General Discussion

Laelth

(32,017 posts)

198. People have accused sociobiology of "determinism."

Sun May 25, 2014, 09:51 AM

May 2014

I find that critique lacking because no sociobiologist that I have read believes that our instincts are completely deterministic, especially when we're talking about mating choices. People are shaped by their environment, and an innumerable number of variables affect human mating behavior. That said, on the aggregate, taking into consideration the unique choices of many people, we can see trends that are enlightening and suggest that our biology certainly influences our choices. To the extent that sociobiology explains why people make certain choices, I find it useful, and I am skeptical of claims that sociobiology has been "debunked."

This is just an example that I find useful:

http://www.livescience.com/9487-women-pick-mates-flings.html

ymmv.

-Laelth

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This killer that went on a rampage shooting [View all] Harmony Blue May 2014 OP

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #1

I swear. bravenak May 2014 #2

Better self delete, juries already nuked two of your comrade's disgusting posts JJChambers May 2014 #45

No thank you. bravenak May 2014 #54

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #3

I am diametrically different Harmony Blue May 2014 #5

Yet here you are BainsBane May 2014 #7

He does not have a legimtate grievance Harmony Blue May 2014 #12

The woman who killed her kids was likely suffering from a pychotic break BainsBane May 2014 #14

We don't know that is why we are left with asking Harmony Blue May 2014 #24

What are you saying? Mrdrboi May 2014 #10

The self-recommend, always a sure winner. Starry Messenger May 2014 #4

+1 gollygee May 2014 #6

To answer your qeustion Harmony Blue May 2014 #8

That wasn't love he was feeling. Starry Messenger May 2014 #11

He displayed creepy stalker like behavior Harmony Blue May 2014 #15

He was a sociopath and a bigot. Starry Messenger May 2014 #23

Yeah, in the video I saw he was really creepy. He did not sound distraught to me at all. And RKP5637 May 2014 #229

+1 redqueen May 2014 #16

Did you seriously just use Star Wars to counter a point about fantasy? BainsBane May 2014 #13

"How come male suffering often results in female bodies on the floor" BainsBane May 2014 #9

There is no validation Harmony Blue May 2014 #18

So I should relinquish my right to choose whom I have sex with BainsBane May 2014 #22

I don't ensore MRA ideology Harmony Blue May 2014 #25

You have identified yourself as a grasseater BainsBane May 2014 #27

Nope Harmony Blue May 2014 #32

Pardon my ignorance but thucythucy May 2014 #282

Had to look that up too treestar May 2014 #296

Thanks. thucythucy May 2014 #301

It's like something out of "A Handmaid's Tale." Absolutely nuts. Squinch May 2014 #122

Because he had a very strong sense of sexual entitlement gollygee May 2014 #28

Right but he didn't have an adult role model explain to him I suspect Harmony Blue May 2014 #34

People don't need adults to explain gollygee May 2014 #35

Young adults don't fully mature (their brains) Harmony Blue May 2014 #57

He didn't kill people because he has an immature brain gollygee May 2014 #59

But I can understand wondering aloud what drove him to such a violent extreme. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #97

The inference is also that Squinch May 2014 #104

"It blames everyone but the creepy little monster himself." Exactly the problem, in a nutshell. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #109

Because there was no element with them in which Squinch May 2014 #113

The implication seems to be that some people simply don't matter as much as others. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #124

Yup. That one gender is here for the gratification of the other, and their choices not only don't Squinch May 2014 #126

Ultimately, we all have to live with each other's choices, so long as they don't violate anyone's nomorenomore08 May 2014 #128

Plus a fucking thousand... Violet_Crumble May 2014 #168

Amazing, isn't it? Squinch May 2014 #350

For what it's worth, when I look at the guy, I can't help but think, whathehell May 2014 #265

That's a simplistic take on it. Mojo Electro May 2014 #192

Not to keep from killing people gollygee May 2014 #279

Of course not. Mojo Electro May 2014 #318

I suspect this guy's issues didn't spring to life on his 21st birthday. I'm quite sure he would Flatulo May 2014 #400

I actually read his "manefesto" in which he describes giftedgirl77 May 2014 #402

Exactly. It's tempting to ascribe his actions to one major Flatulo May 2014 #403

There definitly wasn't just one thing & he needed giftedgirl77 May 2014 #405

Was he raised by chimpanzees? He had a father, teachers, counselors. uppityperson May 2014 #130

He actually was told this. Read his "manifesto." He wasn't listening, he didn't care, seaglass May 2014 #187

