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Behind the Aegis

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41. I fully understand what you are saying about "dropping the rope."

Fri May 9, 2014, 02:56 PM

May 2014

Time and time again, I have had to explain to some of the same posters the difference between "sexual orientation" and "sexual preference" and still it doesn't sink in! So, I cut my losses and move on, hoping someone who made the same error was reading and did learn something.

I was thinking about this last night in the shower (I do lots of thinking there), and I came to the conclusion that the reason some aren't getting it is because they are being defensive. So, I pondered as to why they were being defensive and came to this conclusion: for the first time, for many of them, they aren't in the majority (of opinion) for the first time in their lives and they feel attacked and the irony of it is exactly how many of us (depending on our minority status) have felt for years, sometimes our entire lives. Basically, the shoe is on the other foot and they don't like the fit.

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"Lets work together to end racism" is more constructive than "whites need to check their privilege". [View all] Nye Bevan May 2014 OP

"Let's watch out for one another" is a much less offensive sign at the swimming pool than... LanternWaste May 2014 #1

Becoming aware of the problem is, however, a good first step. The next step needs to be how to uppityperson May 2014 #2

I believe step 9 Capt. Obvious May 2014 #9

Sad, but yeah. Every thread has a sad ass wanting an apology because someone not white was rude once bettyellen May 2014 #11

thread win! Whisp May 2014 #17

Bingo. Gormy Cuss May 2014 #27

There's a higher power that determines how to fight racism Capt. Obvious May 2014 #28

ROFL gollygee May 2014 #35

DUZY. bettyellen May 2014 #36

Ah, I know that one. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #125

+1000 ismnotwasm May 2014 #141

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #105

And of course white people's opinions should be prioritized in discussions about racism redqueen May 2014 #3

White peoples opinions are paramount, especially the uninformed and self interested ones. bettyellen May 2014 #13

do you personally know any white people who have no self-interest? Supersedeas May 2014 #33

Did you not know that there is a difference in some and none? There actually is. bettyellen May 2014 #37

I also understand the definition of "any" (meaning at least one)...not all as you imply Supersedeas May 2014 #83

"self interested"? You do realize you're walking straight into the white nationalist trap right? alp227 May 2014 #210

And that has nothing to do with what I said, lol. bettyellen May 2014 #219

If only someone would explain how acknowledging privilege doesn't mean "you're a bad person" NuclearDem May 2014 #14

Exactly. This shit has been explained to death, redqueen May 2014 #178

Would in your face insults and accusations be more productive? badtoworse May 2014 #15

You should ask the White men on this board who disagree with you if that is what THEY get VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #45

If white males don't have "full ownership" of the problem (racism/sexism) then who does? n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #164

I don't see the problems as being owned by a particular demographic group. badtoworse May 2014 #170

I agree insofar as we all need to do our best to be part of the solution, whatever that means on an nomorenomore08 May 2014 #199

I don't see the Obamas, Hillary Clinton and Liz Warren using the phrase "white privilege" very much. Nye Bevan May 2014 #18

I don't see them using the phrase "Cap'n Crunch" much either. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Squinch May 2014 #76

*snicker* cyberswede May 2014 #96

. Squinch May 2014 #99

Redqueen, the way you describe it, it finally makes sense to me! Squinch May 2014 #73

"We women and minorities....." As if all women and People of Color agreed with you 100%.....EOM. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #135

Well of course they do. What are you, some kind of MRA? name not needed May 2014 #138

What, are you speaking for them now? Squinch May 2014 #140

Well i agree with you if that makes a difference. bravenak May 2014 #142

Well, but what do we know? We should ask Joe how we should feel. Squinch May 2014 #144

I know, right? bravenak May 2014 #145

It's such a relief not to have to have opinions about our lives, isn't it? Phew! Squinch May 2014 #146

And to think of all the time i wasted when i could have been learning my place. bravenak May 2014 #149

Well we better learn our places quickly. Whenever we express our opinions they have no choice but Squinch May 2014 #173

There there, i got you. bravenak May 2014 #180

This message was self-deleted by its author AverageJoe90 May 2014 #184

You can feel how you feel, but why is it important? kwassa May 2014 #190

I love the deletes. bravenak May 2014 #207

Considering he has me on ignore .... kwassa May 2014 #221

as if they all can't relate Supersedeas May 2014 #211

Not what I said, or implied, to be honest. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #213

