General Discussion

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)

14. So what? PNHP will fudge any numbers they have to to make a point, but...

Reply to Better Believe It (Original post)

Sat Mar 31, 2012, 04:53 PM

Mar 2012

can they explain how ANY business can pay salaries, phone bills, rent, billing, security, and whatever else they have to pay on just 15% of the gross?

I spent over 20 years in the casualty end of the insurance business and there were times when we thought an underwriting profit three years out of five was good. We also had lines where we aimed at a loss ratio just under 110%. There were reasons for that, and reasons why other insurance lines over the years have had to have underwriting profits to stay in business. But, never let facts stand in the way of a good rant, especially when reasonable explanations will be ignored anyway.

There are structural changes that will save a lot of money, such as uniform claim forms. Even more structural changes about how care is delivered will be of greater help, and that is where PNHP should have some expertise, but they don't talk much about that. Why don't they talk about that when such changes could be put in place now with without single payer, Obamacare, or anything else being changed?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

174 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Under "Obamacare" 27% to 32% of insurance premiums will go for profits and administrative costs ... [View all] Better Believe It Mar 2012 OP

Compared to an UNLIMITED percent prior to Obamacare. pnwmom Mar 2012 #1

Exactly. cbayer Mar 2012 #2

And what was the average % prior to the "Health Insurance Industry and Big Pharma Protection Act"? Better Believe It Mar 2012 #5

What I said was factual and to the point. Sorry you can't understand it. n/t pnwmom Mar 2012 #8

And sorry we don't just texshelters Mar 2012 #18

What did I say that you take issue with? pnwmom Mar 2012 #28

Some folks are logic challenged n/t elias7 Mar 2012 #57

So logically challenged that I want actual evidence. texshelters Apr 2012 #95

It's just a fact: prior to AHA, there were no limits on profits governing the insurance industry elias7 Apr 2012 #113

It's not what you said texshelters Apr 2012 #94

Did you really need any evidence for the fact that before the Act, pnwmom Apr 2012 #100

I think the point is that there had to be a limit of some sort. freedom fighter jh Mar 2012 #45

According to Morning Star bighart Apr 2012 #137

Your comment doesn't prove that the average medical/loss ratio was lower before the insurance law. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #50

About the same, apparently. HiPointDem Mar 2012 #10

That's not the way I am reading it, according to the GAO (from your link) cbayer Mar 2012 #15

The fact that 70-77% of insurers (and large group is the biggest percent of insurers) HiPointDem Mar 2012 #17

Here's a short read from back then. Remembering what it was like. Maraya1969 Apr 2012 #164

Why bother indeed. For some if it's anything Obama it's bad. great white snark Mar 2012 #6

For too many, nothing about Obama can every be bad and they texshelters Mar 2012 #21

It has already bent the cost curve in the proper direction, and the major provisions pnwmom Mar 2012 #29

And how's that profit curve working out? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #126

ACA does in fact address long term costs. elias7 Mar 2012 #59

Ha ha texshelters Apr 2012 #93

this is Not just about Obama ... slipslidingaway Mar 2012 #47

That's right. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #62

And the great white shark is silent. n/t slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #117

In nature, It is not that a Shark has no teeth (those are quite impressive), but rather, Dragonfli Apr 2012 #121

Well I certainly needed that chuckle ... slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #122

As long as the mechanism is in place, we can turn the screws as we see fit. dawg Mar 2012 #3

Ugh...you are never far behind to post something negative... vaberella Mar 2012 #4

"single payer never had a chance". It certainly didn't with President Obama opposing single payer! Better Believe It Mar 2012 #7

Do you? vaberella Mar 2012 #12

The deal was made behind closed doors with "help" from insurance/big pharma industry lobbyists. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #22

Obama was realistic he knew the votes for single payer julian09 Mar 2012 #49

That is why he had to block any discussion of a not for profit system for All ... slipslidingaway Mar 2012 #52

^ Exactly ^ Mimosa Apr 2012 #166

You are misreading the article, which is pure speculation, not fact. pnwmom Mar 2012 #9

Does the 20% include what hospitals and doctors' practices spend on administration? freedom fighter jh Mar 2012 #46

The latest manufactured outrage widget its the shop room floor ... thud. JoePhilly Mar 2012 #11

You say that like it's a bad thing... Fumesucker Mar 2012 #13

Good one. sad sally Mar 2012 #19

I for one sure understand it is very difficult to truedelphi Mar 2012 #30

... NCarolinawoman Apr 2012 #70

The posts in this subthread seem to assume that insurance companies have only highly paid executives treestar Apr 2012 #142

So your point is? truedelphi Apr 2012 #151

THe claim has to be covered by the insurance treestar Apr 2012 #152

There are no lawyers in the state of California that will sue Kaiser. truedelphi Apr 2012 #155

