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Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)

108. Except the housing crash wasn't actually caused by "mass fraud".

Sat May 24, 2014, 01:27 PM

May 2014

It was caused by something else entirely. Bubble markets don't happen because of mass fraud, they happen because of collective behaviour in driving up house prices (in this case it was historically low interest rates combined with deregulation in banking that allowed commercial banks to function as investment banks, and the packaging of mortgage loans into derivative securities).

And further, the 2007-08 mortgage crisis (and the economic crisis that accompanied it) wasn't caused by "mass fraud", either. What caused it? One thing. Oil prices, which hit $140 a barrel at their peak--conventional oil production peaked c. 2004-05, demand didn't slacken, the inexorable law of supply and demand saw the price steadily increase. A lot of people with subprime mortgages (by definition the riskiest loans) suddenly found themselves faced with a decision: put gas in the tank to get to work, and put food on the table (food and other commodity prices also rising because of oil prices) or pay the mortgage....which led to widespread defaults and the writedown on mortgage-backed securities.

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It's rare I outright implore people to read an article [View all] Recursion May 2014 OP

"...cuddly feel good diversity does very little to redress this." Supersedeas May 2014 #1

Well worth reading - thanks for sharing. nt el_bryanto May 2014 #2

thank you for the recommendation.... mike_c May 2014 #3

I read it, but don't see anything new. aikoaiko May 2014 #4

This ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #5

Right, but people in the present have recourse in the present, for the most part. aikoaiko May 2014 #9

It took 57 years for the Japanese internment camp reparations. M0rpheus May 2014 #15

True ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #18

Is there a statute of limitations on crimes of such magnitude? I don't think so. sabrina 1 May 2014 #52

Damn Sabrina. bravenak May 2014 #53

Yes, I believe we have fewer morons feeling they can act with impunity against people if they knew sabrina 1 May 2014 #116

What crime? treestar May 2014 #94

What crime? The deprivation of the human rights and enslavement of an entire population sabrina 1 May 2014 #105

There is a statute of limitations on everything but murder treestar May 2014 #109

No it does not. When a country's government is responsible for crimes against humanity, the statute sabrina 1 May 2014 #115

No statute of limitations on crimes against humanity (mass murder). Just ask Charles Taylor. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #112

Can you cite that law? treestar May 2014 #113

They had no problem charging Taylor under international law, decades after the atrocities nomorenomore08 May 2014 #114

THIS malaise May 2014 #13

Paying for other people's sins from long ago? Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #8

I do agree that people who are alive today and have been wronged by... aikoaiko May 2014 #10

Let me share a little ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #20

Thank you for sharing your story. aikoaiko May 2014 #47

Thanks for the very concrete example. That is very informative. GoneFishin May 2014 #85

Now, granted ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #86

Land is a huge foundation for a comfortable, better life. A few people I know have GoneFishin May 2014 #92

Relatedly ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #97

I can't relate to over-the-top weddings. It seems like when a couple is just starting off GoneFishin May 2014 #101

it was not just subprime loans that went under during the crash magical thyme May 2014 #62

Again, since people have issues grasping this: Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #64

I'm not saying that some groups didn't get hurt worse than others magical thyme May 2014 #71

There is a significant difference... Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #73

"Whether the housing crash "hurt every homeowner" is neither here nor there;" magical thyme May 2014 #107

Except the housing crash wasn't actually caused by "mass fraud". Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #108

If you took that away from that article, then you didn't read it Number23 May 2014 #38

Doesn't seem like you read it then. It's mostly about post-WWII housing policy Recursion May 2014 #48

But pre WWII discrimation is the more difficult issue aikoaiko May 2014 #59

Does it contain any proposal for actually carrying out reparations treestar May 2014 #95

... treestar May 2014 #99

There's the section on Belinda Royall treestar May 2014 #96

You might consider rereading this incredibly chervilant May 2014 #103

I think I'll do that. aikoaiko May 2014 #104

Pulitzer material. Lint Head May 2014 #6

Nah. I reject the entire premise of reparations. closeupready May 2014 #7

Why? eom. 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #21

A lot of reasons - it'd set a bad precedent; centuries have passed; closeupready May 2014 #23

Bad precedent? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #24

Someone I've heard of before who isn't too extreme and closeupready May 2014 #25

Would these guys do? M0rpheus May 2014 #28

Yes. What have they written on the subject of reparations? closeupready May 2014 #31

