General Discussion

Damansarajaya

(625 posts)

117. There's no real "debate" about the oppression of black people

Sat May 10, 2014, 12:43 PM

May 2014

on a left-of-center website like DU.

Granted, you might find an occasional un-reconstructed poster who votes Democratic because Lincoln was a Republican, but he or she is the exception that prove the rule, and the rule is this: we all know that African-Americans have been enslaved, have been discriminated against even after slavery ended, were subject to de facto slavery under the share-cropper system and Jim Crow laws and disenfranchising, and even after the Civil Rights movement largely eliminated the worst abuses, lingering discrimination and racism remain.

This is a given, and you won't find real debate about it here.

Questioning the value of using a term like "privilege," which is what the OP did, is not the same as debating whether racism exists.

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As a gay man, I think this privilege debate is kind of ridiculous. [View all] Kurska May 2014 OP

Nobody has said that..... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #1

K & R Le Taz Hot May 2014 #2

As a Jew I don't consider myself white. dilby May 2014 #3

I don't have a Jewish sounding last name. Kurska May 2014 #5

How often do you get asked about your position on Israel? dilby May 2014 #7

Yes, but in this particular context, the relevant question is how others perceive you . . . markpkessinger May 2014 #144

Interesting perspective LittleBlue May 2014 #4

And the term "white" or "white people" assumes white women don't exist. pnwmom May 2014 #48

Or gay white women n/t Aerows May 2014 #69

Yes! pnwmom May 2014 #70

maybe the scale of privilege is a moving scale Supersedeas May 2014 #140

or trans folks AngryAmish May 2014 #62

I get your point, but I kind of think you're not getting the concept of privilege. marmar May 2014 #6

From what I've seen there are two different definitions. Kurska May 2014 #9

"Ripping down" is coming from you. jeff47 May 2014 #26

+1 Ms. Toad May 2014 #39

white people Niceguy1 May 2014 #56

You still have privilege over a black person from a poor background. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #96

the term Niceguy1 May 2014 #102

Of course it's greater than race. Race privilege is one form, class privilege is another. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #103

Well you are certainly reacting emotionally to it. DireStrike May 2014 #118

I bet you whites have a higher % of getting out of poverty than blacks. Drunken Irishman May 2014 #127

Its a natural outgrowth of the mindset that says that... Shandris May 2014 #8

Very good point and I agree. Kurska May 2014 #12

"if you don't have hands-on experience with something, you need to sit down and shut up and listen kwassa May 2014 #125

Except that they aren't true -at all-, and had they been followed historically, most... Shandris May 2014 #131

um, no. This part I don't agree with at all. kwassa May 2014 #136

great post--appropriate and applicable to everyone Supersedeas May 2014 #142

OK and goodbye. GeorgeGist May 2014 #10

LOL n/t Kurska May 2014 #11

Do you think straight people have some cultural advantages as a result of being straight Squinch May 2014 #13

I don't believe there is anything about the gay experience a straight person couldn't understand. Kurska May 2014 #14

I do, many I know had never considered that partners can be shut out by the family if their loved bettyellen May 2014 #18

Then there are some discriminations that you have experienced that I have not. Squinch May 2014 #20

Then the goal should be work, empathy and engagement. Kurska May 2014 #21

Whose goal? If I am looking at your life and saying, "Oh, you're saying I don't understand Squinch May 2014 #28

Adding: Squinch May 2014 #33

Are you aware this is about societal issues that effect millions of Americans, and not you? bettyellen May 2014 #15

That's not privilege. NuclearDem May 2014 #16

+1 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #49

I think you misinterpreted the concept of privilege... joeybee12 May 2014 #17

Thank you for helping to articulate jimlup May 2014 #19

what you do not recognize is that people do not judge others on their merits, but by race and sex bettyellen May 2014 #53

Exactly what I expected... jimlup May 2014 #55

Is it personal because you really didn't know that this color blind Utopia does not exist? bettyellen May 2014 #60

Conversation ended... jimlup May 2014 #61

well either you had been living a grand illusion or kept your head in the sand willfully..... bettyellen May 2014 #63

See you can't even stop attacking me... jimlup May 2014 #64

just clarifying the message I got from your very own post..... bettyellen May 2014 #66

Please STOP telling me what to think jimlup May 2014 #67

That's fine! I'm not much for those who would wish away my reality! bettyellen May 2014 #68

I am white and derive some social privilege from it. Lex May 2014 #22

Of all the examples I often see, that's probably the poorest one. Shandris May 2014 #24

All the times you don't get followed, you don't know about. Lex May 2014 #29

I didn't say it didn't exist. Shandris May 2014 #43

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #23

I think people are just expressing their anger RainDog May 2014 #25

Why is it so hard to figure out that class, race, gender and sexuality are not the same? BainsBane May 2014 #27

+1 Lex May 2014 #30

Yup. Agschmid May 2014 #31

Excellent post. RedCappedBandit May 2014 #37

"I feel like I'm trapped in a Fox News vortex." Welcome to DU! Number23 May 2014 #40

+500 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #51

well said n/t TorchTheWitch May 2014 #78

Good post. Major Hogwash May 2014 #100

I think what the OP argued is Damansarajaya May 2014 #109

Where does he argue that? BainsBane May 2014 #115

See below-- Damansarajaya May 2014 #116

I think you are wrong, in multiple ways. kwassa May 2014 #126

The issue in "white privilege" is racism, not discrimination generally BainsBane May 2014 #128