These threads are an embarrassment to DU. redqueen May 2014 #177

You are certainly not required to consider anyone a potential ally. redgreenandblue May 2014 #172

the potential for alliances and division can turn on the rhetoric Supersedeas May 2014 #212

It depends on what the purpose of the discussion is el_bryanto May 2014 #4

Precisely BainsBane May 2014 #10

And did you require someone telling you to "check your privilege" Nye Bevan May 2014 #22

Is your objection to that specific phrase or to the message behind it? nt el_bryanto May 2014 #40

If it is something that I am doing without being aware of it - Ms. Toad May 2014 #42

I've been schooled several times by black people when I said something stupid wryter2000 May 2014 #59

me too! and I learned a lot. Wonder why peeps here think they know it all..... bettyellen May 2014 #94

No one had to tell me BainsBane May 2014 #43

"Every time you post about how people shouldn't talk about white privilege, you announce loudly that kwassa May 2014 #112

+1 nt laundry_queen May 2014 #121

How many times and in how many ways does that need to be said before it sinks in? redqueen May 2014 #179

I didn't have to "check mine" I already recognized it..... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #77

Um... Yes. Of course. Squinch May 2014 #81

We have a winner! wryter2000 May 2014 #54

Well said - Ms. Toad May 2014 #92

You have a point, but I don't see why it should be limited to Supersedeas May 2014 #218

The first is a goal the second is PART of the mechanics on HOW to do the first.... uponit7771 May 2014 #5

I know that feeling, even if I'm not black. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #126

Whatever makes white people feel better Capt. Obvious May 2014 #6

Well, white people are a fairly significant portion of the electorate. Nye Bevan May 2014 #20

They already vote Republican YoungDemCA May 2014 #44

+1 million Louisiana1976 May 2014 #66

Tens of millions of white people voted for Obama in 2012. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #68

...do you think they would be driven away from voting for democrats... cyberswede May 2014 #123

I'm a middle aged white male and I have never voted for a The Second Stone May 2014 #137

Minorities are becoming a larger portion of the electorate. Does it make sense to piss THEM off? Squinch May 2014 #84

No. Let's leave that to the Republicans. They're pretty good at it. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #111

Yes, I know you think that. Squinch May 2014 #118

Do you think they will stop voting for democrats due to semantics? cyberswede May 2014 #124

LOL. Exactly so. Lex May 2014 #151

Hmm JustAnotherGen May 2014 #7

Interesting points. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #24

You nailed it with this JustAnotherGen May 2014 #31

I fully understand what you are saying about "dropping the rope." Behind the Aegis May 2014 #41

Hell yeah! bravenak May 2014 #147

the end doesn't begin until privilege is fully acknowledged and fully understood Supersedeas May 2014 #8

I agree. The first step is to admit there's a problem with white privilege. Louisiana1976 May 2014 #63

what the lily privilege is...and whenever (if ever) the lily privilege maybe irrelevant Supersedeas May 2014 #86

Why? NuclearDem May 2014 #12

Ideally, that would be the best way. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #16

...because black folk (and other non-white folk) etherealtruth May 2014 #19

I like President Obama's approach to the issue. Nye Bevan May 2014 #21

President Obama represents the entire country etherealtruth May 2014 #30

Sure, but it's not the only valid one. You need an MLK *and* a Malcolm X, so to speak. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #165

Only thing is, Malcolm X's original stances...... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #188

I'm not sure it's quite that simple. More moderate, conciliatory voices certainly are/were valid and nomorenomore08 May 2014 #198

Yeah, there was a good point you made there, TBH. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #200

That statement essentially negates any responsibility from the side that benefits most from it. M0rpheus May 2014 #23

I would humbly suggest not rushing to use the words "us" and "them". Nye Bevan May 2014 #25

LOL, suddenly we are colorblind. Nice 180...... bettyellen May 2014 #38

Isn't that the whole goal? B2G May 2014 #47

No Capt. Obvious May 2014 #49

argh, you beat me to it by a minute! Revanchist May 2014 #51

"Colorblind" is also part of the problem Revanchist May 2014 #50

We can acknowledge each other's differences while still being "color blind" in a way. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #182

