General Discussion

joshcryer

(62,536 posts)

109. "woo" doesn't provide constructive debate.

Mon May 19, 2014, 12:57 AM

May 2014

I've stopped trying to actually have a discussion with them before because they just paste a wall of links and scurry off whenever their disingenuous posts get called out.

At least Manny replies constructively when I go dig out the information.

The fact of the matter is the Common Dreams article is out of touch with reality, does not recognize that this is a WIP in order to reduce costs, and that in fact the rules "invite comment on the application of the out-of-pocket limitation to the use of reference based pricing," "should be required to meet to ensure that individuals have meaningful access to medically appropriate, quality care," "provided the plan uses a reasonable method to ensure that it provides adequate access to quality providers."

So, in short, they're trying out "reference-based pricing structure" but it's not set in stone, and if it fails to meet the stringent quality standards required by the ACA, it will be changed. I swear, some people need to dig out a book on administrative law sometime and just learn something.

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Obama administration quietly approves new Obamacare loophole benefiting insurance companies. [View all] woo me with science May 2014 OP

sad NJCher May 2014 #1

It's often extremely depressing, with corporate-purchased government, woo me with science May 2014 #2

Obama Betrays Us Again billhicks76 May 2014 #51

Nice to see the GOP still getting its way, all these years later. blkmusclmachine May 2014 #96

So True billhicks76 May 2014 #110

But we don't have single payer right now. We have a system under which the hospitals pnwmom May 2014 #3

The pressure won't fall on the hospitals to cut costs as much as it will on individuals to pay up Fumesucker May 2014 #6

Exactly. truedelphi May 2014 #17

They are supposed to send the tests to contracted labs lark May 2014 #23

yes, my provider sucked up the cost when some of my hopemountain May 2014 #129

Single payer is the answer lark May 2014 #186

But this says it opens the door for insurance companies to set prices. cui bono May 2014 #11

Why? If one hospital facility in a city charges $2000 for a colonoscopy pnwmom May 2014 #30

re: colonoscopy cost LiberalElite May 2014 #34

That is obscene. Hope your insurance company negotiated a more reasonable japple May 2014 #42

I paid a couple hundred for the biopsy LiberalElite May 2014 #45

Typically those are cheaper than hospitals - Ms. Toad May 2014 #58

Wow. You've just demonstrated the problem. I don't know if reference pricing pnwmom May 2014 #68

For one thing, all colonoscopies are not equal. Ms. Toad May 2014 #54

I'm talking about the price a hospital will charge for a standard screening colonoscopy. pnwmom May 2014 #69

Hers isn't labeled (or charged) any differently than a standard screening colonoscopy Ms. Toad May 2014 #73

Would it be possible to develop a system that assigned patients like your daughter pnwmom May 2014 #74

This system right now is that we have selected a doctor Ms. Toad May 2014 #76

And why should getting medical care be like shopping for a used car? Doctor_J May 2014 #62

It already is. I don't see how this would make it worse. pnwmom May 2014 #72

I agree! burrowowl May 2014 #107

+10000000. Note the blatantly false implications being offered in defense of this assault: woo me with science May 2014 #84

You do understand what is being said here? davekriss May 2014 #86

I think it would depend on how insurers are allowed to set the reference price. pnwmom May 2014 #90

ACA was supposed to be something new--and more, well, affordable, not less. merrily May 2014 #121

But we DON'T know how bad this is going to be, because, as I said, pnwmom May 2014 #123

All DUers are not progressives; and neither all DUers nor all progressives always assume the worst. merrily May 2014 #124

The OP story is written by one writer with his or her point of view. pnwmom May 2014 #125

Again, if no one understand the ramifications of this, why take any position at all? merrily May 2014 #126

I'm not saying that it's impossible to understand. I'm saying that this one Common Dreams pnwmom May 2014 #127

You said we can't understand it without more info. Whose fault is it that we don't have more info? merrily May 2014 #128

Your fault, pnwmom May 2014 #131

Heroic try, but no, it's not my fault that the Admin did not inform Americans. merrily May 2014 #133

This is a work in progress and the government depends on feedback pnwmom May 2014 #135

Again that was not my question, but since you moved the goalpost to the future-- merrily May 2014 #136

The Obama administration couldn't force Congress to pass the public option. pnwmom May 2014 #140

Highly untrue. The cake was baked before it ever got to Congress. merrily May 2014 #143

The Democrats did not have enough votes to overcome the filibuster. pnwmom May 2014 #147

Did they seek our feedback before deciding? Do you, even now, have merrily May 2014 #137

