 May 2014 #199

I don't see the Obamas, Hillary Clinton and Liz Warren using the phrase "white privilege" very much. Nye Bevan May 2014 #18

I don't see them using the phrase "Cap'n Crunch" much either. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Squinch May 2014 #76

*snicker* cyberswede May 2014 #96

. Squinch May 2014 #99

Redqueen, the way you describe it, it finally makes sense to me! Squinch May 2014 #73

"We women and minorities....." As if all women and People of Color agreed with you 100%.....EOM. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #135

Well of course they do. What are you, some kind of MRA? name not needed May 2014 #138

What, are you speaking for them now? Squinch May 2014 #140

Well i agree with you if that makes a difference. bravenak May 2014 #142

Well, but what do we know? We should ask Joe how we should feel. Squinch May 2014 #144

I know, right? bravenak May 2014 #145

It's such a relief not to have to have opinions about our lives, isn't it? Phew! Squinch May 2014 #146

And to think of all the time i wasted when i could have been learning my place. bravenak May 2014 #149

Well we better learn our places quickly. Whenever we express our opinions they have no choice but Squinch May 2014 #173

There there, i got you. bravenak May 2014 #180

This message was self-deleted by its author AverageJoe90 May 2014 #184

You can feel how you feel, but why is it important? kwassa May 2014 #190

I love the deletes. bravenak May 2014 #207

Considering he has me on ignore .... kwassa May 2014 #221

as if they all can't relate Supersedeas May 2014 #211

Not what I said, or implied, to be honest. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #213

These threads are an embarrassment to DU. redqueen May 2014 #177

You are certainly not required to consider anyone a potential ally. redgreenandblue May 2014 #172

the potential for alliances and division can turn on the rhetoric Supersedeas May 2014 #212

It depends on what the purpose of the discussion is el_bryanto May 2014 #4

Precisely BainsBane May 2014 #10

And did you require someone telling you to "check your privilege" Nye Bevan May 2014 #22

Is your objection to that specific phrase or to the message behind it? nt el_bryanto May 2014 #40

If it is something that I am doing without being aware of it - Ms. Toad May 2014 #42

I've been schooled several times by black people when I said something stupid wryter2000 May 2014 #59

me too! and I learned a lot. Wonder why peeps here think they know it all..... bettyellen May 2014 #94

No one had to tell me BainsBane May 2014 #43

"Every time you post about how people shouldn't talk about white privilege, you announce loudly that kwassa May 2014 #112

+1 nt laundry_queen May 2014 #121

How many times and in how many ways does that need to be said before it sinks in? redqueen May 2014 #179

I didn't have to "check mine" I already recognized it..... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #77

Um... Yes. Of course. Squinch May 2014 #81

We have a winner! wryter2000 May 2014 #54

Well said - Ms. Toad May 2014 #92

You have a point, but I don't see why it should be limited to Supersedeas May 2014 #218

The first is a goal the second is PART of the mechanics on HOW to do the first.... uponit7771 May 2014 #5

I know that feeling, even if I'm not black. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #126

Whatever makes white people feel better Capt. Obvious May 2014 #6

Well, white people are a fairly significant portion of the electorate. Nye Bevan May 2014 #20

They already vote Republican YoungDemCA May 2014 #44

+1 million Louisiana1976 May 2014 #66

Tens of millions of white people voted for Obama in 2012. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #68

...do you think they would be driven away from voting for democrats... cyberswede May 2014 #123

I'm a middle aged white male and I have never voted for a The Second Stone May 2014 #137

Minorities are becoming a larger portion of the electorate. Does it make sense to piss THEM off? Squinch May 2014 #84

No. Let's leave that to the Republicans. They're pretty good at it. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #111

Yes, I know you think that. Squinch May 2014 #118

Do you think they will stop voting for democrats due to semantics? cyberswede May 2014 #124

LOL. Exactly so. Lex May 2014 #151

Hmm JustAnotherGen May 2014 #7

Interesting points. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #24

You nailed it with this JustAnotherGen May 2014 #31

I fully understand what you are saying about "dropping the rope." Behind the Aegis May 2014 #41

Hell yeah! bravenak May 2014 #147

the end doesn't begin until privilege is fully acknowledged and fully understood Supersedeas May 2014 #8

I agree. The first step is to admit there's a problem with white privilege. Louisiana1976 May 2014 #63

what the lily privilege is...and whenever (if ever) the lily privilege maybe irrelevant Supersedeas May 2014 #86

Why? NuclearDem May 2014 #12

Ideally, that would be the best way. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #16

...because black folk (and other non-white folk) etherealtruth May 2014 #19

I like President Obama's approach to the issue. Nye Bevan May 2014 #21

President Obama represents the entire country etherealtruth May 2014 #30

Sure, but it's not the only valid one. You need an MLK *and* a Malcolm X, so to speak. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #165