How do you know "he didn't have an adult role model" thucythucy May 2014 #286

BULL DonCoquixote May 2014 #349

When did rejection get to be a "male only" problem? whathehell May 2014 #256

that is my point here. a clear indication it is all about entitlement. only men get rejected? seabeyond May 2014 #259

Yes...Although I think other matters were also at play here, whathehell May 2014 #263

That is the essence of it, yes. Quantess May 2014 #394

+1 treestar May 2014 #336

omg...I was harassed for not saying hello noiretextatique May 2014 #468

I've noticed. I've certainly had my share of rejection, Raksha May 2014 #421

Yes, thank you, same here. whathehell May 2014 #467

Hear fucking hear! redqueen May 2014 #423

Thank you, Your Majesty! whathehell May 2014 #466

I didn't respond because I kept thinking, Le Taz Hot May 2014 #26

Because self-harm is culturally coded as "feminine," while harming others is coded as "masculine"? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #31

Wow. This is not a young man feeling pain about misunderstandings. This is a murderous psychopath. Squinch May 2014 #17

He took it to the extreme Harmony Blue May 2014 #20

Seriously, I don't think you are realizing how far out you sound on this. If someone is thinking Squinch May 2014 #29

You don't know many people if you don't think we all suffer from rejection. Laelth May 2014 #36

Do you feel that someone needs to be punished when you don't get a date? Does that seem natural? Squinch May 2014 #75

No. I never said that. Laelth May 2014 #81

The op is saying that these murders are the result of some kind of ubiquitous Western male Squinch May 2014 #86

It appears this young man was very entitled. Laelth May 2014 #177

Interesting that you are saying that I was the one who was bringing the discussion to who is Squinch May 2014 #267

Sigh. Nevermind. n/t Laelth May 2014 #269

+1000000000 noiretextatique May 2014 #469

Consider the source. Do we expect anything less? Squinch May 2014 #470

I haven't been paying attention noiretextatique May 2014 #472

that evo psych stuff has been debunked so often and so consistently and still..... seabeyond May 2014 #91

I'll take your word for it that socio-biology has been "debunked." Laelth May 2014 #178

Bad genes. GeorgeGist May 2014 #230

Or maybe trying too hard to "understand" him will help provide justification for further tragedies. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #106

I give you credit for continuing to think about this. Laelth May 2014 #180

Nothing wrong with that. My problem is when "understanding" seems to stray too close nomorenomore08 May 2014 #182

As I said elsewhere, there's plenty of condemnation to go around. Laelth May 2014 #190

I'm seeing a lot of posts here that seem to be conflating 'understanding' with 'approving'. Flatulo May 2014 #401

I see that, and I've been trying not to do the same thing myself. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #411

Why is it always some man telling us what we want? treestar May 2014 #337

Men (generally) have always wanted to know "what women want." Laelth May 2014 #387

Well why don't they get to know the individual women treestar May 2014 #392

+1 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #40

I am stunned by this thread. Squinch May 2014 #82

i am not stunned, and i am disgusted. all this validation is exactly what had one young man take it seabeyond May 2014 #93

I wonder if these men making these arguments are aware that one of the things they are really doing Squinch May 2014 #95

shocked as shit harmony would do a thread bemoaning the men not getting the hot gal. not. seabeyond May 2014 #102

Yes. Some people do seem to have a groove they're stuck in, but this is beyond the pale. Squinch May 2014 #108

I think he was just a serial killer oneofthe99 May 2014 #19

This is true Harmony Blue May 2014 #21

I will be very surprised to learn that he killed anyone prior to starting this Schema Thing May 2014 #50

He's a classic spree killer, not a serial killer. As for his mental state, it Nay May 2014 #71

Yep, like Andrew Cunnanan. pamela May 2014 #326

If every guy that couldn't get laid went on a homicidal rampage there would be no humans left. Throd May 2014 #30

Great post. The OP makes me uncomfortable as well. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #121

I'm with you on this. Iggo May 2014 #134

THROD NAILS IT Skittles May 2014 #149

yep you nailed it steve2470 May 2014 #163

Excellent post JustAnotherGen May 2014 #171

You can't fix a problem until you understand the problem. Laelth May 2014 #193

This message was self-deleted by its author Laelth May 2014 #33

Oh my fucking god do you hear yourself? Sheldon Cooper May 2014 #37

Indeed. Laelth May 2014 #39

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #43

But equating human behavior with that of the "lower animals" isn't exactly rational either. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #44

