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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
149. For one, NSA vs CIA employment.
Wed May 14, 2014, 09:30 AM
May 2014

Why that matters so much: CIA fingerprints are all over the murder of President John F. Kennedy, a peace loving, human rights respecting, old fashioned New Deal get anything done to improve America for ALL Americans, liberal.

As a Democrat, a DUer and as a citizen of the United States, I was proud to attend "Passing the Torch: An International Symposium on the 50th Anniversary of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy" at Duquesne University.

One of the important speakers there was David Talbot, author of "Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years." As the founder of Salon.com, the man of letters also understands new media and its import for democracy and our republic.



David Talbot did not mince words in his presentation at Duquesne. He publicly named former CIA director Allen Dulles not only as participant in the cover-up of events concerning CIA in the assassination of President Kennedy, Talbot said Dulles was the chief architect of the assassination.

Mr. Talbot has worked for more than two years on a book that I believe will shake the nation's financial and political establishment to its core. Here are Mr. Talbot's words, outlining why:



...I think what we're going to show over the next few years is that Allen Welsh Dulles was much more centrally involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, and its cover-up, than Lee Harvey Oswald.

Fifty years later, it's finally time to give the man his rightful place in history. In his day, Allen Dulles was America's most legendary spymaster, the longest-serving director of the CIA. He took great pleasure in regaling the public about his espionage triumphs. But, for obvious reasons, he could never take credit for his biggest and boldest covert operation:
the killing of the President of the United States in broad daylight on the streets of an American city.

I hope that my forthcoming book, which will be titled "The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, JFK and the Epic Battle for America's Soul" will at long last give Mr. Dulles his due. As I say in my title of my remarks this morning, I believe Allen Dulles truly was the "Chairman of the Board of the Kennedy Assassination."

In September 1965, nearly two years after Kennedy was violently removed from office, Allen Dulles went for a stroll near his home in Georgetown with a young magazine editor named William Morris. The old spymaster, long since retired, struck Morris as an amiable, avuncular character until the name Kennedy suddenly came up in the conversation. Suddenly a dark cloud crossed the old man's brow.

"That little Kennedy," he spat out. "He thought he was a god."

Allen Dulles knew who the true overlords of American power were. (They were) men like him and his brother, not Jack and Bobby Kennedy. The Kennedys were mere upstarts in comparison to the Dulles family. The Dulles dynasty boasted diplomats and international bankers and three secretaries of state. The Kennedy clan, by comparison, was distinguished by saloon keepers and ward healers. When paterfamilias Joseph Kennedy was amassing his fortune as a movie mogul and stock gambler, Dulles and his older brother were running Wall Street from their perch at the world's largest law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell and creating a new global financial order.

During the Cold War, President Eisenhower outsourced the country's foreign policy to the Dulles Brothers, with Secretary of State John Foster Dulles serving as the architect of Washington's global crusade against communism, and Allen Dulles carrying out the darker chores of empire.

Soviet leader Nikita Krushchev who kept looking for a way out of the Cold War noose but found himself repeatedly checkmated by the Dulleses remarked at one point, "One shuddered at what great force was in the Dulles Brothers' hands."

The Dulles Brothers stood at the very apex of American power, straddling an elite network that connected Wall Street, Washington, big oil and international finance. John Foster Dulles was the ultimate counselor for that overworld that ruled the country's government and business, and his younger brother Allen was at privileged circles master of intrigue and subversion, its enforcer...



Mr. Talbot had a lot more to say about the Dulles Brothers, especially Allen Dulles as head of CIA. One of the most important things to remember, Dulles, even after he was out of office, continued to command the respect of people like James Jesus Angleton and Richard Helms, people he had promoted to their positions of power, and people who kept their knowledge of CIA assassination programs away from President Kennedy and the various government investigators who would later ask them about them.

Something I'm personally proud to add: Dulles and his brother are two of the main founders of the BFEE, a term Bartcop coined and I borrow to denote the War Party affiliated with the right wing Wall Street crowd that infested Washington for much of the late 19th and 20th century. Allen Dulles was a good friend and business associate of Prescott Sheldon Bush, Sr.

