General Discussion

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)

108. Oh joy, the false equivalence game.

Tue May 20, 2014, 11:31 AM

May 2014

This bad thing has secrecy, so secrecy bad!!!!!!

So does a doctor's office. So does a psychologist. THEY MUST BE UP TO SOMETHING NEFARIOUS, EXACTLY LIKE A POLICE STATE!

Do you or do you not think that there is any actual need for intelligence activities being performed by the government? Are you going to make an argument that they have neither the need nor the *responsibility* to know as much as they can about the world in which they are forming policy beyond whatever other governments and organizations simply decide to tell them?

Or are you simply going to argue we do need it, we just don't need it to actually, you know, be effective or work so we can totally conduct intelligence activities in full view of any target of those activities and just expect them to let us?

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Photos of an NSA �upgrade� factory show Cisco router getting implant [View all] grahamhgreen May 2014 OP

Cue the apologists... villager May 2014 #1

Do you understand what this is talking about? gcomeau May 2014 #2

Do you? villager May 2014 #3

Oh stop the juvenile "talking points" bullshit and have a real discussion. gcomeau May 2014 #4

"Bullshit?" "Handwaving?" "Real discussion?" villager May 2014 #5

Oh for fuck sake grow the hell up. gcomeau May 2014 #6

"real discussion" "I'll give you your answer" villager May 2014 #10

Why are you asking me questions I just answered? gcomeau May 2014 #13

You stated where you think the NSA should be reigned in? And its operations overseen villager May 2014 #34

I stated that they are already reigned in. gcomeau May 2014 #38

Ah yes, "the NSA isn't violating any laws! The 'courts' are keeeping them in check!" villager May 2014 #40

Can you read? gcomeau May 2014 #56

Troll pscot May 2014 #64

They do seem to be out in force today villager May 2014 #66

Good luck with that. joshcryer May 2014 #94

maybe because everything you do write TorchTheWitch May 2014 #117

I'd imagine many more alternative exist; e.g., a dogmatic hack, possibly... LanternWaste May 2014 #12

Just want to chime in..... NCTraveler May 2014 #15

It's always been a problem, but it seems to just keep getting worse. gcomeau May 2014 #22

Agree with this response 100%. nt. NCTraveler May 2014 #23

Spot on! eom MohRokTah May 2014 #32

Let me tell you what Network Professionals think Aerows May 2014 #46

Yeah... gcomeau May 2014 #54

Woo Hoo! Aerows May 2014 #57

Wow, you are really off the deep end aren't you? gcomeau May 2014 #59

LOL Aerows May 2014 #61

You know another option... gcomeau May 2014 #62

Oh for fuck sake stop being such an aggressive jackass LondonReign2 May 2014 #70

Mmm... no. Thanks for the suggestion though. gcomeau May 2014 #72

after reading this thread so far, it's interesting the person trying to have an actual discussion KittyWampus May 2014 #77

Textbook irony. nt Bobbie Jo May 2014 #97

Laughable LondonReign2 May 2014 #100

Yeah... you might want to try actually reading the exchange... gcomeau May 2014 #101

Because... WE DON'T TRUST THEM !!!! WillyT May 2014 #7

Wow, compelling... gcomeau May 2014 #9

... WillyT May 2014 #14

You're just reinforcing my point, you get that right? gcomeau May 2014 #17

Wrongdoing with the Bush Administration, to boot. randome May 2014 #18

Did you catch PBS Frontline: "United States of Secrets" (Part One) this week? KoKo May 2014 #30

No, but I'll see if I can catch it later... gcomeau May 2014 #35

LOL, temper temper! Nap time? nt Logical May 2014 #112

Yes, we understand - they are spying on the wrong people, inciting wars, and destabilizing the world grahamhgreen May 2014 #47

Wow, you got all that from the photo? gcomeau May 2014 #52

No. I do understand your points. I hope you understand mine. What I'd like to see is evidence grahamhgreen May 2014 #102

In other words... gcomeau May 2014 #103

Yes. Why? They work for me and have zero credibility. They've jumped the shark and are over their grahamhgreen May 2014 #104

You understand that intelligence work... gcomeau May 2014 #105

So does a police state. They work for us. They are spying on us. They failed on 9-11 & Iraq. They grahamhgreen May 2014 #107

Oh joy, the false equivalence game. gcomeau May 2014 #108

Sure, but the NSA should not be performing them. They seem to have been corrupted by the neo-cons. grahamhgreen May 2014 #109

And how would that help? gcomeau May 2014 #110

Would you keep going back to the same doctors once you figured out that nothing was wrong with you, grahamhgreen May 2014 #111

Now you're making me repeat my earlier question gcomeau May 2014 #115

In my view, the NSA is not providing intelligence for the American people. They are willfully grahamhgreen May 2014 #121

Because you have access to that intelligence and can make that evaluation??? gcomeau May 2014 #122

