General Discussion

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

187. 18 year old kids aren't equipped to sort out the truth from bullshit.

Wed May 21, 2014, 08:50 AM

May 2014

They've been told by every teacher they met that "going to college" was the only satisfactory life outcome.

I have sympathy for him to the extent that he was force-fed bullshit for so long.

When my middle son was in high school, his overachieving best friend was a year older than him. Hyper smart this kid is. After graduating from HS, he enrolled in UofW and graduated with a degree in electrical engineering.

My son, on the other hand was an academic screwup. Suspensions, expulsions, discipline... you name it. He went to all of the high schools in a 20 mile radius and eventually graduated from the local alternative school. He eventually straightened out and enrolled in community college. The small tuition and large investment of tools he paid for with grants. He graduated from the diesel tech AA program and now works for a truck shop near Seattle. He makes decent if not spectacular money.

The friend still hangs out at my son's apartment and worries about his future because he cannot find work and doesn't know how he's going to repay a nearly six-figure student loan debt.

All problems are math problems, but teachers don't give students the formula or the numbers to plug into it.

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Angry Graduate Wrote This Letter To His University. It's Hard Not To Agree With Him. [View all] kpete May 2014 OP

pathetic TheSarcastinator May 2014 #1

disgusting reformist2 May 2014 #2

really sir DonCoquixote May 2014 #3

your position only holds if you buy the marketing nonsense TheSarcastinator May 2014 #11

And a college degree is also a requirement for many jobs. But you knew that didn't you? n/t A Simple Game May 2014 #20

Not just many jobs, but most jobs that pay enough to passiveporcupine May 2014 #89

I think your assumption that those that start businesses dont have college degrees rhett o rick May 2014 #113

Not in this market. Many jobs available today look at college degrees as "over qualified". rhett o rick May 2014 #114

And I think we have just found the first on many Catch-22s that exist in today's economy. baldguy May 2014 #151

Of course some jobs would not want someone with a degree. A Simple Game May 2014 #153

Oh, you so very much belong on the ignore list. Maedhros May 2014 #24

+1 gazillion valerief May 2014 #63

Yeppers, chervilant May 2014 #88

That is my thought to. I love ignore for truedelphi May 2014 #135

123 posts, this troll might be gone before you get him on ignore. marble falls May 2014 #142

Still here but I'm not surprised. NealK May 2014 #184

^^^THIS^^^ Tom Ripley May 2014 #192

Lighten Up billhicks76 May 2014 #139

So exactly who is feeding us all these myths? fasttense May 2014 #144

This message was self-deleted by its author ChangeUp106 May 2014 #99

specious. magical thyme May 2014 #7

sorry, I'm not your Dad TheSarcastinator May 2014 #13

I'm not sorry you're not my dad. And your claim, which you have not backed up with any supportive magical thyme May 2014 #18

I'm proud to be on your ignore list: you made sure to smear me personally TheSarcastinator May 2014 #22

So what do YOU consider the primary goal of "higher" education? AdHocSolver May 2014 #66

I like your arguments very much. MADem May 2014 #130

Fucking bullshit. Poor people can't take that huge financial risk for an "opportunity to learn". enki23 May 2014 #56

Yes, it is just sulphurdunn May 2014 #101

Sounds to me like the person was saying their dad had different reasons. Jamastiene May 2014 #156

as a cancer patient, I get absurdly high bills so I assumed your biz is booming wordpix May 2014 #31

Apparently, someone needs to send you to school for reading comprehension. (nt) jeff47 May 2014 #8

He thinks he is entitled to question the value of his very expensive education -- pnwmom May 2014 #26

Sarcastinator: having nothing of value to contribute tenderfoot May 2014 #33

I went to college in the early 70's. Jerry442 May 2014 #34

Amen to that. I graduated in the late 60's. B.S. in Chemistry. $2400.00 in debt to Uncle Sam kelliekat44 May 2014 #54

Very similar to my story. Same debt as you. You forgot the part about 2% interest on NDEA loans eridani May 2014 #138

you really, really don't get it, do you? Skittles May 2014 #44

If it is so above money, how can they put a price on it. If it's so instrinsically fucking excellent jtuck004 May 2014 #47

What have you got to sell me, TheSarcastinator? hunter May 2014 #55

"An education is not a guarantee of employment. It never has been and never will be." TrollBuster9090 May 2014 #71

Excuse me, Mr. (or Ms.) Sarcastinator: Brigid May 2014 #75

It probably was not his first fundraising letter, email or call, either. merrily May 2014 #123

:-| DeSwiss May 2014 #78

I agree %110 AllTooEasy May 2014 #83

One point against one point for. Springslips May 2014 #86

I'm a career educator and academic, and I largely agree.... mike_c May 2014 #87

mike_c trekbiker May 2014 #172

Pathetic? jollyreaper2112 May 2014 #90

You might want to try the new Discussionist site SwankyXomb May 2014 #92

We love it when our new neighbors visit. merrily May 2014 #110

Well the Name od this thread is imthevicar May 2014 #145

He is entitled to his opinion, though. Fantastic Anarchist May 2014 #159

I am not bothering with you nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #171