Dr. King said he was waiting for a world that was color blind gollygee May 2014 #185

That's what he wished for, isn't it? AverageJoe90 May 2014 #186

His words are often misrepresented gollygee May 2014 #187

"He wanted changes to happen to make that non-judgement be a reality." Basically what I just said... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #189

You don't want changes gollygee May 2014 #192

"You don't want changes" Talk about a real 180. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #193

You are one of the few progressives to think that "white privilege" is a myth. kwassa May 2014 #197

This JustAnotherGen May 2014 #203

Okay, but I didn't argue against that, TBH.....nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #214

That wasn't directed at you JustAnotherGen May 2014 #217

"Color blindness" is a problem, actually. NuclearDem May 2014 #52

Apparently, treating people based upon their character rather than their skin color is racist, Nye Bevan May 2014 #55

Did you c/p that from a Roberts Court ruling? Capt. Obvious May 2014 #56

and that idiotic Princeton student.... yeah it's a RW talking point for ignoring race issues bettyellen May 2014 #62

"character rather than skin color" did not originate in the Roberts court (nt) Nye Bevan May 2014 #108

"character rather than skin color" is avoiding the white privilege issue. kwassa May 2014 #114

Indeed. It's missing the key words "will one day." NuclearDem May 2014 #127

I know, right? B2G May 2014 #60

You know what? I've read others of your posts. You are not an unintelligent person. Squinch May 2014 #89

Yes. A thousand times yes. nt (P.S., see post 182 for further clarification). AverageJoe90 May 2014 #181

Our interests intersect in many places. M0rpheus May 2014 #39

God knows I am no longer looking for all men here to live up to the values they profess to have. bettyellen May 2014 #93

FRAMES!!!! Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #26

And doors. And ducks ismnotwasm May 2014 #155

AWESOME !!! Maybe we can get somewhere now. I think we have everything we need, right? Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #162

Church door ismnotwasm May 2014 #168

It has just the right amount of "irony" for the situation, yes. Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #175

But not nearly as flame-baity. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #29

flamebait defined BainsBane May 2014 #67

What is the point of this baiting? Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #69

You don't get it BainsBane May 2014 #75

Thankfully, you and the crew are here to explain it all to me. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #95

You declared the topic flamebait BainsBane May 2014 #104

Now you're telling what a proper opinion is? Get over yourself. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #113

certain forms of argumentation causes some people to get so fed up Supersedeas May 2014 #90

I feel the same about the Snowden stuff BainsBane May 2014 #101

Actually listening to the viewpoints of the socially marginalized is more constructive.... YoungDemCA May 2014 #32

It is an opinion I agree with 100% etherealtruth May 2014 #46

+1 gollygee May 2014 #48

+A truckload of plusses. Squinch May 2014 #91

+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #132

Well, it's an opinion. Iggo May 2014 #34

What about tan people? snooper2 May 2014 #53

They can have their white privilege and do something with it Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #57

It's not about being constructive anymore, if it ever was. Shandris May 2014 #58

your blythe dismissal of "whatever social justice once meant".... Never something that interested bettyellen May 2014 #65

Oh my, what a proper scolding. Shandris May 2014 #70

it's a direct quote from your post, so just walk backwards out of the thread and maybe no one else bettyellen May 2014 #74

A direct quote? Shandris May 2014 #80

Your "Whatever 'Social Justice' once meant" betrays prior ignorance and disinterest in social bettyellen May 2014 #82

Ahh, I get it. You don't read what I write well, or don't interpret it well, or something... Shandris May 2014 #87

"Whatever 'Social Justice' once meant" betrays your disinterest and dismissive attitude bettyellen May 2014 #85

You can 'note' whatever you'd like. Shandris May 2014 #97

Nailed it!! Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #71

Exactly right. Waiting For Everyman May 2014 #120

So.. white people are still racists because POC are too nasty? Their problems are real but ignored bettyellen May 2014 #183

I don't agree. People *do* need to check their privilege. RedCappedBandit May 2014 #61

This just cracks me up! peace13 May 2014 #64

I have been one of the biggest advocates of Obamacare on this discussion board. Nye Bevan May 2014 #106

I was not saying that you were calling HC a privilege. peace13 May 2014 #223

Because the world is dominated by whitie Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #72