So what? PNHP will fudge any numbers they have to to make a point, but... TreasonousBastard Mar 2012 #14

Right. You sure can't trust 18,000 progressive doctors who support a single payer system. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #25

Those Commie basterd healing as*&&les, Health care professionals should mind their own business Dragonfli Mar 2012 #32

Unfortunately some people here can only trust those who spend their whole truedelphi Apr 2012 #156

Then please explain how MediCare has managed to do truedelphi Mar 2012 #31

VOTE A STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC BALLOT be happy and sane again! xtraxritical Mar 2012 #35

I've done that for the last 36 years Doctor_J Apr 2012 #124

Oh, yeah, I used to send him money in 2007 and 2008 Mimosa Apr 2012 #167

If your underwriting profit margins were so weak maybe xtraxritical Mar 2012 #34

Somehow they manage it. HiPointDem Mar 2012 #37

It's all good! Well..it's a little better..maybe, not as bad as it could be...or something. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2012 #16

I don't think much of what Better Believe It posts LiberalFighter Mar 2012 #20

Did you trust him when he opposed Bush policies here before they were adopted by blue dogs? Dragonfli Mar 2012 #27

+1001 rudycantfail Apr 2012 #108

+1002 freedom fighter jh Apr 2012 #141

+1000...nt SidDithers Mar 2012 #40

Yeah, why think when you can just question someone's motives. n/t EFerrari Mar 2012 #42

it doesn't require much thinking when the motives are crystal clear.... dionysus Apr 2012 #68

They are crystal clear, BBI consistently fights for the right to actual health care Dragonfli Apr 2012 #86

. dionysus Apr 2012 #105

still don't know much about the issue, as evidenced by your eloquence /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #106

+1,000,000 n/t FSogol Mar 2012 #44

oh shit! dionysus Apr 2012 #67

Perhaps you *should* think about them for awhile. Marr Apr 2012 #148

PNHP has't been thrown under the bus yet? Are the Insurance Cartel defenders getting lazy Dragonfli Mar 2012 #23

Completely ProSense Mar 2012 #24

Du rec. Nt xchrom Mar 2012 #26

Advancing to a 15% MLR (your 80/85 is inverted) is a major improvement over 36% but even at that grantcart Mar 2012 #33

Thanks for a dose of sanity grantcart groundloop Mar 2012 #36

But you are mistaken regarding fake "Republican filibusters" which can easily be ended. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #56

Excellent points, excellent reply emulatorloo Mar 2012 #38

It's a ProSense Mar 2012 #43

With plenty of drum-banging to be had here, your thoughtful post is appreciated. AtomicKitten Mar 2012 #51

Once again: Fake Republican procedural "filibusters" can be ended at anytime as can Senate rules. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #55

Quoting Senate Rules in plain English has had no impact on you so further grantcart Apr 2012 #69

Do you remember a while back when I asked you to please post more often? great white snark Apr 2012 #73

You still haven't presented any evidence that 60 votes are need to pass legislation in the Senate. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #132

Canada did not establish single payer by requiring people to buy private insurance eridani Apr 2012 #71

Those who defend this travesty don't care and are standing in the way of universal health care. Mimosa Apr 2012 #169

It will have to be done state by state eridani Apr 2012 #173

+1000 mac56 Apr 2012 #125

People sicken and die incrementally, too Mimosa Apr 2012 #168

Keep trying...nt SidDithers Mar 2012 #39

We will, until we have what you have, Health Care for all Americans so that thousands do not die sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #41

He was referring to BBI, not his apologists. great white snark Apr 2012 #72

He will not reply, he appears to think our misfortunes are for his amusenment Dragonfli Apr 2012 #75

Hi Dragonfli, I guess I did not expect a response. sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #78

There is nothing I can add to what you just said, I am in complete agreement (edited) Dragonfli Apr 2012 #81

I am so, terribly sorry about your wife, Dragonfli. sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #85

She would stand by whatever I decided, but might advise me to consider not embarrassing her Dragonfli Apr 2012 #87

I can relate to that, what you think your wife's reaction might be. sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #107

... SidDithers Apr 2012 #89

Zing! Karmadillo Apr 2012 #92

Yes, Comedy gold! There is growing poverty as well to laugh at when our bad health care Dragonfli Apr 2012 #96

Then it's your "misfortune" to be an American treestar Apr 2012 #143

It was my wife's misfortune to be killed by insurance, and mine to go heavy into debt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #147

Thank you for sharing your painful story, Dragonfli. PA Democrat Apr 2012 #158

Do you people in Canada have fundraisers for cancer treatment? Autumn Mar 2012 #54