During the Depression, they tried to overthrow FDR. Before and during World War II, they did business with Hitler. After the war, they imported NAZIs to help fight the commies and build up a case for the Military Industrial Complex. They've done a lot since, from Vietnam to Iraq.

Where does DU fit in all of this? DU serves to spread the truth about the government and how its secret services operate in service to wealth before service to the People. That's not only un-democratic, that's fascistic.

CONTINUED...


Talbot's book is going to be literary dynamite. More of what he said at Duquesne...

...Dulles had even less respect for Jack Kennedy's authority than he did for FDR's.

After he was fired from the CIA by Kennedy, Dulles continued to meet with a steady stream of top- and mid-level CIA officials at his home in Georgetown. The two-story brick house on Q-Street became the seat of a sort of government in exile.

Among those Dulles remained in contact with were a number of CIA officials who later came under suspicion for the assassination of President Kennedy, including Jim Angleton and many of his aides, (including) Bill Harvey and Howard Hunt. Over the years, Harvey in particular has aroused strong suspicions.

John Whitten, the CIA official who was originally charged with the agency's investigation of the (John F.) Kennedy assassination, would later tell the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978 that Harvey was a likely suspect in the case. Robert Blakey, the committee's chief counsel, and his investigator, Dan Hardway, came to share these suspicions about Harvey, but their investigation
ran out of political support and money before it could be completed.

Dulles gave Bill Harvey the CIA's highest medal and its most murderous assignments, including the Mafia hit or attempted hit against Castro. Bill Harvey was a creature of Allen Dulles' lawless and lethal CIA, a culture that operated with little governmental oversight and little respect for international law.

It was the kind of unhinged environment, where a man like Harvey could seriously propose recruiting mafia hit men, while on duty overseas, to kill members of a left-wing, democratic party, and then draw a gun on one of his own deputies, when the deputy objected on moral and legal grounds. It was the deputy, by the way, who was withdrawn back to Langley, and not Harvey, whose CIA career kept careening out of control for several more years.

Allen Dulles continued to meet with a variety of other sketchy characters when he was in so-called retirement in 1962 and 1963, including (with) Cuban exile leader Paulino Sierra Martinez, who was closely tied in with the Mafia. Dulles also met with -- thank you, Joan Mellen, for this -- also met with Philippe de Vosjoli, the head of French intelligence in Washington and a close associate of Jim Angleton. Dulles asked de Vosjoli to investigate the placement of Soviet missiles in Cuba and report back to the CIA.

Now these are the activities not of a man who has gracefully accepted retirement and is puttering around his garden. This is the calendar of a man who still thinks he is running the show.

Allen Dulles himself makes another curious appearance in the Kennedy story in spite of his so-called retirement. In the fall of 1963, he went on a promotional tour for his memoire, "The Craft of Intelligence,” stopping over in Dallas for two days at the end of October.

On that fateful Friday, November 22nd, 1963, Dulles interrupted his book tour when he got the news
from Dallas. Thank you, Lisa Pease for this: Dulles did not go home when he heard the news. According to his own day calendar, Dulles went to something called the Farm.

I wanted to make sure the Farm was not a family retreat. I interviewed people close to Dulles, including his own daughter; and she had never heard of the Farm. But, the Farm we know was the term given (to) a secure CIA facility located on the Camp Perry Military Reservation near Williamsburg, Virginia.

In 1972, a local newspapar reported that the cia used the facility to, among other things, train assassins.

So, even though he had no longer -- he no longer had any official reason to be there, Dulles spent the entire weekend (of the assassination) at the CIA's facility, the farm.

During that eventful weekend, of course, Kennedy's body was flown back to Washington and subjected to a controversial autopsy. That same weekend, Jack Ruby, a Dallas nightclub operator and hustler, whom Robert Kennedy's Justice Department investigators quickly connected to the Mafia, shot down accused JFK assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, conveniently silencing him forever. And throughout that fateful weekend, the grief stricken Attorney General made a series of frantic inquiries into the murder of his brother.

We know from the nature of these inquiries that Bobby Kennedy immediately suspected his brother was the victim of the CIA and the Mafia, the intelligence agency's junior partner in the murder business.

in other words, Robert Kennedy, the nation's top lawman and the president's devoted protector, a man who had spent much of his own life investigating the dark side of American power, immediately concluded that his brother had been the victim of the same CIA killing machine that had been directed at Fidel Castro and other world leaders deemed trouble.