WOW. A "poor me, I'm not the top dog in Cambodia" post! I actually should save this link becuse bettyellen May 2014 #78

LOL< you took that serious Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #79

Oh, you got me. I have seen the same sentiments posted here, and so bettyellen May 2014 #88

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #98

Welcome to DU. redqueen May 2014 #100

You've made the OP's point perfectly. NuclearDem May 2014 #103

Who is this "they" you know so much about... cyberswede May 2014 #136

So this is your attempt to end racism? Starry Messenger May 2014 #102

Hmmm. Perhaps knocking on white people's doors and angrily confronting them about their "privilege" Nye Bevan May 2014 #110

This is a discussion forum on political issues. This is not your front door. kwassa May 2014 #116

You seem to be saying that you would not use this approach in the real world. Nye Bevan May 2014 #130

Not me. I don't avoid this discussion anywhere. kwassa May 2014 #153

This is more like you knocking on black people's doors Starry Messenger May 2014 #119

Hmmm. The actual quote in my OP was "let's work together to end racism". Nye Bevan May 2014 #129

It's called subtext, "nye" Starry Messenger May 2014 #167

Well, to address racism, you have to address the reality of privilege. Scootaloo May 2014 #107

I like the way that President Obama addresses racial issues. Nye Bevan May 2014 #109

President Obama avoids addressing racial issues as much as possible. kwassa May 2014 #117

You are right, it was more "anti-Trayvon Martin." morningfog May 2014 #150

Certainly correct on that! AverageJoe90 May 2014 #216

except that whites who are usually committed to end racism La Lioness Priyanka May 2014 #115

Funny how it works out that way etherealtruth May 2014 #122

That's because they've already been led to understand it. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #131

Unfortunately, it kinda seems like you haven't looked in all the right places, TBH(no offense). AverageJoe90 May 2014 #191

prove your assertion. kwassa May 2014 #194

Racism, Discrimination fredamae May 2014 #128

For many it is the only way to feel good about themselves...... whistler162 May 2014 #133

This. This times infinity. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #134

Birds of a feather. Racism deniers. kwassa May 2014 #154

Are Obama and Biden "racism deniers" Nye Bevan May 2014 #156

They haven't denied white privilege, like you have. kwassa May 2014 #157

Wait..... in which thread did I "deny white privilege"? Nye Bevan May 2014 #158

What are you doing now but denying white privilege? kwassa May 2014 #159

Stating that saying "whites need to check their privilege" is not the most constructive approach Nye Bevan May 2014 #160

What is a constructive way to talk about white privilege? kwassa May 2014 #161

The phrase 'check their privilege' must have come from PatrickforO May 2014 #139

I think I see your point. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #196

+100. n/t Skip Intro May 2014 #143

You are still hung up on this? We cannot end racism UNTIL whites check their privilege. morningfog May 2014 #148

Fuck constructive. We are long overdue to deconstruct racism in this country. morningfog May 2014 #152

It is Way Past Time. Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #176

how depressing to see 15 recommends (so far) on a white people double down thread. m-lekktor May 2014 #163

Not sure if you have lurked and are familiar with the players here, but if it is any comfort Squinch May 2014 #174

I hate to say this, but we're not the ones who have a cluelessness problem. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #195

Sure.. bravenak May 2014 #201

Awesome! JustAnotherGen May 2014 #205

Me too, sometimes it is too much. bravenak May 2014 #206

Ut oh JustAnotherGen May 2014 #209

Oh, yes you are. You don't begin to understand the concept you are arguing against. kwassa May 2014 #222

Well, good luck with this one Nye! Eleanors38 May 2014 #166

Yes. Let's. No problem. Except when the gratuitous, unconscious playaz deny they motives. ancianita May 2014 #169

Is that because all races kept slaves in America? Because all races have shared in the power WinkyDink May 2014 #171

The concept of "White Privilege" is threatening to some people Maedhros May 2014 #202

"Let's work together to end racism" is more constructive than "white privilege doesn't exist!!11!" fishwax May 2014 #204

I concur (nt) Nye Bevan May 2014 #208

True, though I'd argue that the latter is mainly a reaction to some of the nastier stuff............ AverageJoe90 May 2014 #215

Nah, it's an immediate response out of the gate to pretty much any thread on the subject n/t fishwax May 2014 #220