He will not answer, unless it is with a laughing smiley in the body and no text, I have tried a Dragonfli Apr 2012 #76

yet from the time period of July 2010 to truedelphi Apr 2012 #127

Zing! Karmadillo Apr 2012 #65

From a guy enjoying already what we are asking for, yeah fuck us, it is only good for his peeps. /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #77

Folks Don't Under How The MLR Caps Profits Apparently indykatie1955 Mar 2012 #48

Yes, I remember that provision. sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #53

It is where most plans are now or lots of people should be going to jail for false reporting. TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #64

Well, as long as they make money, that is the actual goal after all, the sickos are just for profit. Dragonfli Apr 2012 #88

15-20 percent is the max they need bart95 Mar 2012 #58

Well, if medicare can do it at 5% technically that is the max they need /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #84

Thank you Dragonfli - truedelphi Apr 2012 #111

Its the "Uniquely American Solution!" bvar22 Mar 2012 #60

A "solution" in name only. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #61

Exactly hayrow1 Apr 2012 #63

Or a bailout for an industry that had just about driven itself to extinction with fraud Marr Apr 2012 #149

Brother, you are still rational after all these years, I love that about you. Dragonfli Apr 2012 #82

If only we had elected the guy who actually wanted single payer. Karmadillo Apr 2012 #110

We took over all of those things mentioned, but we did not take over the bulk of "donations" Dragonfli Apr 2012 #123

Well put. Marr Apr 2012 #150

keep trying. someday maybe your ship will come in! dionysus Apr 2012 #66

True that, too many people die from insurance cartels Dragonfli Apr 2012 #83

Wow, you are certainly Mr. popular around here, aren't you? Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #74

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #79

TYVM. Thom Hartmann is to blame. n/t Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #91

That is due merely to a (hopefully) temporary cult of personality disorder Dragonfli Apr 2012 #80

Welcome to the new DU! nt woo me with science Apr 2012 #109

Why, TYVM. Glad to be here. n/t Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #112

Divide and conquer, eh? joshcryer Apr 2012 #165

I figured it out a while back. Mimosa Apr 2012 #170

This country is an embarrassment Doctor_J Apr 2012 #90

Here ProSense Apr 2012 #97

Your "then" is more like "now" Doctor_J Apr 2012 #104

And we have trolls that do not even reply, just heckle and laugh, (ironically while receiving UHC) Dragonfli Apr 2012 #99

I am waiting for a fly-by that says, "We still have the best HC in the world" Doctor_J Apr 2012 #101

I was going to give it a month, but you are probably more accurate. /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #102

You had a jury on this post Ruby the Liberal Apr 2012 #115

Thank you, Sincerely, for the transparency. /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #119

Good to see you, Doctor. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #118

Another issue re the new pre-existing condition pool. Vinca Apr 2012 #98

I think with obesity, even a 2 day clinic and seminar could be a life saver. truedelphi Apr 2012 #157

Well we know where the doctors want it to go! Their gready fucking pockets! RB TexLa Apr 2012 #103

BS ... slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #116

Just look at how much they steal from insurance companies and the government RB TexLa Apr 2012 #129

My daughter steals from me every week ... slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #159

RBTex, you're seriously uninformed. Mimosa Apr 2012 #171

Doctors serve an actual purpose.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #120

Without insurance executives, doctors would take every dime you have RB TexLa Apr 2012 #128

Yes, insurance executives are such noted humanitarians.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #130

Compared to doctors stealing premium dollars, tax dollars and patiants dollars anyone is a noted RB TexLa Apr 2012 #131

"anyone is a noted humanitarian" Hope you're not including insurance sharks and big pharma. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #133

Compared to doctors? Yes, they are some of the few people who stop these criminals from taking RB TexLa Apr 2012 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #162

Next time you need medical care I suggest you consult an insurance executive then.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #134

Ask your doctor next time if it's ok for you to file your own insurance claim. RB TexLa Apr 2012 #138

I have neither a doctor nor insurance.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #139

Rather pissed at your ignorance ... slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #160

Yet another solid argument for single payer. hifiguy Apr 2012 #114

^ Exactly!!!^ Yaya!! ^ n/t Mimosa Apr 2012 #172

I'm sorry, but I can't take anything you post seriously. cali Apr 2012 #135

+1... SidDithers Apr 2012 #140

I assume you feel the same way about articles written by progressives that I post. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #144

It's the attitude of this post and others like it. This post is pure Debbie Downer. gulliver Apr 2012 #146

I think you like to stir shit. n/t Lil Missy Apr 2012 #145

You don't know me. LiberalFighter Apr 2012 #153

Interesting Reply. I was responing to BetterBelieveIt. Lil Missy Apr 2012 #154

I've noticed a trend with all of your OPs... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author aspieextrodinare Apr 2012 #163

Are administrative costs subject to exemption under the 2013 kick-in where 80% of premiums collected lonestarnot Apr 2012 #174