This machine, built by Allen Dulles in the 1950s, had essentially been brought home to kill the President of the United States. It was a killing machine comprised of contract assassins, cut-outs, underworld operators and other unsavory types and overseen by the Ivy League swashbucklers whom Dulles had recruited to enforce U.S. interests around the world...

PS: There's a ton more from the presentation, including stuff from three of the people Talbot thanked or mentioned. Details on that are at the link to the OP at the very top.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

K & R !!! WillyT May 2014 #1
The State Targets Dissenters Not Just 'Bad Guys' Octafish May 2014 #19
patriots, boys, patriots grasswire May 2014 #37
Best post evah! Vattel May 2014 #46
Excellent !!! - K & R !!! WillyT May 2014 #54
I'm thinking that there's a conundrum here.... BlancheSplanchnik May 2014 #66
Because it's very different. Also, the USG is both buying AND selling our info in the marketplace. merrily May 2014 #85
that point you explained about our info in the marketplace BlancheSplanchnik May 2014 #153
No, not completely one sided. merrily May 2014 #154
your explanation (including the previous one) was very good BlancheSplanchnik May 2014 #171
What snark? merrily May 2014 #173
I thought you were being snarky to me-- BlancheSplanchnik May 2014 #181
It was not intentional. In fact, I had edited my original version of that sentence merrily May 2014 #182
ok, good then. BlancheSplanchnik May 2014 #184
Good! merrily May 2014 #186
Actually, the Bill of Rights does not "give" us our rights. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #202
Yes, no and maybe. I stand by my statement, as it was phrased, in the context in which I made it. merrily Jun 2014 #215
And the person or entity to whom or which your information, your personal JDPriestly Jun 2014 #201
Oh, I know...that's more what I was thinking when I first posted, actually. BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2014 #216
To "the State," dissenters ARE the bad guys (and gals). merrily May 2014 #84
There is a USG preference for the American Right Le Taz Hot May 2014 #93
I think it's because most government and goverment defenders are the right. merrily May 2014 #95
There is the left and then there is the left. Le Taz Hot May 2014 #101
I agree that there is the left and then there is the left. (We need some new vocabulary words, but merrily May 2014 #105
K & R n/t Hotler May 2014 #150
Thanks for posting. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #200
Recommend! and...Here's Tom Englehardt's Introduction.. Also a Good Read KoKo May 2014 #2
Thanks for posting that. JDPriestly May 2014 #43
Thanks..and if you go to the link he has news reports to back up all of his statements KoKo May 2014 #50
Obama Directive Makes Mere Citing of Snowden Leaks Punishable Offense Octafish May 2014 #155
Glad to get here before the "Snowden is a traitor" folks. zeemike May 2014 #3
Oh come on now ...get with it. Peoples jobs depend on stripper polls. L0oniX May 2014 #6
Is this some kind of federal holiday that the anti-Snowden crowd is taking off? JDPriestly Jun 2014 #203
Dunno L0oniX Jun 2014 #211
Rather than protect the First Amendment, they attack the whistleblower and the reporter. Octafish May 2014 #69
I had never heard of him zeemike May 2014 #76
Me too. I was going to say that sound you hear is the security-state apologists heads exploding. nt silvershadow May 2014 #77
We shall know the truth, and the Truth will set us free Demeter May 2014 #4
K & R " What They Fear Is Light" indeed! L0oniX May 2014 #5
good read. BlancheSplanchnik May 2014 #7
indeed grasswire May 2014 #28
K&R pscot May 2014 #8
How can anyone not get that he is a hero of epic proporations, with a fearless heart of justice? DesertDiamond May 2014 #9
I have no idea. The fact that there are some "Snowden is a traitor" people Nay May 2014 #13
Because he also told China which of their systems we were spying on Recursion May 2014 #70
And This Matters To You Why? - Seems Irrelevant To Others - Further Where Is The Proof? cantbeserious May 2014 #86
As the poster himself said, making it about "Snowden bad" or "Greenwald bad" merrily May 2014 #87
Yes - The Cognitive Dissonance In Left Leaning Authoritarians Is Surely Debilitating cantbeserious May 2014 #88
