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In reply to the discussion: pornography and erotica [View all]

De Leonist

(225 posts)
56. I'm sorry but....
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:15 PM
May 2014

No matter the arguments I read for how to define either term I find them ultimately subjective at best and quite frankly with no way to objectively define either term. My stance is thus, human sexuality is multidimensional and extremely complex. I view pornography and erotica as essentially the same thing in nature. Visual, and at times literary, expressions of human sexuality meant to arouse us in some fashion. Yes often unrealistic and idealized. But also sometimes closer to reality than others. I count anything from what many might perceive to be the dirtiest, nastiest, raunchiest, hardcore and violent "smut" to the most elegant, beautiful, tender, and loving "erotica" and all the forms of "porn" in between as having the same purpose.

Some I suppose will not like that because in their minds pornography is supposed to be exploitive while Erotica is not. I don't find that "definition" particularly useful in this sort of discussion Now that is not to say that serious and widespread issues of exploitation do not exist in industries that specialize in producing sexual entertainment or that they do not deserve our utmost attention in solving. But rather that even in "porn" that many here might mind offensive to their personal mores or tastes (well the legal kind anyway) it is possible to find people who are aware of and consenting to what their doing and at the same time actually find it to be a sexually desirable activity on their part, whether that person be a man or a woman. Also I think when it comes to judging whether something is a morally acceptable representation of human sexual activity it should be, imho, based on at least 3 factors.

1. Consent: If it is not deliberately clear and consensual on the part of all those involved in it's production than it is by it's very nature immoral, cruel, and out right illegal. Now many forms of porn are found offensive by vast swathes of people. But still the question needs to be is it consensual on the part of those involved in sexual activity as THE defining aspect as to whether it is morally acceptable or not. I also include fictional portrayals of sexual activity that might be interpreted as being "rape porn" in this as well since I just can not think of an intellectually honest reason to automatically condemn it.

I realize many find such depictions outright disgusting and that yes I am aware those who have suffered such horror in real life can have their emotional trauma retriggered if they inadvertently stumble upon it. But in the few studies I am aware of on the subject no evidence has actually been found to suggest that those who enjoy fictional depictions of forced sexual activity are anymore likely to participate in actual attempts of rape than those who do not, or any other violent or illegal activity for that matter. Nor have am I aware of any evidence that suggests it contributes to increased amounts of rape. Now if there is evidence that such depictions do contribute to either or any form of sexual violence that I haven't mention than please by all means share. Before moving on I feel I should say in my experience those who like take to part in sexual roleplaying of nonconsensual sex whether in private or for the viewing pleasure of others seem to prefer the term "ravishment" to rape.

2.Safety: I think this one is fairly straight forward. The well-being of all involved should be just as important as consent. If doesn't prioritize the safety of the actors and other individuals involved it needs to be ceased at once. Though I do think how much consideration that is given to safety, to a certain extent, can be left up to the personal discretion of those involved.

3. Legality: Last but certainly not least is the Legality of the sexual activity involved and those who will be portraying the sexual activity. In other words are those will be participating in any sex of any kind allowed to do by law. If the sexually active members of the production are not legally able to consent or if the sexual activity depicted is illegal than, again, it's production and distribution should be ceased immediately.

In my opinion the above three factors should be the bare minimum at deciding whether or not something is an acceptable depiction of sexual activity. Not, as some have wished to do, have a panel of censors who try to decide if it's "Erotica" or "Porn" based on factors that aren't really all that solid and pretty much subjective to each person.

Lastly, I think we need to scrap the idea that somehow smut, porn, and erotica are objectively different to each other in any real way. Since they are all depictions of sexual activity between humans or as depictions of single individual in a sexually provocative way it really is pointless to actually try to define these terms outside of personal opinion. Granted some are more explicit with others less so but still at the end of the day they are all still meant to arouse us in some way sexually. Which can occur in a number of different ways in both men and women.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