Only thing is, Malcolm X's original stances...... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #188

I'm not sure it's quite that simple. More moderate, conciliatory voices certainly are/were valid and nomorenomore08 May 2014 #198

Yeah, there was a good point you made there, TBH. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #200

That statement essentially negates any responsibility from the side that benefits most from it. M0rpheus May 2014 #23

I would humbly suggest not rushing to use the words "us" and "them". Nye Bevan May 2014 #25

LOL, suddenly we are colorblind. Nice 180...... bettyellen May 2014 #38

Isn't that the whole goal? B2G May 2014 #47

No Capt. Obvious May 2014 #49

argh, you beat me to it by a minute! Revanchist May 2014 #51

"Colorblind" is also part of the problem Revanchist May 2014 #50

We can acknowledge each other's differences while still being "color blind" in a way. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #182

Dr. King said he was waiting for a world that was color blind gollygee May 2014 #185

That's what he wished for, isn't it? AverageJoe90 May 2014 #186

His words are often misrepresented gollygee May 2014 #187

"He wanted changes to happen to make that non-judgement be a reality." Basically what I just said... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #189

You don't want changes gollygee May 2014 #192

"You don't want changes" Talk about a real 180. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #193

You are one of the few progressives to think that "white privilege" is a myth. kwassa May 2014 #197

This JustAnotherGen May 2014 #203

Okay, but I didn't argue against that, TBH.....nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #214

That wasn't directed at you JustAnotherGen May 2014 #217

"Color blindness" is a problem, actually. NuclearDem May 2014 #52

Apparently, treating people based upon their character rather than their skin color is racist, Nye Bevan May 2014 #55

Did you c/p that from a Roberts Court ruling? Capt. Obvious May 2014 #56

and that idiotic Princeton student.... yeah it's a RW talking point for ignoring race issues bettyellen May 2014 #62

"character rather than skin color" did not originate in the Roberts court (nt) Nye Bevan May 2014 #108

"character rather than skin color" is avoiding the white privilege issue. kwassa May 2014 #114

Indeed. It's missing the key words "will one day." NuclearDem May 2014 #127

I know, right? B2G May 2014 #60

You know what? I've read others of your posts. You are not an unintelligent person. Squinch May 2014 #89

Yes. A thousand times yes. nt (P.S., see post 182 for further clarification). AverageJoe90 May 2014 #181

Our interests intersect in many places. M0rpheus May 2014 #39

God knows I am no longer looking for all men here to live up to the values they profess to have. bettyellen May 2014 #93

FRAMES!!!! Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #26

And doors. And ducks ismnotwasm May 2014 #155

AWESOME !!! Maybe we can get somewhere now. I think we have everything we need, right? Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #162

Church door ismnotwasm May 2014 #168

It has just the right amount of "irony" for the situation, yes. Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #175

But not nearly as flame-baity. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #29

flamebait defined BainsBane May 2014 #67

What is the point of this baiting? Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #69

You don't get it BainsBane May 2014 #75

Thankfully, you and the crew are here to explain it all to me. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #95

You declared the topic flamebait BainsBane May 2014 #104

Now you're telling what a proper opinion is? Get over yourself. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #113

certain forms of argumentation causes some people to get so fed up Supersedeas May 2014 #90

I feel the same about the Snowden stuff BainsBane May 2014 #101

Actually listening to the viewpoints of the socially marginalized is more constructive.... YoungDemCA May 2014 #32

It is an opinion I agree with 100% etherealtruth May 2014 #46

+1 gollygee May 2014 #48

+A truckload of plusses. Squinch May 2014 #91

+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #132

Well, it's an opinion. Iggo May 2014 #34

What about tan people? snooper2 May 2014 #53

They can have their white privilege and do something with it Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #57

It's not about being constructive anymore, if it ever was. Shandris May 2014 #58

your blythe dismissal of "whatever social justice once meant".... Never something that interested bettyellen May 2014 #65

Oh my, what a proper scolding. Shandris May 2014 #70

it's a direct quote from your post, so just walk backwards out of the thread and maybe no one else bettyellen May 2014 #74

A direct quote? Shandris May 2014 #80

Your "Whatever 'Social Justice' once meant" betrays prior ignorance and disinterest in social bettyellen May 2014 #82

Ahh, I get it. You don't read what I write well, or don't interpret it well, or something... Shandris May 2014 #87

"Whatever 'Social Justice' once meant" betrays your disinterest and dismissive attitude bettyellen May 2014 #85

You can 'note' whatever you'd like. Shandris May 2014 #97

Nailed it!! Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #71

Exactly right. Waiting For Everyman May 2014 #120

So.. white people are still racists because POC are too nasty? Their problems are real but ignored bettyellen May 2014 #183

