General Discussion

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)

121. Thank you for your thoughts and clarification ...

Tue May 20, 2014, 11:32 AM

May 2014

If you are still around, I would really like to further this discussion; but first wish to offer an apology. I have no (rather, little, problem with what you've written ... I believe that you have a good sense of what is going on and I really liked the "what they hear/what we hear" passage, in the original OP. My reaction to your being cited was based in what I, as a Person of Color, experience in many of these discussions, with a slightly different twist ... being told that my experience is equal to a white person's vicarious experience, and in this case ... apparently because you are married to a Black man. I would offer that credentialing is absurd on its face; but, all too often, passes as legitimate in these discussions.

That said, there are two points I would like to pursue further:

You stated:

I totally get that it's completely unfair to ask people of color, who have already borne so much of the weight of white people's problems, to carry the load for us in this conversation. However, I think this issue is vitally important and we can't wait any longer.

This is primarily what PoC have attempted in these discussions ... "carrying the load." It is not unfair to ask us to do so. What is unfair is for there to be a recognition that a load needs to be carried, then refuse to listen. If you have a chance to wander the DU, you might find this OP (or rather the ensuing discussion) of interest as it further explains the world in which PoC live, especially among supposed issue allies. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024880260

It is, personally, helpful that you exampled the dynamic from your position within the privilege. Thanks.

Secondly, you offer the term "white advantage", as a less threatening, less inflammatory, term for white privilege ... I suspect that those failing to understand/accept white privilege, will be equally (or maybe even more) unaccepting of white advantage. It has been argued here: "How can I (white/male) have some white advantage when I live in poverty and ... well ... OPRAH!" (which leads to the PoC's semi-sarcastic response: "we cannot deal with the racial status quo until there are no more poor white folks.&quot

Thank you again for weighing in.

Peace.

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No! I will not Stop it! ... [View all] 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 OP

I got a hide for questioning someone about purported "oppression" of white men here....... bettyellen May 2014 #1

I hope you don't stop. TDale313 May 2014 #2

I don't intend to ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #3

AFreakingMen! VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #5

Exactly! They create an alternate universe and then chastise you when you don't conform R B Garr May 2014 #9

It's hardly "right wing", at all, actually. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #10

You are completely unself-aware ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #12

So you're trying to connect me to Jared Taylor now? AverageJoe90 May 2014 #18

Yep ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #25

"literal white privilege" hmmm sounds an awful lot like Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #133

Yep. eom. 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #156

You are making yourself look like you do not know anything. bravenak May 2014 #27

Self awareness is the key to dealing with life ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #107

there are no facts presented, AJ. None at all. Maybe you should use IMHO more, because that would be bettyellen May 2014 #33

LOL!!! bravenak May 2014 #58

Jesus H. Christ. It's not a goddamn pet theory. The name has been around for decades... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #70

perfect betsuni May 2014 #79

HA! Exactly! laundry_queen May 2014 #83

I hate to see these passages repeated, but yeah, no one should tell you to 'stop it!' freshwest May 2014 #85

Thank you for posting that link RainDog May 2014 #99

An Academician... Or Two... WillyT May 2014 #4

And completely unsurprisingly ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #6

WTF does that even mean? He's splitting those hairs down to the microscopic level, and for what? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #228

I guess the former ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #289

fwiw RainDog May 2014 #7

This here ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #11

LOL RainDog May 2014 #17

Incredulous person checking in! U4ikLefty May 2014 #80

... RainDog May 2014 #82

no prob U4ikLefty May 2014 #84

Laugh. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #135

But he is accused of being "wise beyond his years" ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #157

"...his un/semi-informed opinion equals that of highly educated opinions." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #235

That entire exchange is just... breathtaking. Number23 May 2014 #86

It was the first time I saw him here RainDog May 2014 #97

I've started to wonder if it's performance art or something. Maybe *unintentional* performance art. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #239

Maybe it's "philosophical" performance art ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #291

I think it's intentional performance "art" RainDog May 2014 #292

"Do we have to call it 'climate change'? Doesn't 'climate going up and down' more accurately reflect nomorenomore08 May 2014 #240