No, of course. We are not slaves to SOME of our instincts. Laelth May 2014 #64

All I'm saying is that the world isn't as simple as a lot of the evo-psych types make it out to be. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #72

I am gald you admitted to having similar feelings. Laelth May 2014 #77

"If somebody had just listened to the shooter and tried to understand him..." You're more optimistic nomorenomore08 May 2014 #85

Indeed. Those feelings do not justify treating others badly. Laelth May 2014 #174

It's a fine line we walk, with all this stuff. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #183

Most men I know have had feelings like that at one time or another. Laelth May 2014 #186

I'm just not sure it's really an issue of "be[ing] a sexual animal." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #191

Most men you know have had feelings like what? redqueen May 2014 #243

My dear redqueen, I am honored to have generated a response from you. Laelth May 2014 #249

tell me. do women get to have a chip on the shoulder not getting the hot guy? or is that privilege seabeyond May 2014 #79

Sure they can. As far as I'm concerned anyway. People are "entitled" to feel whatever they want. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #87

the POINT. women do not go around with a chip they do not get the hot man. yet many men will admit seabeyond May 2014 #88

I agree with basically everything you wrote there. And no matter how people "feel" subjectively nomorenomore08 May 2014 #92

what has had me so concerned so long is so much of our society, so in our face is always reinforcing seabeyond May 2014 #94

Absolutely. It's a basic lack of care or concern for others - in this case, women - that is used nomorenomore08 May 2014 #103

Can I hug you? laundry_queen May 2014 #138

how many women do we hear whining about not getting the hot man and the hot man only wants the seabeyond May 2014 #144

I've known a few women who whine about not getting the hot guy... Violet_Crumble May 2014 #169

+1 and a woman trying to woo a man would get all kinds of insults treestar May 2014 #339

Not only that, but if you don't "get the girl", that means you are a failure. dawg May 2014 #335

that is true treestar May 2014 #340

Correct...A feminist writer once said that she was against legalized prostitution whathehell May 2014 #270

She's got a point. Squinch May 2014 #323

Yes, I thought so too. n/t whathehell May 2014 #330

It makes you wonder if women would buy a man for sex treestar May 2014 #342

Well, there are such things as gigolos.. whathehell May 2014 #344

When women have the money treestar May 2014 #355

exactly. in any given situation, in all of life, i take it to me first. and maul it over. seabeyond May 2014 #362

Nobody is "entitled" to act as this murderer did, neither men nor women. Laelth May 2014 #181

Breathing is not an instinct but a biological imperative. uppityperson May 2014 #132

According to my sociology textbook humans do not have instincts laundry_queen May 2014 #136

your sociology textbook is wrong. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #236

LOL k. nt laundry_queen May 2014 #262

What instincts do people have? I am curious, thanks uppityperson May 2014 #297

"instincts" and "biology" treestar May 2014 #299

that I know, also people use words in different ways and before starting to snark, I'd like to make uppityperson May 2014 #302

So therefore we should ignore biology and pretend we don't have instincts? Warren Stupidity May 2014 #332

"Biology" only assigns treestar May 2014 #334

a common example is suckling - the infant side of nursing. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #322

breathing however is not an instinct. I think part of the confusion might be in the definition uppityperson May 2014 #324

Did I claim breathing was an instinct? Warren Stupidity May 2014 #327

No, you did not. Someone else did. nt uppityperson May 2014 #331

they don't go beyond rooting and suckling treestar May 2014 #408

I don't believe that is true either. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #464

there might be, but they don't mean all women treestar May 2014 #345

Thanks for that treestar May 2014 #346

Is it possible that our sex drive is a "biological imperative?" Laelth May 2014 #212

I was commenting on a line you wrote uppityperson May 2014 #276

Fine. What I fail to see is the relevance of the distinction you are making. Laelth May 2014 #281

If you view breathing as in instinct, it tells me something about you and impacts how I consider uppityperson May 2014 #300

Fair enough. Laelth May 2014 #383

Yes, I agree Shankapotomus May 2014 #73

Are you joking? Starry Messenger May 2014 #41

"And women are not cats in fucking heat." Exactly. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #48

THIS X 10000000 bettyellen May 2014 #118

Condemning me for thinking and writing about this issue ... Laelth May 2014 #194

Your characterization of women of being programmed to sleep with vicious barbarians. Starry Messenger May 2014 #195

Do you deny that instincts play a role in our sexual choices? Laelth May 2014 #202

