General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: 'I Have Been to the Darkest Corners of Government, and What They Fear Is Light' [View all]JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Last edited Tue May 13, 2014, 06:39 PM - Edit history (1)
We are bound to each other, with each other, to form and re-form a government that is limited by the Constitution.
Nowhere in our Constitution have we or our forefathers agreed to the establishment of secret courts that issue secret orders that violate our rights as set forth in the Bill of Rights. Many of the amendments in the Bill of Rights are intended to limit the government's ability to interfere or even know about our thoughts, what we say to each other, in other words, many of the amendments in the Bill of Rights are intended to protect the privacy of Americans.
The NSA is violating the Bill of Rights. In my opinion to the extent that it is extending the authority and capacity of the government to invade the privacy of law-abiding or basically law-abiding citizens, it is violating our fundamental agreement amongst us to form a government. In other words, it is violating the spirit and word of the Constitution.
It is extra-Constitutional in my opinion. Read below what Frank Church said about the government's spying. The more I learn about the surveillance the more I question whether we are at all a "free" country, whether our government is legitimate meaning whether it is a government formed according to our Constitution -- limited and controlled by the all the people and not just a small clique at the NSA and in other intelligence branches of the government.
I'm not planning or advocating a revolution. But the extreme secrecy must either end or the government should just admit that it is no longer trying to govern according to our Constitution and that the American people are living under a dictatorship. I can't see how the fundamental and obvious conflict between the letter and spirit of the Constitution and the excessive secrecy of the NSA spying and other aspects of our government are compatible.
I trust the Obama administration. But I did not trust the GWB administration. And there may be future administrations that some of us do not trust with the ability to place us under surveillance.
A strong economy, good personal relationships, the ability to speak freely with others -- all those things that Americans take for granted depend on the dominance of a spirit of trust and good faith among us. To enter into contracts, to form a government, to enforce laws, to respect laws, we have to have trust. The surveillance reminds everyone and is intended to remind everyone that the person with whom we are having a conversation or eating dinner or sitting next to on a train might be an ENEMY. That destroys trust. That destroys confidence. And eventually it will destroy our economy, certain personal relationships and the ability to speak freely with others. And without that trust we can be neither a democracy or as some like to say, a republic.
I'm saddened to see how few people understand about the role of trust in a society and how government surveillance destroys that trust. Government surveillance of a people IS dictatorship. That is what it is. It is not democracy. It is not a republic.
SURVEILLANCE EQUALS DICTATORSHIP. Hope you enjoy your stay in the dictatorship.
By the way, who cares whether this is approved by the FISA court? It's just a court, except since its rulings are secret, it does not face the scrutiny of public opinion, of the voters' opinion.
The documents that Snowden brought out indicate that the FISA court has approved blanket surveillance without warrants or probable cause. That violates the Constitution. Virtually all the judges on the FISA court have been chosen by Chief Justice Roberts, and as I understand it, with maybe only one exception, they are all Republicans. That scares me more than anything.
No to secret courts of any kind. No to a secret court appointed by the Supreme Court without consultation with members of both parties (all parties) in Congress. No to secret rulings.