+1000 smirkymonkey May 2014 #138

+1000 smirkymonkey May 2014 #139

You claim you can read my mind. Damansarajaya May 2014 #148

I read your post. BainsBane May 2014 #149

As for divisions, they already exist BainsBane May 2014 #129

So well said. redqueen May 2014 #112

I love it when Baines is On Fire. Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #130

+10,000 smirkymonkey May 2014 #134

Okay. If a button existed to make you a BLACK Jewish gay man, would you press it? Scootaloo May 2014 #32

If there was a button to make me straight, I wouldn't press it either. Kurska May 2014 #41

it's a thought experiment Scootaloo May 2014 #45

No, because I have no desire to change my race. Kurska May 2014 #46

I remeber when I grew up, there were only 3 races AAO May 2014 #34

I agree that much of the time, the "Damn you, you are so privileged!" threads tend to be a waste quinnox May 2014 #35

"...when they don't know crap about duers personal circumstances." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #47

It's not. It means don't ascribe intentions or "hidden" motivations Damansarajaya May 2014 #114

I agree. People frequently jump to the wrong conclusions, and I'm sure I've been guilty of that. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #124

Hallelujah! good post and well said Damansarajaya May 2014 #110

This isn't that complicated. RedCappedBandit May 2014 #36

I think you're missing it. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #38

"It's the things 'not done to you' that are the automatic privilege." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #44

agreed n/t RainDog May 2014 #52

Yes. Starry Messenger May 2014 #143

"I deserve to be judged as human being, not as the sum total of the negative or social advantages nomorenomore08 May 2014 #42

And what is it people want to come from such discussions? The Straight Story May 2014 #57

I just wish some people wouldn't fight so hard against (what seem to me) basic progressive ideas. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #58

Monty Python- Four Yorkshireman. "You try to tell the young people today that & they won't believe KittyWampus May 2014 #50

This totally misses the point. Ms. Toad May 2014 #54

Fantastic post. You put it so succintly, yet there are still those who will willfully misunderstand. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #59

Thanks. Ms. Toad May 2014 #73

rec. Beautifully stated. MerryBlooms May 2014 #65

Thanks. Ms. Toad May 2014 #72

Can't really say that the bourgeoisplaining that invariably pops up helps much either Chathamization May 2014 #71

Class is an important factor too. Probably just as important as race, in its own way. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #75

"It doesn't mean that well-off people who are black can just say 'I'm black' and weasel out of this Chathamization May 2014 #82

I was describing an actual phenomenon on DU. If you don't perceive it, then okay. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #83

As much as the quote I posted was "describing an actual phenomenon" Chathamization May 2014 #89

Yes, we all have advantages and disadvantages, and we all have blind spots. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #91

No one is completely off the hook. But again, I encourage you to switch around the privileges in Chathamization May 2014 #108

I think you've somewhat misinterpreted what I said, but I will try to be more mindful. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #123

i think white people who live in all white areas find white privilege hard to understand, and wealth dionysus May 2014 #74

This is true as well. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #76

Too bad you find the debate around the oppression of blacks by whites ridiculous. bravenak May 2014 #77

Thank you. Lex May 2014 #79

No problem. bravenak May 2014 #80

"It is going to happen until we get treated fairly. Period." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #84

Anyone who takes me complaining until i get fair treatment as an attack. bravenak May 2014 #87

"Very self-centered" is right. I think that's a huge part of the problem right there. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #90

+1 redqueen May 2014 #111

There's no real "debate" about the oppression of black people Damansarajaya May 2014 #117

White privilege is racism. bravenak May 2014 #119

Then why isn't it just called racism? Damansarajaya May 2014 #120

In this country. bravenak May 2014 #121

Great, you've given me a good idea. Damansarajaya May 2014 #147

Whatever floats your boat.:) bravenak May 2014 #150

You're white. You're bad. Male? Fuck you. Accept the privelige you've been given. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #81

But does the larger society perceive you as a "white" man? That makes a difference, like it or not. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #85

From my nose up, I look like Graham Greene the actor. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #88

If you're perceived as white, then that impacts how other people treat you. It's just reality. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #92

Go on then. Knock yourself out. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #93

Nothing to do with "guilt." You honestly don't think there's a problem? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #94

If your father had been black instead of white, Tanuki May 2014 #107

Priviilege is like climate change BainsBane May 2014 #86

You misunderstand what is meant by privilege. TeacherB87 May 2014 #95

People perceive you as a white man? Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #97

Time to address heterosexual privilege. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #98

This too. We need to scream about this. bravenak May 2014 #99

You and I share many identities, so I hope I communicate this correctly. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #101

In other words, we cannot know until Jamastiene May 2014 #104

Yes. Funny, I recently made a comment about shoes. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #105

The last time I looked, SevenSixtyTwo May 2014 #106

Said president also mentioned loyalsister May 2014 #146

wow, a queer jew in the south arely staircase May 2014 #113

all other factors being equal (very important point).... steve2470 May 2014 #122

Statistically speaking, all factors are NOT equal re: race YoungDemCA May 2014 #132

yes very true nt steve2470 May 2014 #133

Nobody intelligent is pre-judging the lives of others based on race Hippo_Tron May 2014 #135

Big K & R! Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #137

I've been reluctant to comment on this idea... sendero May 2014 #141

As another gay man, I don't think you get the concept of "privilege" in a social justice context markpkessinger May 2014 #145

Excellent post (yours and his). I find the phrase "class-stratified survival behaviors" particularly nomorenomore08 May 2014 #151