Here ya go! M0rpheus May 2014 #33

Gah! No, centuries haven't passed. Read the article. It's about postwar housing policy Recursion May 2014 #49

no handmade34 May 2014 #55

T. Hartmann was talking about reparations yesterday. ErikJ May 2014 #11

I read it last night - loved this line malaise May 2014 #12

Excellent read. Thanks for posting! nt adirondacker May 2014 #14

I'm afraid I was not impressed. Donald Ian Rankin May 2014 #16

So you wish to ignore ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #22

Yes, completely. Donald Ian Rankin May 2014 #26

Even though the wealthy that was built on that stolen labor remains? eom. 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #27

Yes. Donald Ian Rankin May 2014 #29

I don't know if 'legitimately' would be the word I'd choose. Shandris May 2014 #34

Precisely. The sins (and the oppression) of the fathers passes on to later generations - whathehell May 2014 #37

NO IT HASN'T! ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #36

YES IT HAS! I CAN USE CAPS AND PUNCTUATION TOO!!! Donald Ian Rankin May 2014 #41

The crimes of black oppression continued legally into the 1960s, so your timeframe is clearly off. kwassa May 2014 #75

150 years ago? Blacks were still being lynched in the 1960's. JaneyVee May 2014 #39

Reread the exchange that begins with post #16; I think you've come in in the middle. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin May 2014 #42

No, he's pointing out Coates's central argument, which you're still avoiding Recursion May 2014 #51

this happens a lot noiretextatique May 2014 #88

And.as Strong black said above, sometimes the wealth changed hands illegitimately too. panader0 May 2014 #43

If they were talking about a painting, would you have the same opinion? KitSileya May 2014 #56

IT'S NOT ABOUT SLAVERY Recursion May 2014 #50

Yeah, you didn't read the article either. It is not about slavery, but FHA housing policy. kwassa May 2014 #78

Thank you!!! mstinamotorcity2 May 2014 #17

I find the article's reasoning to be weak, and its prescriptions antithetical to forward movement. appal_jack May 2014 #19

The 99% should support basic minimum income RainDog May 2014 #44

I agree 100%, RainDog. nt appal_jack May 2014 #45

Remind me where Coates mentioned *slavery* reparations? Recursion May 2014 #58

In the case of Belinda Royall treestar May 2014 #102

I support Reparations, although in this political climate whathehell May 2014 #30

I'm still reading it, trying to not skim through it. Starry Messenger May 2014 #32

Worked with a teacher who help bust banks with the undercover group on Chicago's South Side. ancianita May 2014 #35

Whether or not one agrees with reparations is almost second to me re: this piece Number23 May 2014 #40

Number23: Raine1967 May 2014 #89

It's obvious that people did not and WILL not read it. And then these same folks will be in every Number23 May 2014 #110

What I'm doing to say is something that I may never ever understand. Raine1967 May 2014 #111

Thanks for posting. This should be required reading for every American. octoberlib May 2014 #46

Will do. Thanks for the link. nt Hekate May 2014 #54

Excellent piece and required reading for all Americans nt steve2470 May 2014 #57

What a revealing quote this is: DebJ May 2014 #60

i jus do not know of any workable compensation for things that old Leme May 2014 #61

What do you mean "that old"? He's talking about the 1950s and 1960s Recursion May 2014 #63

sounds like it Leme May 2014 #65

Why do you assume "reparations" means it's about slavery? (nt) Recursion May 2014 #66

reparations generally mean money Leme May 2014 #117

i looked, title is Leme May 2014 #67

It's talking about reparations gollygee May 2014 #68

Writers don't write headlines, editors do Recursion May 2014 #69

Like i said Leme May 2014 #72

Title of peice is misleading Leme May 2014 #70

Sigh Recursion May 2014 #74

it's an introductory peice Leme May 2014 #80

Yes, it's a summary of the past four years of research he has conducted Recursion May 2014 #81

yeah, ok for what it is Leme May 2014 #83

Would the people be identifiable? treestar May 2014 #93

Mr. Ross took up his case in 1968 treestar May 2014 #98

What happens to a dream deferred? gollygee May 2014 #106

I agree treestar May 2014 #91

I am not surprised the discussion has shifted to Harmony Blue May 2014 #76

go to Atlantic Monthly Leme May 2014 #82

he tells a story, not fictional Leme May 2014 #77

Is the Atlantic Monthly a scholarly review? kwassa May 2014 #79

no, not scholarly Leme May 2014 #84

That you for this. Raine1967 May 2014 #87

anyone believe america was ever "ready" to pay reparations? noiretextatique May 2014 #90

This is interesting treestar May 2014 #100