General Discussion

steve2470

(37,481 posts)

122. all other factors being equal (very important point)....

Sat May 10, 2014, 07:41 PM

May 2014

I think it's undeniable that whites/Caucasians still possess enormous advantages (the privilege part) in this country. I'm not negatively judging anyone for that fact, unless you actively perpetrate racism and bigotry. Everyone deserves to be evaluated (a softer word) on their individual merits.

I'm a middle-aged white guy, and I have no issue with the privilege concept. No one (if they are being logical) is negatively judging me for the fact I was born Caucasian. If I perpetrate racism and bigotry, then yes, absolutely I will be judged and judged harshly. "White privilege" is simply an observation of prevailing societal conditions in this country, which are very slowly changing. Somehow I don't think minds will be changed on DU any time soon on this topic.

With that, I'm out.

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As a gay man, I think this privilege debate is kind of ridiculous. [View all] Kurska May 2014 OP

Nobody has said that..... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #1

K & R Le Taz Hot May 2014 #2

As a Jew I don't consider myself white. dilby May 2014 #3

I don't have a Jewish sounding last name. Kurska May 2014 #5

How often do you get asked about your position on Israel? dilby May 2014 #7

Yes, but in this particular context, the relevant question is how others perceive you . . . markpkessinger May 2014 #144

Interesting perspective LittleBlue May 2014 #4

And the term "white" or "white people" assumes white women don't exist. pnwmom May 2014 #48

Or gay white women n/t Aerows May 2014 #69

Yes! pnwmom May 2014 #70

maybe the scale of privilege is a moving scale Supersedeas May 2014 #140

or trans folks AngryAmish May 2014 #62

I get your point, but I kind of think you're not getting the concept of privilege. marmar May 2014 #6

From what I've seen there are two different definitions. Kurska May 2014 #9

"Ripping down" is coming from you. jeff47 May 2014 #26

+1 Ms. Toad May 2014 #39

white people Niceguy1 May 2014 #56

You still have privilege over a black person from a poor background. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #96

the term Niceguy1 May 2014 #102

Of course it's greater than race. Race privilege is one form, class privilege is another. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #103

Well you are certainly reacting emotionally to it. DireStrike May 2014 #118

I bet you whites have a higher % of getting out of poverty than blacks. Drunken Irishman May 2014 #127

Its a natural outgrowth of the mindset that says that... Shandris May 2014 #8

Very good point and I agree. Kurska May 2014 #12

"if you don't have hands-on experience with something, you need to sit down and shut up and listen kwassa May 2014 #125

Except that they aren't true -at all-, and had they been followed historically, most... Shandris May 2014 #131

um, no. This part I don't agree with at all. kwassa May 2014 #136

great post--appropriate and applicable to everyone Supersedeas May 2014 #142

OK and goodbye. GeorgeGist May 2014 #10

LOL n/t Kurska May 2014 #11

Do you think straight people have some cultural advantages as a result of being straight Squinch May 2014 #13

I don't believe there is anything about the gay experience a straight person couldn't understand. Kurska May 2014 #14

I do, many I know had never considered that partners can be shut out by the family if their loved bettyellen May 2014 #18

Then there are some discriminations that you have experienced that I have not. Squinch May 2014 #20

Then the goal should be work, empathy and engagement. Kurska May 2014 #21

Whose goal? If I am looking at your life and saying, "Oh, you're saying I don't understand Squinch May 2014 #28

Adding: Squinch May 2014 #33

Are you aware this is about societal issues that effect millions of Americans, and not you? bettyellen May 2014 #15

That's not privilege. NuclearDem May 2014 #16

+1 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #49

I think you misinterpreted the concept of privilege... joeybee12 May 2014 #17

Thank you for helping to articulate jimlup May 2014 #19

what you do not recognize is that people do not judge others on their merits, but by race and sex bettyellen May 2014 #53

Exactly what I expected... jimlup May 2014 #55

Is it personal because you really didn't know that this color blind Utopia does not exist? bettyellen May 2014 #60

Conversation ended... jimlup May 2014 #61

well either you had been living a grand illusion or kept your head in the sand willfully..... bettyellen May 2014 #63

See you can't even stop attacking me... jimlup May 2014 #64

just clarifying the message I got from your very own post..... bettyellen May 2014 #66

Please STOP telling me what to think jimlup May 2014 #67

That's fine! I'm not much for those who would wish away my reality! bettyellen May 2014 #68

I am white and derive some social privilege from it. Lex May 2014 #22

Of all the examples I often see, that's probably the poorest one. Shandris May 2014 #24

All the times you don't get followed, you don't know about. Lex May 2014 #29

I didn't say it didn't exist. Shandris May 2014 #43

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #23

I think people are just expressing their anger RainDog May 2014 #25

Why is it so hard to figure out that class, race, gender and sexuality are not the same? BainsBane May 2014 #27

+1 Lex May 2014 #30

Yup. Agschmid May 2014 #31

Excellent post. RedCappedBandit May 2014 #37

"I feel like I'm trapped in a Fox News vortex." Welcome to DU! Number23 May 2014 #40

+500 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #51

well said n/t TorchTheWitch May 2014 #78

Good post. Major Hogwash May 2014 #100

I think what the OP argued is Damansarajaya May 2014 #109

Where does he argue that? BainsBane May 2014 #115

See below-- Damansarajaya May 2014 #116

I think you are wrong, in multiple ways. kwassa May 2014 #126

The issue in "white privilege" is racism, not discrimination generally BainsBane May 2014 #128