Moving of the goalposts noted. Starry Messenger May 2014 #204

Your lack of desire to engage me honestly and sincerely on this topic ... Laelth May 2014 #207

I have never been more honest and sincere. Starry Messenger May 2014 #209

IT is mostly the brain treestar May 2014 #258

Excellent. I agree. Laelth May 2014 #272

the problem there. we are using story telling and make believe to conclude what that very seabeyond May 2014 #277

Humans, human brains, have evolved beyond reptile f*ing in the primordial ooze or birds building uppityperson May 2014 #304

You demonstrate a common misconception. Laelth May 2014 #416

OFFS redqueen May 2014 #424

Smile. Laelth May 2014 #425

Stop telling women to smile. redqueen May 2014 #427

you know what. coming in this OP now, i remember. the little boy forcing kisses on the girl. seabeyond May 2014 #431

Holy shit, no I don't remember that... redqueen May 2014 #435

maybe golly was in that thread. nt seabeyond May 2014 #437

Wow. Such hostility. Laelth May 2014 #457

"My "smile" in the above post was an attempt to say "I am smiling" and not a command" redqueen May 2014 #461

Fair enough. Laelth May 2014 #463

If they don't agree with you they are "close-minded"? What "instincts" are you talking about? uppityperson May 2014 #303

Yes treestar May 2014 #409

Hmm ... Laelth May 2014 #412

What evidence? treestar May 2014 #413

Let me put it this way. Laelth May 2014 #414

Why? Are we doing something automatically? treestar May 2014 #419

So, pheromones don't exist. Laelth May 2014 #420

you are really invested in htis. i have not even gotten to your post from this morning, of story seabeyond May 2014 #432

I am working on a longer piece on this subject. Laelth May 2014 #447

when a man tells us we have to have our barbarians, and many of us in a lifetime have never seabeyond May 2014 #449

It's an alternate to the Bible treestar May 2014 #452

and that is it. bottomline. that is the argument men will make when calling out the bullshit. seabeyond May 2014 #453

We only have two instincts treestar May 2014 #451

I am not interested in the "proper" scientific terminology. Laelth May 2014 #456

Just reading that, it does not appear that they treestar May 2014 #450

wouldnt the theory be that all us women would now be tingly for this mass murderer? i am not seeing seabeyond May 2014 #454

the vicious barabarian stuff is a hilarious, cartoonish idea bettyellen May 2014 #203

It's hack pop-psychology--at best. Starry Messenger May 2014 #224

exactly, it's human to look for sources to confirm your own biases, but get real. Except for a few bettyellen May 2014 #228

Exactly. My friends and I have never dated the flesh-mountains we're supposed to be Starry Messenger May 2014 #231

I did in college once, a semi pro footballer. It was out of curiosity and he had a motor cycle and bettyellen May 2014 #257

I know, if we like a guy and he does not ask us out treestar May 2014 #289

It is funny, I admit. Laelth May 2014 #232

You have a bunch of women telling you that we don't want vicious brutes gollygee May 2014 #274

As I said above ... Laelth May 2014 #382

You don't blame women for acting on their "instincts", avoiding nasty assholes? gee, what a guy uppityperson May 2014 #306

Also assuming women are different from men treestar May 2014 #285

Young women going crazy for vicious barbarians like.... PassingFair May 2014 #406

laughing my fuggin ass off. that is funny. all that alpha that he is. there it is boys. lol. nt seabeyond May 2014 #433

I hope most people maker better choices than to kill a bunch of people as they age gollygee May 2014 #42

That's really not fair, is it? Laelth May 2014 #66

He was an entitled ass who thought he deserved sex gollygee May 2014 #313

golly... were you in the thread harmony started about the 6 yr old boy kissing and harassing a seabeyond May 2014 #440

Evolutinary biology is always a controversial subject to discuss Harmony Blue May 2014 #47

Humans are apes. Laelth May 2014 #58

As an apex species our repodructive strategy is closer Harmony Blue May 2014 #68

I am not following you on that one. Laelth May 2014 #70

The biological determinism line of argument was tried decades ago to explain the failings ancianita May 2014 #112

i am glad to see you were not discourage way back when. seabeyond May 2014 #116

Of course! ancianita May 2014 #120

People have accused sociobiology of "determinism." Laelth May 2014 #198

Humans are primates. GeorgeGist May 2014 #237

LOL. If you have any more nits that need picking ... Laelth May 2014 #241

claiming untrue things as true impacts how we view the rest of what you say. uppityperson May 2014 #309