18 year old kids aren't equipped to sort out the truth from bullshit. lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #187

Righteous. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #4

TheSarcastinator kpete May 2014 #5

On the other hand...He read the glossy colored brochure back in high school & bought the sales pitch misterhighwasted May 2014 #6

the brochure for the healthcare program I attended didn't state "successfully" employed magical thyme May 2014 #9

marketing should never be taken as truth TheSarcastinator May 2014 #15

Most of all it's important to blame the victim Orrex May 2014 #25

^^^ This ^^^ (nt) jeff47 May 2014 #67

If more people were thoughtful consumers, our economy would collapse. AdHocSolver May 2014 #57

When people stop spending their money on one thing, they spend it on another. valerief May 2014 #73

If one has an inflamed appendix, and the doctor says she can get it out AngryAmish May 2014 #77

Marketing by adults in schools to 16 and 17 year old should not be deceptive. merrily May 2014 #116

I Definitely See Your Point taotzu May 2014 #148

Different experience at the university I work at. catbyte May 2014 #17

Doesn't always work, though Orrex May 2014 #28

I was one of the IT grads in '83. It took me a year to find my first gig and it was just the start Vincardog May 2014 #46

Well, that's kind of the point Orrex May 2014 #61

If I had it to do again, I would have been a welder. Vincardog May 2014 #62

Similarly, I would have gone in to automotive repair Orrex May 2014 #70

I wish I'd learned HVAC. xmas74 May 2014 #119

83 wasn't a good time to start that career. jeff47 May 2014 #109

Does that statistic mean that some percentage of the graduates did not seek employment in the field? magical thyme May 2014 #29

Yes, there were some graduates who decided not to seek employment yet--usually new mothers. catbyte May 2014 #37

So did 98% of the students pass the boards, and 100% of those find employment? magical thyme May 2014 #45

I'm sorry--can I get back with you? I'm dealing with a seriously ill cat & can't reply now. catbyte May 2014 #150

awww no, healing vibes to the kitty magical thyme May 2014 #164

That's a lot to expect of a 16 year old. Please see Reply 116. merrily May 2014 #117

wyrd RainDog May 2014 #10

Should have gotten a degree in Engineering. dilby May 2014 #12

Really? That is not what I've been hearing . . . Brigid May 2014 #72

You're right - wages for STEM jobs are dropping, being shipped overseas. reformist2 May 2014 #82

+1...what you said. freebrew May 2014 #149

While I do agree with the posts here Jenoch May 2014 #14

"Sense of entitlement?" KansDem May 2014 #41

I remember that PSA with Lincoln Art_from_Ark May 2014 #94

That's a big 10-4. raccoon May 2014 #178

Yeah, I think these commenters are missing the forest for the trees. Arugula Latte May 2014 #69

Then he should have went to a different school. Travis_0004 May 2014 #79

One of those super cheap state universities we have so many of these days, huh? Arugula Latte May 2014 #80

Then you get an associates degree at a community college and transfer to finish your degree Trekologer May 2014 #91

Do you think it's fine for universities to charge $45,000 a year? Arugula Latte May 2014 #103

You're citing costs for private schools Trekologer May 2014 #106

Nope. Arugula Latte May 2014 #108

Calculator link to a local DII/second rate state university in my town. xmas74 May 2014 #124

I just logged on to my local state university's website xmas74 May 2014 #122

Because the state also pays for the lavish spending by the school. merrily May 2014 #125

I work on campus xmas74 May 2014 #129

I am not sure which point you are making. merrily May 2014 #131

Not so much making a point as stating a fact. xmas74 May 2014 #132

Again, I did not ask about the foreign student's tuition or expenses. merrily May 2014 #133

Maybe you should have gone to a different school. merrily May 2014 #120

I work in higher ed, and I think the writer has some valid points. Damansarajaya May 2014 #16

This is our tax breaks at work. ... aggiesal May 2014 #42

Yup, that's the sad truth. +1 nt Damansarajaya May 2014 #43

You were lucky to get so much assistance paying your tuition. Jenoch May 2014 #84

Yep. All this lean 'n' mean stuff is just plain mean. AND stupid. AND short-sighted. calimary May 2014 #175

Boston University, Harvard and MIT own some of the most expensive real estate in merrily May 2014 #115

The points you make are most excellent. truedelphi May 2014 #136

One of my daughters got a MA in public policy, Damansarajaya May 2014 #19

But did they have a winning football team? progressoid May 2014 #21

No offense, but college degrees became worthless a while ago ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2014 #23

apparently no one does TheSarcastinator May 2014 #27

There needs to be a method for determining a college's placement success. KansDem May 2014 #53

If kids did research, the U.S. wouldn't have military troops. nt valerief May 2014 #74

Statistically speaking, mythology May 2014 #190

With that attitude it is no wonder he is still unemployed. cbdo2007 May 2014 #30

Come on, HR loves applicants that can demonstrate "seething rage" mathematic May 2014 #36

Exactly...he doesn't say he never had a job...so I'm guessing he got fired cbdo2007 May 2014 #38

