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Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
68. Three things
Sat May 24, 2014, 12:21 AM
May 2014

First of all, good for the pope for expanding the Catholic ethical focus some more. Actually, having studied Catholic Social Teaching, what he is saying is not surprising to me. But it is high time that the leader of the Catholic Church makes this kind of noise, so I say good for him.

Secondly, to the posters who referred to James Baldwin - yoohoo. Love him! Love the title of that book too.

Thirdly, regarding the story of Noah. When I was a kid I always thought that the divine promise not to flood the earth again at the end of that story, is rather meaningless, given that God has so many other divine WMD's like fire or disease available! But having taught this text frequently, I have grown to love it for its symbolism. To interpret the Noah story, one has to go back to the first creation account, the one found in Genesis 1 (Genesis 2's story is an entirely separate creation account), where creation consists of a dome between the waters below and the waters above. Water = chaos, lack of creation order, and thereby a state of no life being possible. Dome in the middle of the waters = a place of rhythm and order in which life gradually develops, culminating in human life (in the story). In the imagination of the ancient Middle East, the world is therefore a place of order amidst the surrounding chaos/water. (The story is roughly based on the Babylonian story of the warrior god Marduk slaying the goddess Tiamat - goddess of chaos/water - and creating a dome in the middle of the two parts of her body.) Anyway, if one understands this about the ancient ME worldview, the story of Noah is not the story of a flood per se, but the story of the order of creation being overwhelmed by chaos. Hence the importance of the divine promise at the end of the story, in which the rhythms of nature are promised (day and night, summer and winter, etc.). What God promises at the end of the story is not that the world won't be destroyed by a particular method (leaving the door open for alternative divine WMD's like "the fire next time&quot , but that the rhythms of nature will continue, that the chaos won't be allowed to reign. The story is highly mythical of course (and also largely derivative of other ancient myths, such as the Eridu Genesis, Atrahasis, the Gilgamesh flood story, and others), but it has significance for the current climate crisis. At the root of the dominant Western religions is this story of divine care for creation. The irony is that we ourselves might be destroying the very rhythms of creation to which the story alludes.

That in short. One of my favorite stories, I should add. We read the Gilgamesh epic as well as the first chapters in Genesis in my freshmen college class every year, and I just enjoy teaching this material. A pity that these chapters are so widely misunderstood! They are classical expressions of the human spirit, and they often contain a lot of wisdom.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Excommunicate all elected Catholic Republicans. nt onehandle May 2014 #1
Paul Ryan would be a good object lesson to be targeted..n/t tokenlib May 2014 #4
Don't know if there are grounds for excommunication, but they could Cleita May 2014 #15
That would be great but TexasProgresive May 2014 #18
There are many who are not listening to this pope BrotherIvan May 2014 #23
With the tea baggers, The Green Manalishi May 2014 #67
I wonder what would come out? BrotherIvan May 2014 #73
I don't know about the self-idolarty angle apnu May 2014 #2
well said apnu kpete May 2014 #3
Thank you! (nt) apnu May 2014 #5
There are plenty of evangelical Catholics around too. geardaddy May 2014 #13
The Roman Catholic Church doesn't include an Evangelical branch. And there is unanimity pnwmom May 2014 #66
Self = me and only me. Self-idolatry. I will probably get it here but in my younger really jwirr May 2014 #21
We had a few fires this past week nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #28
Yup. Once I figured out how self-centered Conservatives are, dealing with them became easy. apnu May 2014 #30
I will add, this is not just conservatives nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #33
The "self-idolatary" angle is, IMHO, spot on....... Swede Atlanta May 2014 #87
my exp has been that catholics are (Generally) better educated than the average, Volaris May 2014 #106
Dumb too pscot May 2014 #6
I'll K&R this. At this stage of the game I'll take any voice that urges action nt riderinthestorm May 2014 #7
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2014 #8
Destroying the planet is activity reserved for God Himself. Kaleva May 2014 #9
Actually god promised Noah to never ever nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #29
God promised Noah that he wouldn't flood the world again Kaleva May 2014 #39
Which many experts translate as not destroying the world nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #40
Actually, the bible predicts fire next time. bananas May 2014 #45
That is the new testament nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #50
The Pope believe the New Testament. nt bananas May 2014 #51
1993 TV movie "The Fire Next Time" about Global Warming. bananas May 2014 #52
And I will take any bible story and believe in it as a fairy tale nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #54
Three things Nonhlanhla May 2014 #68
Very beautiful exegesis - thank you. Raksha May 2014 #89
Thank you! Nonhlanhla May 2014 #98
Woody Guthrie - Sowing on the Mountain - 1944 bananas May 2014 #49
The Fire Next Time - by James Baldwin bananas May 2014 #43
The Carter Family - God Gave Noah The Rainbow Sign - 1927 bananas May 2014 #55
K&R.... daleanime May 2014 #10
k/r peoli May 2014 #11
Lighten up Francis... underpants May 2014 #12
Lol deutsey May 2014 #17
Whatever reason it takes to get us there. Cleita May 2014 #14
Perhaps no communion as the church does with prochoice kiranon May 2014 #16
What a self serving man he is. He and his Bishops are supporting laws against God's people Bluenorthwest May 2014 #19
Lol, still spinning the same notes over and over. Katashi_itto May 2014 #35
Actually it's religion spinning the same notes over and over. cleanhippie May 2014 #58
About Climate Change? Righhtt... Katashi_itto May 2014 #59
No, as usual, it's about HIS god skepticscott May 2014 #76
He's urging 1 billion followers to wake up. But seriously if thats what ticks you off then Cool, Katashi_itto May 2014 #78
There's a few other things he tells his 1 billion followers that's aren't so nice theHandpuppet May 2014 #79
In the face of basic Human survival? Again your priorities are skewed Katashi_itto May 2014 #82
So the Pope can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Gotcha. theHandpuppet May 2014 #86
Did I say it ticked me off? skepticscott May 2014 #80
It doesnt matter about the other stuff in this situation. I am not apologizing for him. I am Katashi_itto May 2014 #83
No, mankind won't be extinct skepticscott May 2014 #95
Lol! I am glad your so sure of everything. Katashi_itto May 2014 #97
See the great skepticscott Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #92
You have to uderstand that skepticscott and cleanhippie refuse to admit that any religious leader is Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #84
Excellent points. It's a variation on the Obama Derangement Syndrome. Katashi_itto May 2014 #85
As noted, the pope and the RCC are abysmally late to do anything skepticscott May 2014 #96
A couple of decades ago, Francis was not Pope Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #99
Oh, and he had no voice back then? skepticscott May 2014 #102
Post removed Post removed May 2014 #108
And all you can do is spew more playground insults skepticscott May 2014 #109
What! You didn't mention Uganda. rug May 2014 #46
No, but thanks for reminding us. theHandpuppet May 2014 #48
Get ready for more howling from right wing Catholics Jack Rabbit May 2014 #20
OK, so far this Pope is condemnin inequality and now he's worried about destroying the planet....... wandy May 2014 #22
Or they'll go back to their KKK roots and just add the "papists" dflprincess May 2014 #24
Oh, hell, the Teaklan Brigades view Catholicism they way most people view Scientology hatrack May 2014 #88
I don't think "well-informed Christian" and "Teapublican" belong in the same sentence. Raksha May 2014 #90
I would agree with you. Unfortunately you have a very bad PR group............ wandy May 2014 #91
"You folk"? Slight case of mistaken identity here, so allow me to clarify: Raksha May 2014 #107
It's getting very late. davidthegnome May 2014 #25
+ n/t BlancheSplanchnik May 2014 #34
Well said. Chemisse May 2014 #74
Pope Francis certainly knows how to use the Bully Pulpit. Octafish May 2014 #26
Amen to that. nt raouldukelives May 2014 #27
If that were true... theHandpuppet May 2014 #31
So far, his actions have backed up his words. Octafish May 2014 #32
Which means what? theHandpuppet May 2014 #37
He's trying, that's what. Octafish May 2014 #38
Trying what? theHandpuppet May 2014 #42
maybe that we should agree with him when we agree with him (like on this issue) el_bryanto May 2014 #41
Oh, well then. theHandpuppet May 2014 #47
Right - because that's what I said. nt el_bryanto May 2014 #53
To me, this is not a matter of picking and choosing what people wish to ignore theHandpuppet May 2014 #77
Your problem seems to be that the Pope does not share your priorities Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #93
Wrong theHandpuppet May 2014 #94
Whoop-de-hairy-do! Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #100
I don't even have to offer you a shovel theHandpuppet May 2014 #101
Typical atheist response Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #103
What I stated in post #77 stands theHandpuppet May 2014 #105
he is working to turn a ship sailing one direction for a thousand roguevalley May 2014 #56
He doesn't have any actual political power treestar May 2014 #75
Pure communism. Kingofalldems May 2014 #36
So does this mean the Pope is an un-American racist? Generic Brad May 2014 #44
While I can appreciate the sentiment, it's another pathetic attempt to make the bible relevant cleanhippie May 2014 #57
Pope says "Destruction of the planet is a sinful act" bearssoapbox May 2014 #60
This pope has got it going on - TBF May 2014 #61
Wouldn't that be great? theHandpuppet May 2014 #62
Well you make an excellent point - TBF May 2014 #63
Have one on me theHandpuppet May 2014 #64
That's awesome, thanks :) TBF May 2014 #65
Have I mentioned just how much I like this guy? nt Hekate May 2014 #69
Thank you, Pope Francis! Can you imagine.. the Pope acknowledges Global Climate Cha May 2014 #70
I look forward to a vegan Pope! flvegan May 2014 #71
I have to agree with him. Lunacee_2013 May 2014 #72
Making a Biblical Case is important now-versus normally being made fun of-different now because? maced666 May 2014 #81
So he's declaring Earth "subdued." sofa king May 2014 #104
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