Interesting, I recall a debate in a policy class seminar that brought up Clan of the Cavebear adirondacker May 2014 #360

w.t.f. "The people we mate with are seldom the people we decide to create a social structure with" uppityperson May 2014 #308

Evolutionary biology is a respected science that follows scientific method ismnotwasm May 2014 #105

I am not talking about evolutionary psychology Harmony Blue May 2014 #201

talk to real scientists about that. it is more foolish to blindly follow something thats disapproved seabeyond May 2014 #223

The entire mass of a collapsed solar system of bullshit condensed into a single post! Throd May 2014 #53

just another entitled asshole Skittles May 2014 #153

How you educate your daughters is your own business. Laelth May 2014 #200

I assume you're not a parent. GeorgeGist May 2014 #238

Choosing a mate based upon "instinctual signals" whathehell May 2014 #266

and we generally choose our mates per interaction with opposite gender parent at age 4'ish to -7.... seabeyond May 2014 #275

No. treestar May 2014 #292

Debunked pseudoscience ismnotwasm May 2014 #100

"Debunked" is in the eye of the beholder. Laelth May 2014 #214

But not so "useful" that you avoid stereotyping women thucythucy May 2014 #298

I think you know what I meant. Laelth May 2014 #459

Well, hell, now that he's proven he's da'MAN I wanna have sex with him and his high testosterone uppityperson May 2014 #133

Here's an article on the subject, if you're truly interested. Laelth May 2014 #216

Thank you, I looked at it and I agree that behavior is influenced by out genetics. uppityperson May 2014 #280

I consider it progress if you are willing to grant that sociobiology is relevant. Laelth May 2014 #283

That is all you got out of my post? Did you miss correlation vs causation, making assumptions? uppityperson May 2014 #293

LOL Skittles May 2014 #141

No doubt you are right. Laelth May 2014 #217

What the fuck did I just read? Number23 May 2014 #142

It's the 21st century, and we call this planet "Earth" (in English, at least). Laelth May 2014 #218

Seriously? "If you have a better explanation for mating habits" thucythucy May 2014 #311

As I said above ... Laelth May 2014 #385

Sorry. "Knee jerk condemnation" of abject foolishness is all I've got Number23 May 2014 #380

Yes. I see that. n/t Laelth May 2014 #384

amazing, isn't? noiretextatique May 2014 #471

women are genetically driven to seek out vicious barbarians? fishwax May 2014 #158

+1 for this entire subthread. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #164

Yeah, somebody's been watching too many Armor All commercials theHandpuppet May 2014 #167

I don't watch television. Laelth May 2014 #222

clooney does not have the face they are talking, so they say "smouldering" eyes. to be able to seabeyond May 2014 #226

Sorry. I have great respect for you, but I am not following you on that post. n/t Laelth May 2014 #234

pitt has the jaw. clooney does not. clooney does not fit this supposed preference. seabeyond May 2014 #235

Hmm ... Laelth May 2014 #386

and i can make the same comment to you about science not suiting you, and how i actualy value true seabeyond May 2014 #393

Thanks for the link. n/t Laelth May 2014 #458

. Squinch May 2014 #351

But we're the bad people because we don't want to understaaaannnd, man. Starry Messenger May 2014 #196

I said I would ignore you, but ... Laelth May 2014 #240

rofl Starry Messenger May 2014 #246

Everything you said (in the post above) is true. Laelth May 2014 #250

It starts with not turning this around on women with fake science. Starry Messenger May 2014 #253

If you think women are my enemy, you are dead wrong. Laelth May 2014 #254

You've gotten a lot of feedback on your post. Starry Messenger May 2014 #255

Trust me. I knew, from the beginning, that what I had to say here would not be popular. Laelth May 2014 #260

It's not "unpopular", it's simply incorrect. Starry Messenger May 2014 #264

But, but ... Laelth May 2014 #268

And none of that has anything to do with why this sociopath just blew away several people. Starry Messenger May 2014 #271

I think it has a lot to do with the tragedy we are discussing. Laelth May 2014 #273

You can't help believing what you write, refuse to consider and learn from others replying? uppityperson May 2014 #312

I will accept that critique. Laelth May 2014 #415

I do not blindly believe what someone tells me, that is true. Thank you for noticing. eom uppityperson May 2014 #417

Getting men to realize they are not entitled the way that guy thought treestar May 2014 #291

maybe he couldn't attract any women because we viewed them as sluts? Maybe he missed the cues that uppityperson May 2014 #310