The left lionized Ellsberg for revealing info that happened to embarrass a Democratic President. merrily May 2014 #90
This *did* hit the fan during the Bush administration. Does nobody else remember 2005? Recursion May 2014 #92
Are you saying th left all supportive of Bush at that time? Is that your point about my post? merrily May 2014 #103
I'm saying comparing illegal to legal surveillance is apples and oranges Recursion May 2014 #115
No, you did not say that at all, or that's what I would have responded to. merrily May 2014 #117
Congress can pass any law it wants, at which point the sanctioned activity is "legal" Recursion May 2014 #118
No, that is "merely wrong." Violations of the Constitution do not become legal when Congress merrily May 2014 #119
So, I see you completely avoided my question Recursion May 2014 #120
I had already answered your question. BTW, how many of my questions and point have you avoided merrily May 2014 #122
There it is again Recursion May 2014 #124
Well, now you've resorted to pretending I said things I never said. Know another word for that? merrily May 2014 #125
Umm.. no, it's exactly what you said Recursion May 2014 #126
Nope. I never said it. I did say that you already had my answer on Tice. merrily May 2014 #127
Ignorance is bliss for trolling behavior. Ichingcarpenter May 2014 #121
Yes, thank you. I know. merrily May 2014 #123
No. Congress did not make all of what the NSA is doing legal. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #206
He did not show us documents. That made the difference. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #205
There will be no difference in reaction from the real left. Le Taz Hot May 2014 #98
Wait for the "No True Scotsman" replies. merrily May 2014 #106
I decided to get involved with my local Democrat party Le Taz Hot May 2014 #109
Yes. merrily May 2014 #111
We get here through different paths. Le Taz Hot May 2014 #113
Here is where I MAY being going next: merrily May 2014 #128
Oh, sorry, this is a link to the post where I began merrily May 2014 #129
Glad to see you are supporting Elizabeth Warren. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #207
Why does what matter to me? Proof of what? Recursion May 2014 #91
Do you mean the South China Morning Post? Is this the interview you're referencing? merrily May 2014 #108
All Allegations - No Proof Provided - Sound And Fury Signifying Nothing cantbeserious May 2014 #139
We should see a link soon. merrily May 2014 #112
I guess we won't be seeing that link after all. merrily May 2014 #130
Do you seriously think that China and Russia did not know which of their systems JDPriestly Jun 2014 #204
Because at least some of this happened under Obama's watch. alarimer May 2014 #183
No matter how paranoid or conspiracy-minded you are... alterfurz May 2014 #10
That is a great quote by William Blum. Octafish May 2014 #51
And no matter how much of an establishment apologist you are, merrily May 2014 #110
I hope Comrade Snowden or Rand Paul has a leading role.... nt Cryptoad May 2014 #11
In violating our Constitutional rights? Paul, possibly. Snowden, no. merrily May 2014 #114
How come Snowdens Dossier doesn't even match Historic NY May 2014 #12
That's one thing I want to know, too. Octafish May 2014 #14
Yes, that's what I, too, thought the issue was. merrily May 2014 #132
For one, NSA vs CIA employment. Octafish May 2014 #149
Snowden has what H2O Man May 2014 #34
Yeah, I was wondering that too (nt) Recursion May 2014 #80
The discrepancies between bios are the issue, not the Constitution? merrily May 2014 #131
He is/was a spy. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #208
Hardly... Historic NY Jun 2014 #210
"That meant the NSA was secretly and indiscriminately collecting the telephone records yodermon May 2014 #15
Legality is only one issue Distant Quasar May 2014 #17
The case cited by the poster does not dispose of the legality issue as to what is going on now. merrily May 2014 #134
The applicability of Smith v. Maryland to the NSA's blanket surveillance activities is questionable. Maedhros May 2014 #36
Agreed. Distinguishable on the facts. Very distinguishable. JDPriestly May 2014 #45
exactly Vattel May 2014 #74