"Smart beyond my years" gollygee May 2014 #126

"Not quite as virulently racist as it used to be" is in *no way* the same thing as "not racist." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #234

This person has no concept of factual support for an argument. kwassa May 2014 #8

One would think that ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #14

And yet that's the excuse RainDog May 2014 #20

Was this supposed to be a reply to someone in a thread? morningfog May 2014 #13

It was a response to a comment in a, now, locked thread ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #15

It was intended to disrupt and to troll, morningfog. That's what it was. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #19

Why do you always race to the race threads? bravenak May 2014 #23

Not every race thread is about the "privilege" thing, though. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #29

BUT YOU NEVER FAIL TO SHOW UP AND MAKE ME UNCOMFORTABLE WITH YOUR FOX NEWS bravenak May 2014 #38

I'm truly sorry you feel that way. Really. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #42

Define your terms RainDog May 2014 #51

Just stop. bravenak May 2014 #54

We do know you online, so that isn't so, TBH. bettyellen May 2014 #63

Sure, if you say so, oh wise one. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #65

here is an opportuntiy to learn something about the source you used- you misread them completely bettyellen May 2014 #67

Reacted in fear? Au contraire, mon chere! =) AverageJoe90 May 2014 #68

I'm asking all the same questions myself... n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #241

This can't be real. bravenak May 2014 #248

Well he top himself this time ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #31

I was supposed to be giving up DU for a week but this guy....... bravenak May 2014 #39

How about you just link to the thread? eom. 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #26

Still at it? What a shame. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #16

Why do you show up in every race thread? bravenak May 2014 #21

Stormfront? Give me a fucking break. Seriously. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #24

I WILL NOT GIVE YOU A BREAK IF YOU ARE GOING TO SHOW UP ON EVERY RACE THREAD bravenak May 2014 #34

"RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS" I'm afraid that's just not accurate. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #35

Look down thread. bravenak May 2014 #45

This isn't a race thread this is a pile on Egnever May 2014 #36

Of course you came to give your words of wisdom. bravenak May 2014 #40

Blah blah blah Egnever May 2014 #43

Then get some glasses blindy. bravenak May 2014 #44

Good one! Egnever May 2014 #50

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #49

Yes Egnever May 2014 #55

It should have been, Egnever. Number23 May 2014 #87

Lot's of hide worthy in this mess Egnever May 2014 #101

Accuracy often is. LanternWaste May 2014 #171

Or maybe you do.. bravenak May 2014 #57

I don't like to say this, but sadly, there's some truth to that. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #60

Dampen it by letting in a few BainsBane May 2014 #94

Translation of the above .... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #109

This is unreal. bravenak May 2014 #114

This message was self-deleted by its author bettyellen May 2014 #61

If a creationist were here RainDog May 2014 #98

I am pretty much Egnever May 2014 #100

That's a pretty facile argument on it's face ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #110

Do you understand the difference between facts and opinions? Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #137

Including ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #161

If she's getting a lot of traffic on a post RainDog May 2014 #168

+1 gollygee May 2014 #163

Thanks. I do try, at least. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #139

You don't try. That is the problem. kwassa May 2014 #300

It's not about disagreement. It's a white person thinking he knows more about racism than people of nomorenomore08 May 2014 #224

This message was self-deleted by its author 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #108

This is a call-out thread Union Scribe May 2014 #47

This. This. Just this. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #66

I point blank asked him to stop posting about WP RainDog May 2014 #69

"He seems to be intentionally antagonizing people here by doing this." As opposed to this OP? AverageJoe90 May 2014 #75

define your terms RainDog May 2014 #78

Here's the context for this thread RainDog May 2014 #91

I have also asked this person multiple times to stop posting in these threads Number23 May 2014 #90

Yes betsuni May 2014 #92

^^^^This! Squinch May 2014 #221

"But being.....ANTAGONISTIC" Speak for yourself! AverageJoe90 May 2014 #140

We're all bored beyond tears with your Rush Limbaugh impersonation Number23 May 2014 #309

It's not "invented"? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #22

"then YOU invented it!" I give up. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #28