This isn't a decision written in stone. It's a preliminary decision in an ongoing situation pnwmom May 2014 #139

this is why I have proposed that any and all Agony May 2014 #145

"why should the insurers be bound to pay 80% of either charge?" Heywood J May 2014 #175

What do you mean by "oppens the door?" They have been setting prices all along nt kelliekat44 May 2014 #138

I didn't write the phrase, it was in the OP. n/t cui bono May 2014 #221

No, we don't have single payer, but what does that have to do with the waiver publicized in the OP merrily May 2014 #116

I think the waiver might possibly have been intended to let companies selling to individuals pnwmom May 2014 #117

First, so? ACA changed what large group insurers have always been doing and that is exactly merrily May 2014 #118

"We have a system in which hospitals can charge anything they want ..." is laughably wrong. Scuba May 2014 #149

Some hospitals charge ten times as much as others for a colonoscopy in the same city. pnwmom May 2014 #154

It doesn't matter what they charge - at least to Medicare, Medicaid and insurance companies... Scuba May 2014 #155

If that is already the case, then why the uproar here over the "new" regulation? n/t pnwmom May 2014 #189

Which uproar? What "new" regulation? Scuba May 2014 #190

Slowly, one by one, the modest benefits of the ACA Maedhros May 2014 #4

Corporatist president run amok. Ed Suspicious May 2014 #18

The ACA had two goals: Maedhros May 2014 #71

Well said, except that I would qualify #2. woo me with science May 2014 #93

It was also to help medical providers, especially hospitals, and maybe merrily May 2014 #120

& give big crapsurance enough $$$ to lobby away any real reform in the ACA. grahamhgreen May 2014 #223

Ding ding ding! Exactly! They'll take their mandated trillions and 'lobby' away any good reforms. grahamhgreen May 2014 #112

Not really Shivering Jemmy May 2014 #156

Well, your superbly crafted argument has certainly quelled all of MY concerns. [n/t] Maedhros May 2014 #188

The way it was intended too be. SammyWinstonJack May 2014 #163

he really got me with that hope and change crap leftyohiolib May 2014 #5

He probably would have got me but I was paying attention during the FISA vote Fumesucker May 2014 #8

The more things "Change," the more THEY STAY THE SAME !!! blkmusclmachine May 2014 #99

Or get much worse. woo me with science May 2014 #104

One nation, under Wall Street... Octafish May 2014 #7

What a boost for GOTV efforts! 1000words May 2014 #9

See posts 63 and 81. woo me with science May 2014 #87

Good cop/Bad cop 1000words May 2014 #89

I'm not so sure the DC DEMS want to win in Nov. More DEMS could make "bi-partisanship" a harder sell blkmusclmachine May 2014 #100

I'm not sure this is bad if one is interested in reducing cost. Canada has used it Hoyt May 2014 #10

Consumer choice in medical care is a myth. An illusion. Try to find the price of an MRI from your Ed Suspicious May 2014 #20

It is really so much simpler than that. You guys are really making this more difficult than it is. Hoyt May 2014 #43

+1 IronLionZion May 2014 #146

I see absolutely zero reason why anyone should spend their precious hours Heywood J May 2014 #181

Well said. The mocking defense of this assault just shows woo me with science May 2014 #195

You don't have to shop around, your insurance company will tell you closest hospital that meets Hoyt May 2014 #203

Hmm, this sounds a whole lot like the old "reasonable and customary" crap. lark May 2014 #26

No, it's different because you'll have the tools to avoid paying extra out-of-pocket if you take Hoyt May 2014 #50

Actually - it sounds like worse. Ms. Toad May 2014 #60

As usual, those who can afford it the LEAST... bvar22 May 2014 #12

Yes, we need Single Payer and corporate money out. How are YOU going to make that happen? RBInMaine May 2014 #13

Yes. salib May 2014 #19

This was an Obama admin. on the sly/back room deal with Big Insurance Divernan May 2014 #44

.... Phlem May 2014 #185

Here is what Obama's nominee for HHS thinks about single payer. pa28 May 2014 #208

I expected nothing more Demeter May 2014 #14

It's more likely the employer in short run, and society in long run, will benefit. Hoyt May 2014 #27

Canada and Europe did not make middleman part of the system by law Doctor_J May 2014 #98

I would suggest you look up drug coverage in Canada and how private insurance Hoyt May 2014 #114

"ObamaCare" was originally a Republican-hatched WET DREAM out of the Heritage Foundation, circa blkmusclmachine May 2014 #102

This country should be ashamed of itself for not having universal healthcare. EEO May 2014 #15

This country should be ashamed of itself for a great many things. nt Javaman May 2014 #38

And for a great long time. Some seem to think the shame all starts with this President. n/t Whisp May 2014 #206

