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The Velveteen Ocelot

(131,089 posts)

24. I have, in fact, spent time with Bible believers, and I didn't like it much.

Mon May 19, 2014, 12:22 PM

May 2014

Please don't condescend to me. I'm not snarking, and I don't make stuff up. I've discussed Biblical matters with some of these people, and my experience has been that they believe every word in the Bible is exactly and literally true, and that no other culture's myths or legends are relevant. Your own quote indicates that they believe only the Noah story, and that the Gilgamesh epic is merely a myth. In any event, the fact that Tyson discussed the Sumerian story and not the Noah story was probably enough to get their panties in a bunch.

There are many flood myths in many cultures, and it is most likely true that large, very damaging but nevertheless localized floods actually did occur. To people who never traveled more than a few miles away from their homes, a large flood probably seemed like it covered the whole world. The Gilgamesh/Noah legends don't prove a worldwide flood. To the extent the fundies refer to the Gilgamesh legend to support their claim that there was one is logically inconsistent. If Noah was literally true, why bother with Gilgamesh at all?

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Cosmos & Neil Degrasse Tyson state that Great Flood occurred in Sumeria & retold as Noah's Ark [View all] E-Z-B May 2014 OP

Thank You For Sharing cantbeserious May 2014 #1

My Catholic HS taught us that Noah's Ark and Creationism were BS AllTooEasy May 2014 #97

No, Noah's Ark totally happened nikto May 2014 #99

Same thing for my Catholic high school in 1962 eridani May 2014 #119

Pretty much the same in my Catholic H.S. TexasProgresive May 2014 #122

My Presbyterian minister taught the same thing. Allegory. riqster May 2014 #124

Hell, I went to a Catholic grammar school -- in the 1950's, yet -- and RVN VET May 2014 #138

Great show. He's building up to a big climax of telling all the repubs that they are idiots for FSogol May 2014 #2

I figured he would show that Reagan wasn't give a place in the stars despite Nancy's astrology. Spitfire of ATJ May 2014 #54

This show is my priority for the week. oldandhappy May 2014 #3

yes. northoftheborder May 2014 #102

God is only limited by, and only exists in, the imagination of humanity. JJChambers May 2014 #133

Noah, in the Sumerian story was named Utnapishtim lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #4

The ancient Hebrews just filed off the serial numbers and claimed the story as their own. hobbit709 May 2014 #5

Wasn't the boat cube-shaped? sakabatou May 2014 #157

This predates the rubic system, i.e. "Rubics cubits". n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #163

But the boat was a cube sakabatou May 2014 #164

Translating from Sumerian is probably problematic. lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #165

*shrugs* sakabatou May 2014 #166

retold as Gilgamesh before the Noah myth arely staircase May 2014 #6

What makes you think the flood was "localized"? (See: Titicaca, Lake.) WinkyDink May 2014 #42

because a flood covering the who earth seems implausible. nt arely staircase May 2014 #45

In those days they didn't realize there was a "whole earth" jmowreader May 2014 #58

sure but their known earth would be localized by real global standards nt arely staircase May 2014 #59

There was an episode of ancient aliens... Blanks May 2014 #83

I am guessing the Tigris and Euphrates flooded a lot arely staircase May 2014 #92

Sure, but they ancient alien episode... Blanks May 2014 #93

you lose me at ancient aliens every time. nt arely staircase May 2014 #94

I'm kind of joking... Blanks May 2014 #111

Ancient Aliens FlaGranny May 2014 #127

I know. Blanks May 2014 #160

Extinction Calista241 May 2014 #153

Are you trying to say Lake Titicaca was formed by a world-wide flood? nt Codeine May 2014 #103

You are refereing to the Tihanaco ruins (and terracing) from, at most, 1500 years ago intaglio May 2014 #113

What is the significance of Lake Titicaca? morningfog May 2014 #126

Saw it - imagined fundie heads exploding The Velveteen Ocelot May 2014 #7

Why? jberryhill May 2014 #8

Because it suggests that the Genesis story The Velveteen Ocelot May 2014 #13

Have you ever spent time with actual Bible believers? jberryhill May 2014 #20

I have, in fact, spent time with Bible believers, and I didn't like it much. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2014 #24

I have met many Christians that are like awoke_in_2003 May 2014 #51

Another fun one is asking fundies where they think angels came from. Ikonoklast May 2014 #21