What part of the NSA Charter allows them to gather intelligence on US Citizens domestically? Savannahmann May 2014 #71

What part of the activities described by this OP... gcomeau May 2014 #73

Because it's one part of the overall spying program Savannahmann May 2014 #75

Ah... another one of those. gcomeau May 2014 #76

You really should learn why NSA spying on Americans is so, uh, wrong. Octafish May 2014 #83

Perhaps first... gcomeau May 2014 #84

No. You first. Octafish May 2014 #86

Me first *what* exactly? gcomeau May 2014 #87

NSA spying on Americans is illegal. Octafish May 2014 #88

Good grief, are you even bothering to read what I'm typing? gcomeau May 2014 #89

That's why I wrote what I wrote. Octafish May 2014 #91

And... gcomeau May 2014 #93

right on schedule Supersedeas May 2014 #124

so my computer runs like shit because of the nsa and not the porn..... dembotoz May 2014 #8

It's probably the viruses you got from the porn jmowreader May 2014 #43

In any case, the apologists certainly arrived, like clockwork villager May 2014 #11

+1000 Katashi_itto May 2014 #19

the other day one was proclaiming m-lekktor May 2014 #21

So did the trolls. nt cstanleytech May 2014 #36

indeed, the pro-NSA trolls are here in force villager May 2014 #39

I wasnt talking about them. cstanleytech May 2014 #41

But you shoulda been -- they are here, sticking to script! villager May 2014 #42

Except they didnt show up until after someone posted a taunt that was sure to draw them in cstanleytech May 2014 #44

"We were made to do it!" villager May 2014 #67

True, the NSA has trolls here I am sure! nt Logical May 2014 #113

Well, that's what they get paid to do, isn't it! grahamhgreen May 2014 #49

So is this much noise made when the FBI wiretaps someone? randome May 2014 #16

I'm disappointed. I thought for sure you'd go with your 'there is no proof' argument. DesMoinesDem May 2014 #24

Again, what do you find objectionable here? randome May 2014 #26

I object that you didn't claim that the NSA newsletter wasn't proof of anything. DesMoinesDem May 2014 #28

No warrants. grahamhgreen May 2014 #55

From where does that leap of logic derive? randome May 2014 #78

nice to see the NSA use the baby blue console cable like the rest of the world snooper2 May 2014 #20

laws and technology melm00se May 2014 #25

Sadly, the laws seem to be "devolving," more than anything villager May 2014 #37

They already have...and broke the existing laws and tried to stop the new laws KoKo May 2014 #50

And this is evidence of what exactly ? Stingray steve May 2014 #27

I'm SHOCKED, SCHOCKED I SAY That our spy agencies actually, you know, SPY! eom MohRokTah May 2014 #60

I'm slightly more shocked at the outrage from congress critters Trekologer May 2014 #123

THEY'RE PROTECTING US FROM TERRORISTS! 951-Riverside May 2014 #29

You do realize... gcomeau May 2014 #63

Our "intelligence" and LE agencies.. sendero May 2014 #74

The traitor who divulged this belongs in prison MohRokTah May 2014 #31

The traitors shredding the 4th Amendment belong in prison villager May 2014 #33

And you think that this... Stingray steve May 2014 #45

And you think story in some way does not? villager May 2014 #85

How does the activity described above violate the 4th amendment? nt msanthrope May 2014 #48

I would agree with you. What is described in the story does NOT violate the 4th MohRokTah May 2014 #58

+ 1776 NT Octafish May 2014 #81

No, the traitors who shipped all our chip manufacturing to China deserve prison! grahamhgreen May 2014 #53

You should be more upset at the fact that this is happening. alarimer May 2014 #79

I'm PROUD this is happening. MohRokTah May 2014 #98

The NSA loves you being scared! nt Logical May 2014 #114

The tinfoil actually INCREASES the mind control rays! eom MohRokTah May 2014 #116

Terrorists are everywhere! They kill many weekly! Wait..... Logical May 2014 #119

Half of the folks in this thread, indeed most of them Aerows May 2014 #51

As you say, it's amazing how easily all of this is dismissed... villager May 2014 #65

It is regarded as strictly a political attack on President Obama Aerows May 2014 #68

Exactly. It's a strange, narrow panic-response, causing more and more rhetorical knots villager May 2014 #69

We've fallen a long way since Inslaw/PROMIS Octafish May 2014 #80

It's the same old thing, different day Aerows May 2014 #82

Now THERE"S a story! elias49 May 2014 #90

That photo does not show or prove shit krawhitham May 2014 #92

You should apply for a job elias49 May 2014 #95

Well, if there is any truth to it, moondust May 2014 #99

Maybe a non-tech user! LOL! nt Logical May 2014 #120

Hey grahamhgreen... Did You Catch This ??? WillyT May 2014 #96

K&R woo me with science May 2014 #106

Here is my take on this Aerows May 2014 #118