So it appears. Laelth May 2014 #221

yes, i disagree that women are hard coded to seek vicious barbarians fishwax May 2014 #379

If you actually believe that immuno-suppressants leave one with a "killer" immune system, Ikonoklast May 2014 #248

I will assume that you have something to add that I do not understand. Laelth May 2014 #252

"suppressant" means weaker, lower. They have a lower, suppressed immune system. uppityperson May 2014 #315

*crickets* Starry Messenger May 2014 #341

He hasn't posted for a couple hours, let's see if he comments when he starts again. uppityperson May 2014 #343

well, he posted a bunch but never replied to this huge error, so indeed. uppityperson May 2014 #389

Hello, I wanted to make sure you understood "suppressed" does not mean "strong" but weaker uppityperson May 2014 #429

There are always those that want biology treestar May 2014 #295

+1. yes. nt seabeyond May 2014 #363

lol redqueen May 2014 #426

totally WRONG about that immune system. Suppressed is WEAK, not strong. uppityperson May 2014 #316

I probably have a high testosterone level and a "killer" immune system. dawg May 2014 #333

So, you're going to join the OP in blaming women. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #396

To all the women who rejected him - Good call, ladies. nt Xipe Totec May 2014 #38

+a billion gollygee May 2014 #46

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Le Taz Hot May 2014 #51

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised. nt redqueen May 2014 #56

Yeah, but to start a thread on DU Le Taz Hot May 2014 #61

They're out there. Squinch May 2014 #80

Yep. We knew it was coming. theHandpuppet May 2014 #67

If sexual frustration is really such a commonplace motive for murder, then why do pro athletes etc. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #55

If sexual frustration is such a commonplace motive for murder, KitSileya May 2014 #160

No argument from me. This OP had me squicked out from the start. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #162

chip on should cause cant get hot gal, sexually frustrated. what about women? men that make sex ALL seabeyond May 2014 #84

Sadly I saw that same rationale parroted after the Virginia Tech tragedy Blue_Tires May 2014 #157

According to what I read in his lengthy "Manifesto"... PassingFair May 2014 #407

I'm not sure I buy your thesis. At this point I'm not sure what he was or was not taught, per your Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #49

Indeed we don't know what his upbringing was like Harmony Blue May 2014 #65

"We don't know what his upbringing was like" thucythucy May 2014 #378

those are really good points. OP comments a lot on his upbringing, yet here op says we don't know uppityperson May 2014 #390

I don't agree with everything you say bluestateguy May 2014 #52

I think a lot of folks are connecting this with the OP's prior posting history. Fairly or not. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #62

They can if they wish Harmony Blue May 2014 #69

Absolutely. And I don't accuse you of any particular ill intent in posting this OP, even if I find nomorenomore08 May 2014 #78

I think it would be a mistake to read too much into such a vicious, senseless act. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #60

Women have spent millennia "understanding" males' needs. Understanding is the booby prize. ancianita May 2014 #63

This is it ^^^^^^^^ Those urging "understanding" seem to think that this monster's motivations Squinch May 2014 #90

and what needs to be taken to the heart is many many young men feel the same only a much lower seabeyond May 2014 #96

There is, obviously, a set of men who do think that. And that set of men Squinch May 2014 #99

squich. i think htis entiltement is more than just "those" men. men we love. men... seabeyond May 2014 #110

Oh, totally. I think we are all sometimes caught up in that conditioning. I know even I STILL Squinch May 2014 #115

The fundamental lesson that these guys fail to learn is that they are not entitled to sex alarimer May 2014 #74

Boys and men have all the examples they want to see. One need not have any "teaching" to learn. ancianita May 2014 #119

fuckin for real harmony? you really went there. first line. done. i cant hardly stomach seabeyond May 2014 #76

don't you understand, seabeyond? WE CRAVE 6 FOOTERS WITH BAGS OF MONEY!!! Skittles May 2014 #139

it seems like a lot of what is being defended here is the very issues that drove this dude to murder seabeyond May 2014 #147

There are no excuses, I condemn this killer just as much as the woman who quinnox May 2014 #83

play by play cutting to the point DonCoquixote May 2014 #89

But the biggest reason why women DonCoquixote May 2014 #98

It's early JustAnotherGen May 2014 #173

codswallop. baloney. I just read his entire memoir. he was a littly psychopath- in the most cali May 2014 #101