Huh? Sgent May 2014 #155

Ice age melt. Teacheral May 2014 #31

Many intriguing possibilities with ice dams. Alternatively, Mediterranean & Black Sea Bernardo de La Paz May 2014 #33

'Believers' already have hand-waved that away for the reason the poster above you mentioned. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #40

Which is infuriating. NuclearDem May 2014 #17

Large parts of the Old Testament were written after the Babylonian exile & return. Bernardo de La Paz May 2014 #27

The aim of all those fundie laws to get creationism into the classroom is two-fold. First... Moonwalk May 2014 #69

Yeah this was a shot across the bow ... jimlup May 2014 #9

One would think the entire series was taped ahead of the season jberryhill May 2014 #11

Writing, pre-production, taping all done. Often editing is finishing an episode or two ahead. nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2014 #34

I think Dr. Tyson anticipated the rightwing/fundamentalist response..... LongTomH May 2014 #74

That's the only thing Bible-believers WON'T object to jberryhill May 2014 #10

Flood Myths Around the World PADemD May 2014 #12

Civilizations always grew up in river basins. MohRokTah May 2014 #18

Recommend PADemD May 2014 #38

Yeah. Ironically, Noah's Ark might wind up being "true" after all, in the future. Arugula Latte May 2014 #23

+1! Louisiana1976 May 2014 #76

Read Ben Elton's "Stark" Prophet 451 May 2014 #128

Where will the extra water come from? FiveGoodMen May 2014 #156

To whom? merrily May 2014 #117

Yes PADemD May 2014 #123

Good Television Diremoon May 2014 #14

Fox TV is very separate from Fox News. Note the animated comedy shows. nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2014 #35

Every time I watch the latest in the Cosmos series justhanginon May 2014 #15

I have noticed that they credit women (finally!) for a lot of important things. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2014 #26

Tyson has credited several women exboyfil May 2014 #44

Yes. What I meant by "(finally!)" was The Velveteen Ocelot May 2014 #50

We are in agreement then exboyfil May 2014 #52

K & R Iliyah May 2014 #16

A very good episode this week LibertyLover May 2014 #19

We started watching Cosmos on Hulu last week. The_Commonist May 2014 #22

banning cosmos? mehrrh May 2014 #25

"Why didn't Carl Sagan see this kind of controversy?" jberryhill May 2014 #29

Carl Sagan most definitely saw this kind of controversy. arcane1 May 2014 #46

He did get some flack about exboyfil May 2014 #55

Very good points! arcane1 May 2014 #70

mehrrh Diclotican May 2014 #63

Cosmos and "demonic possession?????" LongTomH May 2014 #75

Cosmos ran in 1980. Reagan didn't take office until 1981. After that, the valerief May 2014 #86

It also reran in 1981-82 sybylla May 2014 #104

. libodem May 2014 #28

Neil deGrasse Tyson is my new hero. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2014 #30

He is one smart and articulate cookie libodem May 2014 #32

Yep, he is one smart, credible dude ... oldhippie May 2014 #37

.... Duppers May 2014 #89

But that is my point, I don't necessarily believe a consensus ... oldhippie May 2014 #100

but Dr. Tyson is a scientist, only a well-known one. Duppers May 2014 #107

You find my opinion offensive? oldhippie May 2014 #137

Wow! GeorgeGist May 2014 #125

Thank you .... oldhippie May 2014 #136

And, Wow! Iggo May 2014 #161

Missoula Flood is a well documented more recent glacier event.....where I now live..... zwyziec May 2014 #36

And boulders from Montana are found hundreds of feet above the central scrutinizer May 2014 #98

Thanks for spoiling it. I have it on DVR. JohnnyRingo May 2014 #39

He did not quite go far enough nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #64

Not only did I see it, but I wrote down the guy's name�(Gilgemesh) (spelling?) for research. nt silvershadow May 2014 #41

Gilgamesh jtuck004 May 2014 #48

Ok Thank you. :D nt silvershadow May 2014 #139

epic of Gilgamesh in cartoon :) eShirl May 2014 #57

It was just Utnapishtim doing his civic duty... FailureToCommunicate May 2014 #132

I don't have a tv, so I didn't get to see it, but there is a class called "Heaven and Hell" taught jtuck004 May 2014 #43