pornography and erotica [View all] arely staircase May 2014 OP
Both are mere fantasy and quite a bore... Cooley Hurd May 2014 #1
This ^ ^ ^ Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2014 #31
Which is this? elleng May 2014 #2
erotica arely staircase May 2014 #3
I think so too, elleng May 2014 #21
toro me rhat is also erotica arely staircase May 2014 #28
Is that Matthew Mcconaugheywith a mustache? Lint Head May 2014 #51
A painting Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2014 #32
Art... Cooley Hurd May 2014 #40
Nothing to be 'sorry' about, Cooley! elleng May 2014 #41
Serious question: armpit hair mathematic May 2014 #48
Dunno, elleng May 2014 #49
Porn is kitsch. rrneck May 2014 #4
so would you saybporn is purient without a truy artistic value? arely staircase May 2014 #5
Yeah but the problem is rrneck May 2014 #16
i don't consider the vag egg drop to be either arely staircase May 2014 #20
It's art. rrneck May 2014 #24
I agree it is art. not my cup of tea. but it is art arely staircase May 2014 #26
It's not erotic for me either rrneck May 2014 #29
"The minute we come up with an art canon some wise ass will drive through it with a Mack truck." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #62
Penetration. JaneyVee May 2014 #6
ok . nt arely staircase May 2014 #8
Erotica leaves a space for the viewer's imagination. Think the shower scene in Psycho- KittyWampus May 2014 #7
+ 1 nt arely staircase May 2014 #13
I'm on a phone so the spelling might be wrong rrneck May 2014 #17
Ah, you mean like Shunga & Kama Sutra? But they are not photographically realistic. KittyWampus May 2014 #22
Photographic realism is not that important. rrneck May 2014 #27
Porn vs. Erotica = Blatant vs. Subtle ..nt TeeYiYi May 2014 #9
best answer so far arely staircase May 2014 #10
not the thread i thought it would be lame54 May 2014 #11
must ask. what did you expect? arely staircase May 2014 #54
divorce lame54 May 2014 #12
lol nt arely staircase May 2014 #14
Tomato, tomata... Potato, Glassunion May 2014 #15
Porn has no point DonCoquixote May 2014 #18
I like that nt arely staircase May 2014 #55
Sounds like a good enough working definition to me. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #64
Pornography is for those who know what they are watching and...... Bonhomme Richard May 2014 #19
I don't know if that's your line reflection May 2014 #39
I just thought of it so go ahead and use. n/t Bonhomme Richard May 2014 #44
I'm no art scholar kentauros May 2014 #23
The difference is whether you like it Prophet 451 May 2014 #25
Kind of like the old joke about the difference between a Faith, Sect, or Cult... petronius May 2014 #33
Very much so Prophet 451 May 2014 #38
No video? pintobean May 2014 #30
The price jberryhill May 2014 #34
150% of free is still free name not needed May 2014 #84
Porn is for men. Erotica is for women. Kablooie May 2014 #35
Or maybe (some) women just call the porn *they* like "erotica." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #65
I'm no art scholar libodem May 2014 #36
I agree that art classes help people to appreciate the human body kentauros May 2014 #58
I like smut c588415 May 2014 #37
Nothing, inherently. Sex is sex. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #67
"I know it when I see it" US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart. Historic NY May 2014 #42
A very old-fashioned definition eridani May 2014 #43
That is NOT correct... Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #46
This thread is useless without picures....(nt) Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #45
Here's a whole Italian archive, then: kentauros May 2014 #59
One costs more than the other (nt) The Straight Story May 2014 #47
What I like is erotica, what you like is porn Fumesucker May 2014 #50
I'm disappointed in this thread tularetom May 2014 #52
Well, what used to be considered porn, is today Cleita May 2014 #53
Another example.... rppper May 2014 #66
I'm sorry but.... De Leonist May 2014 #56
Good post. You summed it all up fairly well. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #71
Erotica is what gets you off. Porn is for everyone else. Major Nikon May 2014 #57
Al Goldstein publisher of Screw magazine, offered this...... msanthrope May 2014 #60
My question is who gets to decide? Major Nikon May 2014 #61
Every person has to decide for him/herself. Needless to say, I'm not in favor of any censorship. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #72
Which means it's utterly and completely subjective Major Nikon May 2014 #77
It is pretty much completely subjective. You're right. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #78
While I think calling themselves' "anti-porn" is rather pointless De Leonist May 2014 #63
The world does need better porn - more pleasurable, less exploitative. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #73
It's out there and in growing numbers Blue_Adept May 2014 #89
Yeah, pro-Kink, anti-Brazzars. joshcryer May 2014 #75
Give me smut and nothing but! edbermac May 2014 #68
I love both. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #69
and that is cool. arely staircase May 2014 #70
You cannot judge art. Art is anything that elicits an emotion. Yavin4 May 2014 #74
Porn targets the loins, Erotica targets the mind. Ready4Change May 2014 #76
One can read that as lower and upper chakrahs... MrMickeysMom May 2014 #90
Pornography has drited towards erotica Harmony Blue May 2014 #79
The difference is a question of focus and intent Scootaloo May 2014 #80
I saw a cartoon years ago... rrneck May 2014 #81
What is BDSM? porn or erotica? darkangel218 May 2014 #82
Simply put, Erotica is of the mind Savannahmann May 2014 #83
Pornography is the stuff you hide, erotica is the stuff you show off. McCamy Taylor May 2014 #85
Also House of Roberts May 2014 #86
Erotica is accepted by the culture, Pornography is not intaglio May 2014 #87
"To know the difference between erotica and pornography retread May 2014 #88
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