+1000 smirkymonkey May 2014 #138

+1000 smirkymonkey May 2014 #139

You claim you can read my mind. Damansarajaya May 2014 #148

I read your post. BainsBane May 2014 #149

As for divisions, they already exist BainsBane May 2014 #129

So well said. redqueen May 2014 #112

I love it when Baines is On Fire. Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #130

+10,000 smirkymonkey May 2014 #134

Okay. If a button existed to make you a BLACK Jewish gay man, would you press it? Scootaloo May 2014 #32

If there was a button to make me straight, I wouldn't press it either. Kurska May 2014 #41

it's a thought experiment Scootaloo May 2014 #45

No, because I have no desire to change my race. Kurska May 2014 #46

I remeber when I grew up, there were only 3 races AAO May 2014 #34

I agree that much of the time, the "Damn you, you are so privileged!" threads tend to be a waste quinnox May 2014 #35

"...when they don't know crap about duers personal circumstances." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #47

It's not. It means don't ascribe intentions or "hidden" motivations Damansarajaya May 2014 #114

I agree. People frequently jump to the wrong conclusions, and I'm sure I've been guilty of that. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #124

Hallelujah! good post and well said Damansarajaya May 2014 #110

This isn't that complicated. RedCappedBandit May 2014 #36

I think you're missing it. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #38

"It's the things 'not done to you' that are the automatic privilege." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #44

agreed n/t RainDog May 2014 #52

Yes. Starry Messenger May 2014 #143

"I deserve to be judged as human being, not as the sum total of the negative or social advantages nomorenomore08 May 2014 #42

And what is it people want to come from such discussions? The Straight Story May 2014 #57

I just wish some people wouldn't fight so hard against (what seem to me) basic progressive ideas. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #58

Monty Python- Four Yorkshireman. "You try to tell the young people today that & they won't believe KittyWampus May 2014 #50

This totally misses the point. Ms. Toad May 2014 #54

Fantastic post. You put it so succintly, yet there are still those who will willfully misunderstand. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #59

Thanks. Ms. Toad May 2014 #73

rec. Beautifully stated. MerryBlooms May 2014 #65

Thanks. Ms. Toad May 2014 #72

Can't really say that the bourgeoisplaining that invariably pops up helps much either Chathamization May 2014 #71

Class is an important factor too. Probably just as important as race, in its own way. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #75

"It doesn't mean that well-off people who are black can just say 'I'm black' and weasel out of this Chathamization May 2014 #82

I was describing an actual phenomenon on DU. If you don't perceive it, then okay. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #83

As much as the quote I posted was "describing an actual phenomenon" Chathamization May 2014 #89

Yes, we all have advantages and disadvantages, and we all have blind spots. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #91

No one is completely off the hook. But again, I encourage you to switch around the privileges in Chathamization May 2014 #108

I think you've somewhat misinterpreted what I said, but I will try to be more mindful. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #123

i think white people who live in all white areas find white privilege hard to understand, and wealth dionysus May 2014 #74

This is true as well. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #76

Too bad you find the debate around the oppression of blacks by whites ridiculous. bravenak May 2014 #77

Thank you. Lex May 2014 #79

No problem. bravenak May 2014 #80

"It is going to happen until we get treated fairly. Period." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #84

Anyone who takes me complaining until i get fair treatment as an attack. bravenak May 2014 #87

"Very self-centered" is right. I think that's a huge part of the problem right there. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #90

+1 redqueen May 2014 #111

There's no real "debate" about the oppression of black people Damansarajaya May 2014 #117

White privilege is racism. bravenak May 2014 #119

Then why isn't it just called racism? Damansarajaya May 2014 #120

In this country. bravenak May 2014 #121

Great, you've given me a good idea. Damansarajaya May 2014 #147

Whatever floats your boat.:) bravenak May 2014 #150

You're white. You're bad. Male? Fuck you. Accept the privelige you've been given. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #81

But does the larger society perceive you as a "white" man? That makes a difference, like it or not. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #85

From my nose up, I look like Graham Greene the actor. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #88

If you're perceived as white, then that impacts how other people treat you. It's just reality. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #92

Go on then. Knock yourself out. cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #93

Nothing to do with "guilt." You honestly don't think there's a problem? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #94

If your father had been black instead of white, Tanuki May 2014 #107

Priviilege is like climate change BainsBane May 2014 #86

You misunderstand what is meant by privilege. TeacherB87 May 2014 #95

People perceive you as a white man? Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #97

Time to address heterosexual privilege. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #98

This too. We need to scream about this. bravenak May 2014 #99

You and I share many identities, so I hope I communicate this correctly. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #101

In other words, we cannot know until Jamastiene May 2014 #104

Yes. Funny, I recently made a comment about shoes. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #105

The last time I looked, SevenSixtyTwo May 2014 #106

Said president also mentioned loyalsister May 2014 #146

wow, a queer jew in the south arely staircase May 2014 #113

all other factors being equal (very important point).... steve2470 May 2014 #122

Statistically speaking, all factors are NOT equal re: race YoungDemCA May 2014 #132

yes very true nt steve2470 May 2014 #133

Nobody intelligent is pre-judging the lives of others based on race Hippo_Tron May 2014 #135

Big K & R! Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #137

I've been reluctant to comment on this idea... sendero May 2014 #141

As another gay man, I don't think you get the concept of "privilege" in a social justice context markpkessinger May 2014 #145

Excellent post (yours and his). I find the phrase "class-stratified survival behaviors" particularly nomorenomore08 May 2014 #151