Trying to rationalize why a person Aerows May 2014 #107

Oh, haven't you heard? Squinch May 2014 #117

And was sufficiently provided with pity sex, I suppose... nomorenomore08 May 2014 #123

I think it would be more like, "We know he makes your skin crawl, and will probably physically Squinch May 2014 #125

Exactly. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #127

"And I'm a narcissistic lunatic Aerows May 2014 #131

No. GeorgeGist May 2014 #245

...and he had easy access to guns. Aristus May 2014 #111

Damn Solly Mack May 2014 #114

I do not understand what "he had no proper male role model in his life" means. Blame his dad & male uppityperson May 2014 #129

"... male suffering that we often don't fully understand in the Western world." ?? only in the East? LooseWilly May 2014 #135

you are a real piece of work Skittles May 2014 #137

This is the second post today I've read from DUers most hostile to women and/or poc that are Number23 May 2014 #140

Holy sh** get me the FUCK OUTTA THIS THREAD!! Number23 May 2014 #143

good lord.... seabeyond May 2014 #145

The OP is the same person that went into a diatribe against blacks... Cali_Democrat May 2014 #148

Wow. Apparently so. kysrsoze May 2014 #152

I'll never forget that. bravenak May 2014 #161

I've been meaning to say this for a while now thucythucy May 2014 #305

Thank you. bravenak May 2014 #325

I second what thucythucy said! Squinch May 2014 #353

Aw shucks! bravenak May 2014 #357

I will third it. PeaceNikki May 2014 #371

Thank you. bravenak May 2014 #374

yup. group hug. with thucy. nt seabeyond May 2014 #364

I am so glad you're back. bravenak May 2014 #366

a little. right now? just a little. and only a maybe. and thank you. nt seabeyond May 2014 #368

Bingo. Starry Messenger May 2014 #184

Oh yeah, I'm aware. That's why I said that this is the second OP I've read from posters well known Number23 May 2014 #381

Another bullshit, armchair psychoanalysis based on one's own small frame of reference... kysrsoze May 2014 #146

both the killer and the OP suffer from an IT'S ALL ABOUT ME affliction Skittles May 2014 #150

In this case, the armchair psychoanalysis was dead-on. Thank you. kysrsoze May 2014 #151

This kid was a time bomb. RandySF May 2014 #154

Well...how else do you explain why serial killers get marriage proposals in prison? davidn3600 May 2014 #155

i imagine trash is comfortable hanging with trash. ya think? dont you think like hangs with like, seabeyond May 2014 #156

"I imagine trash is comfortable hanging with trash." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #165

those abused as kids often already know what it is to love an abuser. barabarians are not appealing bettyellen May 2014 #205

"We are comfortable with the familiar, even if it is painful." A counselor told me that once, raccoon May 2014 #388

I agree with another poster that women who seek out these kind of polly7 May 2014 #215

Can you never drop that nonsense?: "many women do make very poor choices in who they choose as Squinch May 2014 #354

Kind of an unusual premise: "most parents these days have kids for social status" DFW May 2014 #159

The OP is DRENCHED in this type of nonsense HangOnKids May 2014 #166

I don't get where a statement like that could have come from DFW May 2014 #170

I don't agree with the OP in general. randome May 2014 #172

Please do not assume what is true for you and your ex, is true for the majority. There is no seaglass May 2014 #185

Completely different with us. DFW May 2014 #247

Hoodie 12kbush May 2014 #175

^^^^^Yes! Squinch May 2014 #356

Elliot Rodger would have found your writing to be true and you to be sympatico. boston bean May 2014 #176

wow. I need my puke bucket, unbelievable OP Whisp May 2014 #208

No shit. PeaceNikki May 2014 #213

agreed. guess we women really can give the discerning eye to the "bad" in our men. nt seabeyond May 2014 #233

+ 1 gollygee May 2014 #307

You brushed on a few topics worth discussing. Inkfreak May 2014 #179

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #188

Well said. Mojo Electro May 2014 #189

He sounds like a control freak to me. DebJ May 2014 #197

No this was about a narcissistic,materialistic, jealous and envious malaise May 2014 #199

Yes DustyJoe May 2014 #206

Exactly. polly7 May 2014 #219

Yep I could not believe what I was reading malaise May 2014 #225

Do you have any evidence at all that "he had no proper male role models"? thucythucy May 2014 #210

"Male suffering"? Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME? PeaceNikki May 2014 #211

thanks….you said it. dhill926 May 2014 #220

all of his manhood is wrapped up in the presentation, the girl on his arm, indicative of his worth a seabeyond May 2014 #242