Sorry. He's not the one with the issues here. TDale313 May 2014 #30

She apparently doesn't agree with you ismnotwasm May 2014 #46

I read her reply. And it may be obvious she and I don't quite see eye to eye the whole way. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #62

eye to eye? LOL. You completely misunderstood her. bettyellen May 2014 #81

Wrong link.....or was there something else in mind? AverageJoe90 May 2014 #117

Oh no- that was the perfect link for you. This is thread is all about the Miseducation of AJ... bettyellen May 2014 #119

So maybe you can find another person that knows about this stuff ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #112

This whole thread is a BS pile on. Egnever May 2014 #32

Yep. Right from the very start! nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #76

What distinguishes what you are calling a pile-on thread from a thread in which MANY people are Squinch May 2014 #222

As the author of the article cited . . . Rebecca Trotter May 2014 #37

Clearly misunderstood. ismnotwasm May 2014 #41

Awesome post Egnever May 2014 #48

Thank you for posting this. n/t TDale313 May 2014 #52

We see this response that you mention RainDog May 2014 #64

"...avoiding discussion of the issues behind the term." This. Gormy Cuss May 2014 #71

You got to recognize comments which surpass your own explanation. Baitball Blogger May 2014 #123

You can't "force recognition". In fact, forcing defensiveness is counterproductive. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #247

One can't "force defensiveness" ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #293

Holding a mirror in front of one's face will usually force recognition in those who care to see. Gormy Cuss May 2014 #294

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #306

Yep. On these issues, it seems to me... TDale313 May 2014 #72

My response: AverageJoe90 May 2014 #74

Downplaying is really the same thing as denying, in practical terms. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #243

that is exactly it, minimize, deny, cite sources they did not even understand......... bettyellen May 2014 #77

Amazing post Number23 May 2014 #89

This. Starry Messenger May 2014 #115

Recommend..Yours and "Rebecca Trotter's" post up above... KoKo May 2014 #151

Good post, KoKo! AverageJoe90 May 2014 #164

Do you really believe that someone ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #166

I don't see how dividing people by using offensive language can brings us together KoKo May 2014 #167

The divisions are already there ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #172

People of color and different genders have persecuted and been persecuted throughout history.. KoKo May 2014 #176

Please stop acting like this is about blame. TDale313 May 2014 #197

I would argue that "majority" folks ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #202

Good point. n/t TDale313 May 2014 #204

Please point to where I assigned any blame. But, ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #200

How would they do that, though. What could they do that would KoKo May 2014 #225

Stop being doing racist stuff ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #237

"We've all been persecuted" BainsBane May 2014 #214

Beg to differ...I never said anything that you said I was saying in my replies... KoKo May 2014 #230

Your words BainsBane May 2014 #236

Sad stuff there... KoKo May 2014 #264

True stuff, here. kwassa May 2014 #268

I think President Obama might differ with you there, though. KoKo May 2014 #272

White privilege is not about making anyone the enemy. I don't know where you get that idea. kwassa May 2014 #287

Did you read his book ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #295

You are minimizing the unique experience of African-Americans. kwassa May 2014 #263

President Obama was Raised by Whites, though...He might differ with your view: KoKo May 2014 #283

Why did you post the same reply twice, and what does President Obama have to do with this? kwassa May 2014 #288

I guess he/she believes because PBO was raised by white folks ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #296

You see a pattern of logic to this? kwassa May 2014 #297

Yes, I understand what he/she is saying ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #305

"President Obama was Raised by Wolves, though." betsuni May 2014 #298

Thank you for your thoughts and clarification ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #121

I appreciate your effort. Baitball Blogger May 2014 #122

...... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #131

You need to stop playing games. bravenak May 2014 #134

"You hijack threads everytime and make it all about you." Not really accurate. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #138

Doesn't have to be all. Why would you think it would have to be all?? bravenak May 2014 #144

See what I mean by 'not accurate'? This is a great example! AverageJoe90 May 2014 #149

You just did everything i accused you of in this post up here. bravenak May 2014 #159

THERE IS NO SUCH ANIMAL AS "LITERAL" WHITE PRIVILEGE ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #242

All of us on DU, or most of us, have been put through a gauntlet. Baitball Blogger May 2014 #147