That sounds like a fascinating class!! arcane1 May 2014 #47

One of the few really good ones. n/t jtuck004 May 2014 #49

Apparently he also has a class, "A Cultural History of Beer". I suspect that one jtuck004 May 2014 #81

No one needs a tv these days Egnever May 2014 #71

Thank you very much for the link. I will take advantage of it. jtuck004 May 2014 #72

No problem Egnever May 2014 #73

It's just a learned skill. Put some things in the ground and learn about them, and don't jtuck004 May 2014 #78

Well I am sure I am not helped Egnever May 2014 #82

5 gal buckets, shade, and a hose. You will grow better tomatoes jtuck004 May 2014 #84

I was told by a Jewish friend that the books of the Old Testament are not meant to be VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #53

E-Z-B Diclotican May 2014 #56

Every ancient culture has a flood story smallcat88 May 2014 #60

I heard that the melting of the ice may account for the legends of Atlantis. The rising waters E-Z-B May 2014 #62

Atlantis was a myth Prophet 451 May 2014 #129

Of course the explanation nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #67

... napkinz May 2014 #61

+1 million Louisiana1976 May 2014 #79

+ another million valerief May 2014 #91

+ another Million Duppers May 2014 #168

The study of geology got its start SheilaT May 2014 #65

for those climate change deniers napkinz May 2014 #66

:) napkinz May 2014 #68

I thought it was the creation of the Black Sea when the mediterranean rose after the ice age melt vkkv May 2014 #77

Mount Sinai is in the Sinai penninsula, between the Red Sea and modern-day Israel muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #121

Didn't see it, but it sounds good. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #80

I saw it, too, and loved it. I wish the series wouldn't end. Tyson is so engaging. valerief May 2014 #85

Please tell me he said it was a legend, and not that it 'occurred' muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #87

Sorry but there maybe.... whistler162 May 2014 #105

That 'controversial theory' doesn't actually have decent evidence for it muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #120

I can't wait to see the season. obxhead May 2014 #88

So far, Hiding in the Light has been my favorite episode, although I've enjoyed them all. valerief May 2014 #90

He did it beautifully. I know those stories, and have taught them... Hekate May 2014 #95

Missed it last night klook May 2014 #96

... napkinz May 2014 #101

am so stealing that. Duppers May 2014 #108

But it's in the Bible!! It's the the word of God!! We must believe believe believe believe YOHABLO May 2014 #106

Clap louder, Christians! backscatter712 May 2014 #147

Ancient Crash, Epic Wave Strelnikov_ May 2014 #109

Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood? Strelnikov_ May 2014 #110

Not to be trouble nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #142

We love it, too! cilla4progress May 2014 #112

Archeologists and anthropologists believe that the entire Adam and Eve truedelphi May 2014 #114

Damn they did not enforce copy right back then nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #115

You might enjoy how empowered the feminine is in this "different" telling of truedelphi May 2014 #116

People, thousands of years ago, trying to make sense of what happens to them and their merrily May 2014 #118

Can't wait for it to be shown here Prophet 451 May 2014 #130

Cosmos is slowly turning the tables on the Creationists. JoePhilly May 2014 #131

That man has a kind of Cool-Hand Luke quality to him Bucky May 2014 #134

I think Neil is wrong about that one. dawg May 2014 #135

Alas there is agreement as to what Neil covered among experts. nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #141

That means very little. People tend to localize myths and legends ... dawg May 2014 #144

What do they have in common? RIVERS nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #145

I still think it's more likely that the flood stories were inspired by something much larger ... dawg May 2014 #146

But experts do not agree nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #148

I still disagree. dawg May 2014 #150

And we have no evidence that something like that happened in the Neolithic nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #151

I enjoy thinking and arguing about things like this. dawg May 2014 #152

Yeah, we are taking bronze age nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #154

Without a doubt, there was no global flood. dawg May 2014 #158

and we know that from Mycenae nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #159

The other thing I loved about last night's Cosmos judy May 2014 #140

I think I remember Fundamentalists rejoicing about the war in Iraq. The destruction of Babylon E-Z-B May 2014 #143

Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Miles O�Brien slam CNN as the �Wal-Mart of journalism� napkinz May 2014 #149

+100 Duppers May 2014 #167

and here's a deeper discussion on Mesopotamian ties to their neighbors, yea and nay MisterP May 2014 #162

I just watched it d_r May 2014 #169