Nice user name. AAO May 2014 #85

This could really hurt my family salib May 2014 #16

A lot of us here tried to put up a good fight for people in truedelphi May 2014 #21

I see your point. However, I have really never heard may say "Medicaid for All". salib May 2014 #29

This does not change your out of pocket max krawhitham May 2014 #24

From what I read in the DOL reference from the Article, I STILL HAVE TO PAY salib May 2014 #32

Q2, Q3, & Q4 are all listed under Limitations on Cost-Sharing under the Affordable Care Act krawhitham May 2014 #41

I really wish that your conclusions were true salib May 2014 #47

CalPERS has been using reference pricing for several years. Emergencies don't fall under RPricing. Hoyt May 2014 #56

I feel your pain. It's a disgusting system designed to confuse. The consumer was never meant to Ed Suspicious May 2014 #25

"It is bullshit. You know it is." woo me with science May 2014 #106

It sounds like this goes above/beyond deductibles and annual OOP limits? Cal Carpenter May 2014 #22

All the good stuff is quietly approved. zeemike May 2014 #28

Note the absurd attempts to spin this already. woo me with science May 2014 #31

Yes, absurd. salib May 2014 #33

And when you go far enough down the road you get to the crossroad zeemike May 2014 #35

Once everything good has finally been taken out of ObamaCare, all that'll be left is the TAX. blkmusclmachine May 2014 #103

the absudity comes for the many ASSumptions Sheepshank May 2014 #216

Still pissed smallcat88 May 2014 #36

How come the Obama can never do wrong crowd are always absent from these threads oneofthe99 May 2014 #37

Michelle does look beautiful. McCamy Taylor May 2014 #40

Michelle Obama is an intelligent caring woman who is the First Lady of the United States Cha May 2014 #92

Actually, like most of these Obama-is-out-to-screw-us-threads, those in the "know" come along later. Hoyt May 2014 #59

LMAO Jeeze. L0oniX May 2014 #199

Have you researched this issue, or are you just going along with the he's-screwed-us-again-crowd? Hoyt May 2014 #202

Perhaps you stopped reading too soon? Read on, oh wise one, read on! Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #65

So this is where the Obama Can Do No Right crowd is? No wonder the other thread Number23 May 2014 #79

"Obamacare saved consumers billions, new report finds" which doesn't interest those Cha May 2014 #97

Well, they've rallied up the Truthiness Crew and the recs are a'pouring in now! Number23 May 2014 #119

I think they're pissed cuz the rally was a big fail! Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #178

Administration sock-puppets to explain how down is up in 3 - 2 - 1 ... blkmusclmachine May 2014 #105

Explain to who? I don't count you. Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #179

This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science May 2014 #77

The propaganda brigade typically ignores OP's about Democratic betrayals until about 35-40 recs, woo me with science May 2014 #78

It takes a little time for the PM "phone tree" to get going. 1000words May 2014 #101

"woo" doesn't provide constructive debate. joshcryer May 2014 #109

This is how it already is with private insurance. Indeed, they can decide after the surgery to pay McCamy Taylor May 2014 #39

The reporting seems to be confused Egnever May 2014 #48

Yes, private insurance sucks. We know that. That's why making them a permanent part of Doctor_J May 2014 #49

Hey look it's dishonest reporting again.. Egnever May 2014 #46

It IS honest & dated May, 2014. Divernan May 2014 #53

You left out some good quotes from your own link. Hoyt May 2014 #57

Glad to see someone digging for the truth in all the bitter screaming davidpdx May 2014 #130

Another transfer of cost and pain from corporations to ordinary people. woo me with science May 2014 #83

OP is dishonest. Sheepshank May 2014 #214

Of course it's "dishonest reporting." ProSense May 2014 #61

Yea I know Egnever May 2014 #64

Why read anything when you can just label EVERYTHING that disagrees with your ill informed Number23 May 2014 #80

Shocked. Shocked I am...nt SidDithers May 2014 #91

"adequate access to quality providers" joshcryer May 2014 #111

Yup Egnever May 2014 #201

SURELY YOU JEST!!!! Whisp May 2014 #207

I would think this is for out-of-network coverage ramapo May 2014 #52

Sounds like a loophole the GOP could exploit. Kablooie May 2014 #55

Obama doesn't care. He seems to be campaigning for a Republican congress anyway Doctor_J May 2014 #63

I suspect that's exactly what they are doing. It's worth reposting this: woo me with science May 2014 #81

I cannot see it any other way. Enthusiast May 2014 #150

It's even simpler than that: Dems are fine losing midterms so they can use repuke congress as a Foil yodermon May 2014 #177