What the holy fucking disgusting hell is this OP? JTFrog May 2014 #227

pretty damn close myself. and adding discussionist merely let us know, how we as minority groups seabeyond May 2014 #244

discussionist DonCoquixote May 2014 #321

+1 Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #347

good post. i agree. and saw it in a matter of a few days. you are right. now an mra post stands seabeyond May 2014 #367

I wish I was wrong DonCoquixote May 2014 #375

male suffering = understanding killing rampages? Kali May 2014 #239

I still think the 'I might be a rapist'/'what is rape?' threads were the worst. nt redqueen May 2014 #261

This one is pretty bad. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #397

I guess since I already knew guys like this were here, and I know how many there are redqueen May 2014 #398

Understandable. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #399

he also had an OP about a 6 yr old boy, forcing kisses on a girl and keeping her from her friends. seabeyond May 2014 #436

I'm torn. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #445

he contrives poor arguments. i would never ignore. just to address the wrongs immediately. seabeyond May 2014 #446

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #251

good points all. Additionally, guys are taught that it has to be a "chase" or "hunt" yurbud May 2014 #278

Let's face it, what society teaches boys to be does not attract girls. dilby May 2014 #284

are girls allowed to enjoy sports and fish? or is that only for the man? so women will be attracted seabeyond May 2014 #287

whoever this dude is DonCoquixote May 2014 #320

yes. it is another of many.... wows. nt seabeyond May 2014 #361

further, are you teaching your son to embrace and enjoy a good book? classics? thinking, pondering, seabeyond May 2014 #290

"Women" as if every one is not different treestar May 2014 #294

"weak men"? what are you trying to say? nt alp227 May 2014 #377

I would love to know what your definition of "weak men" is. NuclearDem May 2014 #462

Please stop trying to justify mass murder SwankyXomb May 2014 #288

Wow! Let me get this straight... TreasonousBastard May 2014 #314

I have a list (not on paper) of what I look for in a man. Off the top of my head, I am interested Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #328

Hmm .... dawg May 2014 #338

... lol ... Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #348

Imagine you made that list yourself treestar May 2014 #365

more than 300 replies + 12 recs, one of which is masturbatory = flamebait Kali May 2014 #317

... lol ... Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #329

OH COME ON KALI Skittles May 2014 #352

I think that's called "mansplain shaming." Squinch May 2014 #359

"WITHOUT MAKING FUN OF HIM" bah hahah. that was where you lost me. nt seabeyond May 2014 #369

been seeing several mansplaining posts in earnest, lately Skittles May 2014 #370

cause we likes our barbarians... he was just giving us what we want, right? if we like the bad boy seabeyond May 2014 #372

you nail the the logic, seabeyond Skittles May 2014 #373

LOL - yeah - this thread is just... wow. myrna minx May 2014 #434

Calling all men! Care for a ripe, juicy apple, right off the tree? Picked it myself. Zorra May 2014 #319

LOL! Raksha May 2014 #422

Personally ann--- May 2014 #358

In defense of "nice guys" and an alternate view of "bad boys" yurbud May 2014 #376

Further insight on this topic. Laelth May 2014 #391

"I try to explain to these young men that young woman in their 20's have not yet cultivated healthy" AtheistCrusader May 2014 #395

Yup. Squinch May 2014 #404

a couple months ago he said he was a grasseater. saying, he no longer plays. so i am confused. nt seabeyond May 2014 #439

UrbanDictionary did not help me puzzle out what 'grasseater' means in this context. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #442

from japan. a lot of their youth thinks sex is icky.... seabeyond May 2014 #443

Thanks, I had just finished reading BainsBane's link above. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #444

he is consistent. seabeyond May 2014 #448

he was troubled mgcgulfcoast May 2014 #410

Or maybe he was, y'know, just a creepy guy who hated women.. LanternWaste May 2014 #418

He didn't try to hide it. redqueen May 2014 #430

A very strange OP imo. Rex May 2014 #438

Most feminists here aren't surprised by this at all, from this DUer. nt redqueen May 2014 #441

The fact that you felt compelled to write all that speaks volumes about your character. nt. Rex May 2014 #428

Chris Hayes is discussing this man right now riversedge May 2014 #455

Frankly, I find your post disturbingly similar to the Elliot Rodger screeds. WinkyDink May 2014 #460

If a guy (or girl) has to repeatedly tell you how "nice" they are AnnieBW May 2014 #465