Well, okay, you've had your personal experiences. And I've had mine. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #152

I think it's very telling that I see the trend as moving forward, Baitball Blogger May 2014 #155

Exactly. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #141

. Baitball Blogger May 2014 #148

Only problem with that is, some HAVE used it as an attack. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #158

Seriously good post. Welcome to DU. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #245

In leftist academia, the idea of white privilege is a given. It is not up for debate... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #53

but but but, a few cranks on the net beg to differ, LOL. bettyellen May 2014 #56

No shit ismnotwasm May 2014 #59

"It is not up for debate... It's more like an undeniable consciousness." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #244

Hey now, he's a whopping 23 years old. U4ikLefty May 2014 #73

really? BainsBane May 2014 #95

Actually, I find it comforting ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #124

This times 1000! JustAnotherGen May 2014 #154

Maybe he'll learn that he actually needs supporting evidence to back up his pet theories... nomorenomore08 May 2014 #246

It's so cute betsuni May 2014 #96

+1000 Bobbie Jo May 2014 #106

I have towels older than that. Starry Messenger May 2014 #201

I KNEW it! No one who has lived for a while has that much hubris. Squinch May 2014 #223

"No! I will not Stop it!" sheshe2 May 2014 #88

I don't think 1SBM has a quit bone The Traveler May 2014 #103

You are so right Trav. sheshe2 May 2014 #194

You'll drive yourself mad BainsBane May 2014 #93

Recovering Republicans Warpy May 2014 #102

And I hope you never stop. Jamastiene May 2014 #104

Amen pinboy3niner May 2014 #105

I have come to believe for many who deny white privilege boston bean May 2014 #111

"It's a reverse racism argument at its core." Not always true. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #118

A former believer? gollygee May 2014 #127

The only people who don't see that white privilege still exists ... dawg May 2014 #113

Because, apparently, you have a lot to learn ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #125

I remember being a 23 year-old "genius". dawg May 2014 #136

Yup. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #143

I got a framed poster ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #160

Let's be careful with the age issue. I'm only 24... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #173

I was just thinking betsuni May 2014 #199

I don't think maturity is the issue. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #216

YOU are a world away from this. Squinch May 2014 #226

"But there are additional obstacles in the way of black people....." That's true. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #130

White privilege has ALWAYS meant literal privileges white people get gollygee May 2014 #170

Uh-huh. Sure. "White privilege has ALWAYS meant literal privileges white people get" AverageJoe90 May 2014 #175

How about you gollygee May 2014 #178

"because you've pulled this whole thing out of your ass." Nah. Just observing something that has.... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #181

Then post some links gollygee May 2014 #185

Just ask him if he wiped and why he didn't flush. eom. 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #211

So point to a single social scientist that supports your ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #210

Also, John Scalzi offered his own take on this controversy a while back: AverageJoe90 May 2014 #145

You entirely missed his point. ismnotwasm May 2014 #150

"You entirely missed his point." No, I didn't. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #153

In the same way that many bigots wish we'd call them something else. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #182

"In the same way that many bigots wish we'd call them something else." LOL, no. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #187

Yes, in the same way that 5 year olds don't dictate theories on linear algebra. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #191

You mean those of us who accept the reality of systemic disadvantages, but realize that............. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #208

The untold number of educated persons who have travelled through academia... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #218

I keep hearing the words ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #249

Thanks for finally being the one to take the gloves off. This had to be done at some point. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #251

LOL. "personal problem" indeed. kwassa May 2014 #301

And why is this so important that you've filled up entire threads with it? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #250

I would add ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #256

I wasn't trying to browbeat anybody, to be truthful. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #259

I think they just want you to stop insisting that your viewpoint is somehow more informed than nomorenomore08 May 2014 #262

Good! gollygee May 2014 #116

From a white male liberal.... steve2470 May 2014 #120

It exists outside the south, too Warpy May 2014 #128

yes you are correct of course nt steve2470 May 2014 #129

Heh. I just responded to him pushing the same notion again Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #132

Here's the problem; I actually pointed this out myself. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #142

I think the record has already long since been set straight. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #146