Agree, but I would say it's much more than problematic. merrily May 2014 #135
I found this article helpful: Maedhros May 2014 #156
Thank you. I looked quickly at the wiki of the case this morning. merrily May 2014 #157
Thank you for the words of support. Maedhros May 2014 #162
You are most welcome (as are your posts). merrily May 2014 #164
P.S. I really don't want the SCOTUS to get its hands on this. merrily May 2014 #165
Court opinions on whether something is legal or not Vattel May 2014 #48
You do understand that the court is there literally for the purpose of interpreting the law... right TroglodyteScholar May 2014 #62
That is the usual misunderstanding. Vattel May 2014 #63
Interpretations can change, of course TroglodyteScholar May 2014 #64
Trog, you are right. Case law can overturn statute law. Marbury v. Madison, 1803. Manifestor_of_Light May 2014 #67
To be fair, you have to admit that you are moving the goal posts a bit Vattel May 2014 #73
Don't conflate a court interpreting a statute--which Congress can overrule by enacting a new law-- merrily May 2014 #159
I didn't conflate those two things, did I? Vattel May 2014 #167
Your post sure seemed to conflate them. merrily May 2014 #175
hmmm, weird Vattel May 2014 #179
PS merrily May 2014 #163
Nothing you say here is incorrect nor does it contradict what I said. So we agree! Vattel May 2014 #166
None of my posts to you were incorrect. merrily May 2014 #176
Google "Gov. George Wallace denied a Supreme Court decision was the law of the land." merrily May 2014 #158
Here I am afraid you are incorrect. Vattel May 2014 #168
In what respect, Vattel? merrily May 2014 #174
The point is kind of pedantic, but even when a court does overturn an earlier decision Vattel May 2014 #180
Yes, it does. Unless and until Plessy was overturned, it was the law of the land. merrily May 2014 #185
You are quite right that in the case of common law, judges make law and and change law. Vattel May 2014 #189
Please read my post again. I never said that judges amended the constitution. merrily May 2014 #194
Please read my post again. I never said that you did say that. Vattel May 2014 #195
Not in those exact words, but that was the implication, given that the subject was whether judges merrily May 2014 #198
Sorry, that case is easily distinguished. merrily May 2014 #133
FYI: At least one federal court judge has said the NSA collection of date is merrily May 2014 #143
There is no court decision holding that the government has the authority JDPriestly Jun 2014 #209
K & R!!!!!! n/t Holly_Hobby May 2014 #16
Highly recommend. n/t Jefferson23 May 2014 #18
Glenn Greenwald just revealed that NSA is intercepting packages Stainless May 2014 #20
So no spying? No wiretaps? No investigations? What a perfect world you must live in. randome May 2014 #21
Our Constitution is a contract entered into by representatives of the people of the US. JDPriestly May 2014 #29
Once more: are American citizens the targets or not? randome May 2014 #39
If you read the article in the OP, then you know the answer. JDPriestly May 2014 #47
Oh, the metadata again. randome May 2014 #49
The Social Security Administration does not compile and analyze your data with huge JDPriestly May 2014 #60
If the laws need to be updated, I don't have a problem with that. Why would I? randome May 2014 #104
A couple of other whistleblowers tried to warn us without bringing out the huge array of JDPriestly May 2014 #172
So many things backasswards LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #30
I am afraid of nothing. randome May 2014 #41
That must be why you think the Constitution is 'old and outmoded.' Octafish May 2014 #58
+100 nt Mojorabbit May 2014 #78
Which still avoids answering, let alone, asking, the question of whom the NSA monitors. randome May 2014 #96
Exactly. It's modified legally only by amendment. Let someone put a modification to a vote. merrily May 2014 #137
Wow. Marr May 2014 #152
Truth to ones allies? LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #160
'Allies' as in liberal thinkers of DU. Not 'allies' as in international espionage. randome May 2014 #161
No they'll never end spying, its been going on since mankind first days LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #191
We do have public oversight of the NSA. Not enough, admittedly. randome May 2014 #192