For not showing the proper deference at all times to all of his betters? enki23 May 2014 #58

I've never groveled at an interview. Nor would I hire a groveler that I interview. eom yawnmaster May 2014 #96

I've heard hyper-literal readers make the best hiring managers. enki23 May 2014 #98

did you take a course in covert groveling? because you have acted a certain way in an interview... yawnmaster May 2014 #173

I have a 24-year old niece..... llmart May 2014 #179

Having a point about his alma mater means he must be angry in interviews? merrily May 2014 #111

One of the main reasons this country is rotting from the inside out EEO May 2014 #32

The Everything-For-Profit model is killing everything. --nt CrispyQ May 2014 #50

I could not say it better. Welcome to DU :-) nt. Jasana May 2014 #52

No money for state-funded universities, but plenty for the good ol' military-industrial complex... Arugula Latte May 2014 #65

Yup! marew May 2014 #162

It doesn't even seem to bother a lot of people on this thread, who are blaming students Arugula Latte May 2014 #163

If you care Bee_stung May 2014 #85

Uh huh. That really works in this two-corporate-party system. Arugula Latte May 2014 #118

What does work in this system? Things get worse and worse.* Where and when will it stop? merrily May 2014 #126

, blkmusclmachine May 2014 #35

Excellent letter! I have told OU to shove their fund rasing letters as well, more jtuck004 May 2014 #39

I wonder if this individual's personalility comes through in job interviews, too Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #40

This letter tells us nothing about his behavior in job interviews, let alone merrily May 2014 #127

Tells me a lot...(nt) Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #174

Only if you jump to unwarranted conclusions. We don't even know if this letter is real. merrily May 2014 #185

True...(nt) Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #186

It tells you shit laundry_queen May 2014 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author guyton May 2014 #48

As soon as I read it, I was tempted to go to snopes. merrily May 2014 #128

I think today's students are getting screwed. Trust Buster May 2014 #49

Thank You - a subversive little song about all this! reformist2 May 2014 #95

It looks like the original may have been posted on Craigslist back in February of 2010.... xocet May 2014 #51

The reason the Canadian zentrum May 2014 #59

Uhh... Wha? Sen. Walter Sobchak May 2014 #107

Really? zentrum May 2014 #147

Yeah, Canadians graduate from university drowning in debt too Sen. Walter Sobchak May 2014 #167

While true laundry_queen May 2014 #183

Always happy to be.... zentrum May 2014 #191

What university? Renew Deal May 2014 #60

I'm A College Instructor. Every Year, I Have About A Dozen Former Students Ask Me For A TrollBuster9090 May 2014 #64

That's what one of my professors told me Trekologer May 2014 #105

That's really not good advice either, as more and more corporations require higher degrees. reformist2 May 2014 #166

Yes, they do require more advanced degrees for upper level management positions. But what I said TrollBuster9090 May 2014 #169

That has to depend on the field Sen. Walter Sobchak May 2014 #168

Yes. That's the key. (I should have mentioned that in my original comment.) TrollBuster9090 May 2014 #170

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #188

They can't offshore plumber jobs. valerief May 2014 #68

"Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow" KansDem May 2014 #176

I remember in the 90s when I noticed normal people reading self-help books. valerief May 2014 #177

I'd have to know more... Helen Borg May 2014 #76

Unemployed? Complain to the corporations that ruined the economy. Taitertots May 2014 #81

The writer of the letter makes some good points, though he is a bit abrasive. rupertps8or28 May 2014 #93

I am impressed, did not know you could write like this. uppityperson May 2014 #102

I understand the anger. davidthegnome May 2014 #97

Your words-the truest words written here! marew May 2014 #160

Eh ChangeUp106 May 2014 #100

Did it cost you $45,000 a year to go to your university? If not, how much was it, and in what year? Arugula Latte May 2014 #104

No it was around $30,000 ChangeUp106 May 2014 #134

$120,000 for an undergrad education. That's utterly ridiculous. Arugula Latte May 2014 #161

Pathetic sour grapes taught_me_patience May 2014 #112

"The author is a pathetic piece of shit." nt merrily May 2014 #121

I agree with the sentiment King_Klonopin May 2014 #137

I agree to a point wyldwolf May 2014 #140

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast May 2014 #141

Yeah, I doubt it... cactusfractal May 2014 #143

It was written in 2010 JPZenger May 2014 #146

I say only the rich and powerful should be allowed higher educations randys1 May 2014 #152

Wow! malaise May 2014 #154

Some of the responses on here are about as cold as Northeastern weather. HughBeaumont May 2014 #155

The poster's points were somewhat weak . . FairWinds May 2014 #157

And... I think the writer is correct Amaya May 2014 #158

True beyond words Shoonra May 2014 #165

Reading this thread makes me wonder, in many cases, what is the point of the Democratic party? TheKentuckian May 2014 #180

A good point but he overdoes it treestar May 2014 #181

Outside of the Ivy League and a few others in the top 10, ALL UNIVERSITIES ARE OVER PRICED Yavin4 May 2014 #189