I don't agree. People *do* need to check their privilege. RedCappedBandit May 2014 #61

This just cracks me up! peace13 May 2014 #64

I have been one of the biggest advocates of Obamacare on this discussion board. Nye Bevan May 2014 #106

I was not saying that you were calling HC a privilege. peace13 May 2014 #223

Because the world is dominated by whitie Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #72

WOW. A "poor me, I'm not the top dog in Cambodia" post! I actually should save this link becuse bettyellen May 2014 #78

LOL< you took that serious Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #79

Oh, you got me. I have seen the same sentiments posted here, and so bettyellen May 2014 #88

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #98

Welcome to DU. redqueen May 2014 #100

You've made the OP's point perfectly. NuclearDem May 2014 #103

Who is this "they" you know so much about... cyberswede May 2014 #136

So this is your attempt to end racism? Starry Messenger May 2014 #102

Hmmm. Perhaps knocking on white people's doors and angrily confronting them about their "privilege" Nye Bevan May 2014 #110

This is a discussion forum on political issues. This is not your front door. kwassa May 2014 #116

You seem to be saying that you would not use this approach in the real world. Nye Bevan May 2014 #130

Not me. I don't avoid this discussion anywhere. kwassa May 2014 #153

This is more like you knocking on black people's doors Starry Messenger May 2014 #119

Hmmm. The actual quote in my OP was "let's work together to end racism". Nye Bevan May 2014 #129

It's called subtext, "nye" Starry Messenger May 2014 #167

Well, to address racism, you have to address the reality of privilege. Scootaloo May 2014 #107

I like the way that President Obama addresses racial issues. Nye Bevan May 2014 #109

President Obama avoids addressing racial issues as much as possible. kwassa May 2014 #117

You are right, it was more "anti-Trayvon Martin." morningfog May 2014 #150

Certainly correct on that! AverageJoe90 May 2014 #216

except that whites who are usually committed to end racism La Lioness Priyanka May 2014 #115

Funny how it works out that way etherealtruth May 2014 #122

That's because they've already been led to understand it. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #131

Unfortunately, it kinda seems like you haven't looked in all the right places, TBH(no offense). AverageJoe90 May 2014 #191

prove your assertion. kwassa May 2014 #194

Racism, Discrimination fredamae May 2014 #128

For many it is the only way to feel good about themselves...... whistler162 May 2014 #133

This. This times infinity. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #134

Birds of a feather. Racism deniers. kwassa May 2014 #154

Are Obama and Biden "racism deniers" Nye Bevan May 2014 #156

They haven't denied white privilege, like you have. kwassa May 2014 #157

Wait..... in which thread did I "deny white privilege"? Nye Bevan May 2014 #158

What are you doing now but denying white privilege? kwassa May 2014 #159

Stating that saying "whites need to check their privilege" is not the most constructive approach Nye Bevan May 2014 #160

What is a constructive way to talk about white privilege? kwassa May 2014 #161

The phrase 'check their privilege' must have come from PatrickforO May 2014 #139

I think I see your point. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #196

+100. n/t Skip Intro May 2014 #143

You are still hung up on this? We cannot end racism UNTIL whites check their privilege. morningfog May 2014 #148

Fuck constructive. We are long overdue to deconstruct racism in this country. morningfog May 2014 #152

It is Way Past Time. Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #176

how depressing to see 15 recommends (so far) on a white people double down thread. m-lekktor May 2014 #163

Not sure if you have lurked and are familiar with the players here, but if it is any comfort Squinch May 2014 #174

I hate to say this, but we're not the ones who have a cluelessness problem. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #195

Sure.. bravenak May 2014 #201

Awesome! JustAnotherGen May 2014 #205

Me too, sometimes it is too much. bravenak May 2014 #206

Ut oh JustAnotherGen May 2014 #209

Oh, yes you are. You don't begin to understand the concept you are arguing against. kwassa May 2014 #222

Well, good luck with this one Nye! Eleanors38 May 2014 #166

Yes. Let's. No problem. Except when the gratuitous, unconscious playaz deny they motives. ancianita May 2014 #169

Is that because all races kept slaves in America? Because all races have shared in the power WinkyDink May 2014 #171

The concept of "White Privilege" is threatening to some people Maedhros May 2014 #202

"Let's work together to end racism" is more constructive than "white privilege doesn't exist!!11!" fishwax May 2014 #204

I concur (nt) Nye Bevan May 2014 #208

True, though I'd argue that the latter is mainly a reaction to some of the nastier stuff............ AverageJoe90 May 2014 #215

Nah, it's an immediate response out of the gate to pretty much any thread on the subject n/t fishwax May 2014 #220