I have a question for you RainDog May 2014 #162

Nope. And TBH, I honestly would have felt quite insulted, had it come from certain other folks. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #165

thanks for taking my question in the spirit it was meant RainDog May 2014 #169

I suppose we can agree on something, at least. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #179

Great RainDog May 2014 #192

And all we have been doing for weeks is trying to set it straight... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #174

Oh, give me a break. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #177

You have an issue with the words "honest" and "truth" gollygee May 2014 #180

I'd look in the mirror if I were you.....at least in regards to the latter. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #183

ROFL gollygee May 2014 #184

It won't be. Because there's nothing to be embarrassed about. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #188

Open my eyes? Listen, I know more about this subject than almost.... Gravitycollapse May 2014 #189

Almost everyone here agrees as to the concept and definition of privilege ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #196

Who changed it? You? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #193

Concern trolling. bravenak May 2014 #186

Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #198

I saw that. We need to keep posting this bingo card. bravenak May 2014 #203

That's worth keeping BainsBane May 2014 #205

It took me a full ten minutes to hunt that one down. bravenak May 2014 #206

... Jamaal510 May 2014 #207

It's just so damn accurate! bravenak May 2014 #209

Not quite. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #215

The Oracle has spoken BainsBane May 2014 #219

And ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #252

Except Catholic religion BainsBane May 2014 #255

Exactly ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #257

You still fail to understand that you are the one that doesn't get it. bravenak May 2014 #220

By the way.....yes, I did. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #229

You poor guy. bravenak May 2014 #231

Your attempt to condescend is noted. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #233

You should show your friends this thread. bravenak May 2014 #238

HELLMANN'S! betsuni May 2014 #253

Me neither. bravenak May 2014 #254

You just don't ever stop, do ya? AverageJoe90 May 2014 #265

If you stop, everyone else will. bravenak May 2014 #270

"People have responded to you in good faith".....some have, and some haven't. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #273

Are you finally done then? bravenak May 2014 #276

Are you done? AverageJoe90 May 2014 #279

You have spent six months arguing with black people about a term you don't like. bravenak May 2014 #282

I took offense at your comments, because you have no clue as to what you are talking about. kwassa May 2014 #290

No ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #302

Wait, hold it gollygee May 2014 #274

But betsuni May 2014 #310

K&R: the climate change denier is wrong CreekDog May 2014 #190

Well, hello, CD. Bullshitting as usual, I see. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #212

And you have yet to ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #260

this is old, but it's what got you bounced from Environment and Energy (note: I was not a host then) CreekDog May 2014 #278

Sorry, but no cigar for you. Please, play again. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #281

I have a bingo card for that too. bravenak May 2014 #213

This one's better, but it gets one thing wrong: AverageJoe90 May 2014 #217

LOL!!!! bravenak May 2014 #261

You only think that because you're too caught up in your own arrogance to see otherwise. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #266

Is arrogant another word for uppity? bravenak May 2014 #271

"Is arrogant another word for uppity?" Um, wow. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #275

Look at how upset you are that nobody really agrees with you. bravenak May 2014 #277

I'm not nearly as upset as you might have hoped. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #284

You be civil first. It's up to you like i said. bravenak May 2014 #285

Don't stop pinboy3niner May 2014 #195

Why oh why, does a person who knows so little about a subject, have to go around pontificating nomorenomore08 May 2014 #227

This is a mobius thread of stupid Generic Other May 2014 #232

Not that there was any actual attempts to educate going on, anyway. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #267

^^^^^ The bad guy right here ^^^^^ pinboy3niner May 2014 #280

Never stop! randys1 May 2014 #258

"Denial of white privilege by privileged whites" If you knew me.....you wouldn't be saying that. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #269

LOL! Now You're a poor, disadvantaged white boy so WP doesn't exist. pinboy3niner May 2014 #286

Oh, yes I would. You've been doing this for weeks here. We do know you. kwassa May 2014 #299

You had me at nut pinboy3niner May 2014 #304

I guess shell was unnecessary. kwassa May 2014 #308

I assumed this was the case in your case RainDog May 2014 #303

For those that care ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #307