General Discussion

dawg

(10,777 posts)

92. Maybe you are right.

Tue Dec 20, 2011, 09:20 PM

Dec 2011

Personally I think it muddies the political waters to allow people to think there is even a possiblity of a Democratic President agreeing to something like a chained CPI, or an increase in the Medicare age, or other such foolery.

I know it has contributed to much strife on DU. And I feel like it let the Republicans off the hook with voters a little for the draconian Ryan plan that most of them voted for.

Just as strategy, I believe that the average voter - if they know nothing else about Democrats - should know that we will not stand for cuts to SS or Medicare benefits. I think this would have great value to us politically.

And considering the fact that most other rich nations are able to provide such coverage - not just to 65 and older but to all their citizens - I don't think it's right to put any of our safety net programs on the table.

If it was just strategy - I think it is a bad one. I think it hurts the Democratic brand.

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Wow, really, are Democrats now a party that want to gut Social Security in favor of tax cuts? [View all] MadHound Dec 2011 OP

Who would have guessed Obama would have to make concessions with Rs to pass a tax cut? LonePirate Dec 2011 #1

Way to many corporate whores in both parties. sarcasmo Dec 2011 #2

You got that right AnOhioan Dec 2011 #3

The question posed in the last paragraph. tblue Dec 2011 #4

I am as amazed as you are Tumbulu Dec 2011 #5

But...but Democrats will continue to vote for anyone with a D after their name Bogart Dec 2011 #6

Not all Democrats will do that I don't believe. NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #26

Not all, I agree. But enough establishment types would. And they call the shots. Bogart Dec 2011 #34

It's one of the best ways to stimulate the economy cally Dec 2011 #7

Sorry, I don't know where you went to school, but you are wrong MadHound Dec 2011 #8

payroll taxes have a higher stimulative rate than other types of taxes cally Dec 2011 #10

They may have a higher stimulative rate than other types of tax cuts, MadHound Dec 2011 #12

Funny, you're an anonymous internet poster cally Dec 2011 #17

What's that supposed to mean? tblue Dec 2011 #21

Funny, you don't have a Nobel Prize n/t MadHound Dec 2011 #44

Meh kenfrequed Dec 2011 #61

Yeah, kenfrequed Dec 2011 #98

Krugman supports a lot of things, like trillions of dollars of money printing to get us out of our BzaDem Dec 2011 #38

Uhm... kenfrequed Dec 2011 #62

My point is that we wouldn't have to worry about inflation if the Fed embraced more QE. BzaDem Dec 2011 #83

Sorry kenfrequed Dec 2011 #97

+10 Myrina Dec 2011 #58

You tell him, cally. That was a tad condescending. juajen Dec 2011 #36

A WPA style job creation program would be sweet abelenkpe Dec 2011 #14

"A little money into the hands of the working class right now" MadHound Dec 2011 #16

Yeah I agree abelenkpe Dec 2011 #22

I think most people do know. BzaDem Dec 2011 #40

But tax cuts really don't help the economy MadHound Dec 2011 #47

You aren't bolstering your case that there is a non-zero probabilty that any other form of stimulus BzaDem Dec 2011 #86

Ah yes, that old canard, the poor, pitiful, helpless Democrats MadHound Dec 2011 #87

This is really basic stuff. The White House does not pass legislation. The Senate (alone) does not BzaDem Dec 2011 #94

That is the ideal solution tblue Dec 2011 #23

"Worst form of economic stimulus" is oxymoronic. bornskeptic Dec 2011 #51

Err.. kenfrequed Dec 2011 #63

If you are going to spend tax money to stimulate the economy, you should get the most return MadHound Dec 2011 #74

frankly, welfare is better at stimulating the economy provis99 Dec 2011 #9

Nonsense. bvar22 Dec 2011 #33

What you just described is a refundable tax credit. n/t BzaDem Dec 2011 #39

So WHY attack Social Security FICA Contributions? bvar22 Dec 2011 #57

Democrats would support it if it were the only counter-cyclical stimulus available. BzaDem Dec 2011 #85

We've had the measly 2% reduction for a year now. How's it working? Common Sense Party Dec 2011 #43

It's working pretty damn' well. bornskeptic Dec 2011 #52

I have not seen or heard about this Hutzpa Dec 2011 #11

It is the payroll tax cut that is currently in the news, MadHound Dec 2011 #13

See post #19 it explains this very well. Hutzpa Dec 2011 #25

Why not just give the entire amount paid in FICA taxes...? kentuck Dec 2011 #30

Don't think it will pass abelenkpe Dec 2011 #15

It WON'T: jenmito Dec 2011 #18

+1. BzaDem Dec 2011 #42

Trotting out another administration sychophant to try and prove your point. MadHound Dec 2011 #45

He's a very good economist who USED to work for the Obama administration. What he said is factual. jenmito Dec 2011 #53

It's a bit more complicated than both of you are putting it. Sirveri Dec 2011 #48

Actually, ProSense Dec 2011 #19

Umm, yeah thanks again for reiterating my point MadHound Dec 2011 #27

It already is Major Nikon Dec 2011 #77

You cannot believe that? kentuck Dec 2011 #29

I know believing hard facts and raw data is so passe these days. BzaDem Dec 2011 #41

Why believe facts? It's what you feel must be the case that counts, I guess? stevenleser Dec 2011 #69

Yep. My hometown paper describes it as a cut in social security taxes. mmonk Dec 2011 #20

couldn't agree more. nashville_brook Dec 2011 #24

I agree with you MadHound.. kentuck Dec 2011 #28

Q: Who raised the Payroll Tax to its current rate? bhikkhu Dec 2011 #31

I think it was the Reagan Commission... kentuck Dec 2011 #32

It isn't the Democrats' fault that you are mistaken about how the law works. BzaDem Dec 2011 #35

Thanks, but you can still color me confused. NT juajen Dec 2011 #37

Sorry, but your wrong MadHound Dec 2011 #46

So is the payroll tax. So is all government revenue and spending. Robb Dec 2011 #56

Exactly, which is why Al Gore in 2000 talked about a lockbox. All funding is subject to congress' stevenleser Dec 2011 #70

FactCheck.org: Bachmann wrong that payroll tax cut hurts the SS Trust Fund. pampango Dec 2011 #49

It is up to the Congress presently in power... kentuck Dec 2011 #54

Should have bolded "Again, that shortfall will be covered by the general fund". jtuck004 Dec 2011 #55

By covering the shortage with the general fund, they are putting it on the chopping block Doctor_J Dec 2011 #68

Its always on the chopping block as is all government funding. Congress always has the power to put stevenleser Dec 2011 #71

The Democratic Party is a capitalist party. blindpig Dec 2011 #50

You can see the rightward reaction by some in our party fascisthunter Dec 2011 #59

Single Issue GOPer tactic...Moot Fighting at its best...its ALL MOOT.....Ya will never unnerstan opihimoimoi Dec 2011 #60

Why did you lump the liberals with the Democrats? IMO the Democratic party is far from liberal. rhett o rick Dec 2011 #64

Huh? "....not be a position that any Democrat, liberal or progressive is in favor of" great white snark Dec 2011 #66

Well I certainly dont align myself with Democrats that passed NSAA, vote for the rhett o rick Dec 2011 #73

That's right... all right leaning corporate sellouts fascisthunter Dec 2011 #89

Well said. nm rhett o rick Dec 2011 #93

So far, there has been no gutting of Social Security. dawg Dec 2011 #65

This is only about the 15th predicted death of Social Security in the last 2 years. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #81

One of those threats was real, kinda sorta. dawg Dec 2011 #88

Sure ... I'm familair with the ... JoePhilly Dec 2011 #91

Maybe you are right. dawg Dec 2011 #92

Many, many Dems will go along with anything the president is in favor of Doctor_J Dec 2011 #67

Who? Robb Dec 2011 #72

Well, speaking as objectively as I can, from posts I have read, Prosense is at least the one, there Dragonfli Dec 2011 #75

So there's a dozen? Robb Dec 2011 #76

Actually more, a dozen that come immediately to mind yes, because they post like addicts Dragonfli Dec 2011 #78

I find it impossible to believe you could find more than a dozen posters who have never criticized Robb Dec 2011 #79

And yet the are still apparent to anyone that cares to look, go figure /nt Dragonfli Dec 2011 #80

Would it surprise you to know Robb Dec 2011 #82

I thought we were discussing President Obama's policies and their blind support? Dragonfli Dec 2011 #84

Since there are probably roughly 50-60 regular active posters, and around 20 or so Doctor_J Dec 2011 #96

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2011 #90

Thank you for stating the obvious. GrannyK Dec 2011 #95