Spin it!!... SidDithers May 2014 #66

Culling the herd. WinkyDink May 2014 #67

Thank you to all the people who debunked this OP Cali_Democrat May 2014 #70

There was not a single post that successfully debunked the OP. Enthusiast May 2014 #151

Actually...this thread has not only been debunked, it's now great flypaper for determining msanthrope May 2014 #187

Every single insurance policy sold have these sobenji May 2014 #75

In the past they negotiated rates with health care providers. Jesus Malverde May 2014 #173

Of course they are still negotiating rates sobenji May 2014 #220

That Woo-Democratic President!!!1 n/t UTUSN May 2014 #82

The insurance racket is now a partner with government and is too big to fail. Jesus Malverde May 2014 #88

If the insurer pays $1000 less for a procedure, $800 goes to the policyholders bornskeptic May 2014 #205

This regulation change applies to even private employer insurance, not sure what the government Jesus Malverde May 2014 #217

This seems to be part of the plan. It's not a "mistake," or 11-dimensional chess. It's something blkmusclmachine May 2014 #94

Why the outrage at the insurance companies? The Obama admin did this. The ACA did this. Skip Intro May 2014 #95

K&R DeSwiss May 2014 #108

+100000 "...As is most of the population." woo me with science May 2014 #113

+a billion nationalize the fed May 2014 #122

Their fear is that we'll wake-up one day..... DeSwiss May 2014 #134

Plus one a whole bunch. Enthusiast May 2014 #152

Double K & R L0oniX May 2014 #200

"this shows that an insurance-driven health system is doomed to fail." merrily May 2014 #115

I believe South Korea uses prices that are fixed for procedures as well davidpdx May 2014 #132

Some experts are concerned. Jesus Malverde May 2014 #218

With emergency surgery, no time to check out prices. This is indefensible. madfloridian May 2014 #141

Thanks to Obama care... 951-Riverside May 2014 #142

The subsidies are paid by taxpayers to the corporate profitmongers. woo me with science May 2014 #148

Thanks to Obamacare, I was turned into a newt. IronLionZion May 2014 #169

I agree. We must have single payer. Enthusiast May 2014 #144

The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us cantbeserious May 2014 #153

I am beginning to heaven05 May 2014 #157

My agenda? DeSwiss May 2014 #159

I have no problem with the oligarchy heaven05 May 2014 #161

I don't blame him either. DeSwiss May 2014 #164

no deflection or obscuring intended heaven05 May 2014 #170

Some people think attacking these reforms will somehow bring us single payer IronLionZion May 2014 #168

thanks for the lucid clarification heaven05 May 2014 #171

All of our forward momentum was wasted. raouldukelives May 2014 #158

Is Obama intent on making sure humbled_opinion May 2014 #160

The new strategy works like this: ... Jesus Malverde May 2014 #162

WOW OMG! is right! SammyWinstonJack May 2014 #166

Very misleading ProSense May 2014 #172

Sorry prosense this is about IN NETWORK providers. Jesus Malverde May 2014 #176

This is horrifying, and the article clearly states that it applies in-network. woo me with science May 2014 #191

The true measure of the success or failure of the ACA Maedhros May 2014 #193

+10000000000 woo me with science May 2014 #196

The ACA is emblematic of the failings of the Democratic Party on a wider scale. Maedhros May 2014 #197

Greed, money, politics... davidthegnome May 2014 #165

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #167

This is all alarmist conjecture, and is really no different than the way the system is now. cbdo2007 May 2014 #174

It's very different Jesus Malverde May 2014 #180

Exactly: the ACA is really no different than the way the system is now. Maedhros May 2014 #194

Too much bullshit to endure. JEB May 2014 #182

Obamacare both guarantees 20% margins to the for-profit insurers AND $2500 savings to each American. Romulox May 2014 #183

No it requires that 80% be paid out for care or paid back to the customer. IronLionZion May 2014 #198

Yes, this has been extensively discussed here. They have *guaranteed* their obscene profits woo me with science May 2014 #219

Fucking thank you Obama.. BlueJac May 2014 #184

PLEASE DO NOT MISS POST 162 by Jesus Malverde. woo me with science May 2014 #192

Screwed again. GoneFishin May 2014 #204

No single payer according to Obama's HHS nominee. pa28 May 2014 #209

They've got the corporations' backs. woo me with science May 2014 #210

To me that looks like the end of the state single payer waiver. pa28 May 2014 #212

"has no intention of renewing (the state single payer waiver) for legislation after 2016." woo me with science May 2014 #213

Blessed insurance... Blue Owl May 2014 #211

Just Another Betrayal colsohlibgal May 2014 #215

We need price controls for everything in medicine. alarimer May 2014 #222

What an ProSense May 2014 #224