Freeedom is not possible... nikto May 2014 #40
Once more: are the actions of the NSA directed at American citizens or not? randome May 2014 #42
How is it that you know the answer as to whether the NSA's actions are directed at American JDPriestly May 2014 #53
I don't know the answer, although I have my inclinations. randome May 2014 #99
You have just made my argument. JDPriestly May 2014 #177
Why play games? YES. Octafish May 2014 #55
And was this info from the NSA provided as a consequence of international monitoring? randome May 2014 #100
So why continue to spew the company line when you're both shown wrong? Octafish May 2014 #147
There is no 'company line' for me. randome May 2014 #148
+1000000 The denial is beyond absurd at this point. woo me with science May 2014 #187
Wow nikto May 2014 #61
The way to rid the Bill of Rights of the Fourth Amendment (and others) is merrily May 2014 #82
Not sure why this needs to continue to be stated. randome May 2014 #94
It does when government is involved. merrily May 2014 #97
Sorry, I made the wrong point. randome May 2014 #116
Assuming you are correct, and I don't yet know of a reason to assume that, merrily May 2014 #136
A fair point but if we start mandating that our laws apply to the world... randome May 2014 #142
"If we start mandating?" The Constitution was ratified in 1789. merrily May 2014 #146
Well, at least bringing up that point out of nowhere spared you from the Constitutional issues. merrily May 2014 #107
The NSA was not supposed to turn its powers on the citizens of the United States. Octafish May 2014 #24
New business for IT folks -- debugging NSA spyware. ancianita May 2014 #33
K N R DirkGently May 2014 #22
Thanks for posting. JEB May 2014 #23
This should answer the question as to whether Snowden was a patsy. JDPriestly May 2014 #25
Well, the question was whether Greenwald was a patsy (or at least dupe) Recursion May 2014 #71
Many here at the "Underground" fear the same thing villager May 2014 #26
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast May 2014 #27
Naive, self-serving. moondust May 2014 #31
I think we are gonna see a lot more unsettling relevations Ichingcarpenter May 2014 #32
"Organized crime." JDPriestly May 2014 #56
Seeing how CIA has done business with NAZIs, Mafia, and Wall Street, yes. Octafish May 2014 #59
Yes. I know about Gehlen. I will have to read Blowback. Somehow I missed it. Thanks. JDPriestly May 2014 #75
K&R#80 n/t bobthedrummer May 2014 #35
Hating Snowden=Hating freedom=hating privacy=hating AMERICA nikto May 2014 #38
Sunlight = Democracy Agony May 2014 #44
Absolutely! Octafish May 2014 #72
The US is a republic, but sunlight is necessary for that as well. merrily May 2014 #138
NO ONE IS GONNA BUY YOUR BOOK GLENNY Capt. Obvious May 2014 #52
He's a poopiehead!!! QC May 2014 #57
nanabooboo merrily May 2014 #83
actually, I am.... mike_c May 2014 #178
. MohRokTah May 2014 #65
Rec 840high May 2014 #68
Gratias, Amatorem Veritatis. DeSwiss May 2014 #79
Whut?! No "transparency"?!?! blkmusclmachine May 2014 #81
To Greenwald's and Snowden's detractors and propaganists Le Taz Hot May 2014 #89
Agree. Disturbing to watch. djean111 May 2014 #102
And puzzling. merrily May 2014 #140
"I say, you are traitors to this country and to it's citizens" ProSense May 2014 #144
It's so cheesy, it makes my teeth hurt. randome May 2014 #145
+10000 I wish I could rec this post. It should be on the top of every forum. woo me with science May 2014 #169
Göbbels 101 Octafish May 2014 #190
^^^this^^^ ...and for those making K&R notes - K & R L0oniX Jun 2014 #212
Let there be light. merrily May 2014 #141
K&R. Great interview on Democracy Now yesterday. Overseas May 2014 #151
This thread was worth logging in to rec. Thank you, Octafish. woo me with science May 2014 #170
K & R Quantess May 2014 #188
Kick n/t bobthedrummer May 2014 #193
This deserves to stay on top. nt woo me with science May 2014 #196
kick woo me with science May 2014 #197
kick woo me with science May 2014 #199
punt L0oniX Jun 2014 #213
kick L0oniX Jun 2014 #214
kick woo me with science Jun 2014 #217
kick woo me with science Jun 2014 #218
kick woo me with science Jun 2014 #219
kick woo me with science Jun 2014 #220
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