General Discussion

groundloop

(13,676 posts)

36. Thanks for a dose of sanity grantcart

Sat Mar 31, 2012, 04:53 PM

Mar 2012

You're absolutely correct, between that damned filibuster and the likes of Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, and others single payer didn't have a chance. So yes, while what we got wasn't all we wanted, it was a step in the right direction. And thankfully President Obama was wise enough to shepherd a bill through congress which at least made many improvements to the current system instead of walking away with nothing. Vaccinations are now covered with no co-pay as is much routine preventative testing. And of course insurance companies can't discriminate against those with pre-existing conditions. My kids will now have insurance while they're in college without it costing extra. And on and on. As you point out, the all-or-nothing mentality would have resulted in none of these improvements.

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Under "Obamacare" 27% to 32% of insurance premiums will go for profits and administrative costs ... [View all] Better Believe It Mar 2012 OP

Compared to an UNLIMITED percent prior to Obamacare. pnwmom Mar 2012 #1

Exactly. cbayer Mar 2012 #2

And what was the average % prior to the "Health Insurance Industry and Big Pharma Protection Act"? Better Believe It Mar 2012 #5

What I said was factual and to the point. Sorry you can't understand it. n/t pnwmom Mar 2012 #8

And sorry we don't just texshelters Mar 2012 #18

What did I say that you take issue with? pnwmom Mar 2012 #28

Some folks are logic challenged n/t elias7 Mar 2012 #57

So logically challenged that I want actual evidence. texshelters Apr 2012 #95

It's just a fact: prior to AHA, there were no limits on profits governing the insurance industry elias7 Apr 2012 #113

It's not what you said texshelters Apr 2012 #94

Did you really need any evidence for the fact that before the Act, pnwmom Apr 2012 #100

I think the point is that there had to be a limit of some sort. freedom fighter jh Mar 2012 #45

According to Morning Star bighart Apr 2012 #137

Your comment doesn't prove that the average medical/loss ratio was lower before the insurance law. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #50

About the same, apparently. HiPointDem Mar 2012 #10

That's not the way I am reading it, according to the GAO (from your link) cbayer Mar 2012 #15

The fact that 70-77% of insurers (and large group is the biggest percent of insurers) HiPointDem Mar 2012 #17

Here's a short read from back then. Remembering what it was like. Maraya1969 Apr 2012 #164

Why bother indeed. For some if it's anything Obama it's bad. great white snark Mar 2012 #6

For too many, nothing about Obama can every be bad and they texshelters Mar 2012 #21

It has already bent the cost curve in the proper direction, and the major provisions pnwmom Mar 2012 #29

And how's that profit curve working out? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #126

ACA does in fact address long term costs. elias7 Mar 2012 #59

Ha ha texshelters Apr 2012 #93

this is Not just about Obama ... slipslidingaway Mar 2012 #47

That's right. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #62

And the great white shark is silent. n/t slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #117

In nature, It is not that a Shark has no teeth (those are quite impressive), but rather, Dragonfli Apr 2012 #121

Well I certainly needed that chuckle ... slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #122

As long as the mechanism is in place, we can turn the screws as we see fit. dawg Mar 2012 #3

Ugh...you are never far behind to post something negative... vaberella Mar 2012 #4

"single payer never had a chance". It certainly didn't with President Obama opposing single payer! Better Believe It Mar 2012 #7

Do you? vaberella Mar 2012 #12

The deal was made behind closed doors with "help" from insurance/big pharma industry lobbyists. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #22

Obama was realistic he knew the votes for single payer julian09 Mar 2012 #49

That is why he had to block any discussion of a not for profit system for All ... slipslidingaway Mar 2012 #52

^ Exactly ^ Mimosa Apr 2012 #166

You are misreading the article, which is pure speculation, not fact. pnwmom Mar 2012 #9

Does the 20% include what hospitals and doctors' practices spend on administration? freedom fighter jh Mar 2012 #46

The latest manufactured outrage widget its the shop room floor ... thud. JoePhilly Mar 2012 #11

You say that like it's a bad thing... Fumesucker Mar 2012 #13

Good one. sad sally Mar 2012 #19

I for one sure understand it is very difficult to truedelphi Mar 2012 #30

... NCarolinawoman Apr 2012 #70

The posts in this subthread seem to assume that insurance companies have only highly paid executives treestar Apr 2012 #142

So your point is? truedelphi Apr 2012 #151

THe claim has to be covered by the insurance treestar Apr 2012 #152

There are no lawyers in the state of California that will sue Kaiser. truedelphi Apr 2012 #155

So what? PNHP will fudge any numbers they have to to make a point, but... TreasonousBastard Mar 2012 #14

Right. You sure can't trust 18,000 progressive doctors who support a single payer system. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #25

Those Commie basterd healing as*&&les, Health care professionals should mind their own business Dragonfli Mar 2012 #32

Unfortunately some people here can only trust those who spend their whole truedelphi Apr 2012 #156

Then please explain how MediCare has managed to do truedelphi Mar 2012 #31

VOTE A STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC BALLOT be happy and sane again! xtraxritical Mar 2012 #35

I've done that for the last 36 years Doctor_J Apr 2012 #124

Oh, yeah, I used to send him money in 2007 and 2008 Mimosa Apr 2012 #167

If your underwriting profit margins were so weak maybe xtraxritical Mar 2012 #34

Somehow they manage it. HiPointDem Mar 2012 #37

It's all good! Well..it's a little better..maybe, not as bad as it could be...or something. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2012 #16

I don't think much of what Better Believe It posts LiberalFighter Mar 2012 #20

Did you trust him when he opposed Bush policies here before they were adopted by blue dogs? Dragonfli Mar 2012 #27

+1001 rudycantfail Apr 2012 #108

+1002 freedom fighter jh Apr 2012 #141

+1000...nt SidDithers Mar 2012 #40

Yeah, why think when you can just question someone's motives. n/t EFerrari Mar 2012 #42

it doesn't require much thinking when the motives are crystal clear.... dionysus Apr 2012 #68

They are crystal clear, BBI consistently fights for the right to actual health care Dragonfli Apr 2012 #86

. dionysus Apr 2012 #105

still don't know much about the issue, as evidenced by your eloquence /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #106

+1,000,000 n/t FSogol Mar 2012 #44

oh shit! dionysus Apr 2012 #67

Perhaps you *should* think about them for awhile. Marr Apr 2012 #148

PNHP has't been thrown under the bus yet? Are the Insurance Cartel defenders getting lazy Dragonfli Mar 2012 #23

Completely ProSense Mar 2012 #24

Du rec. Nt xchrom Mar 2012 #26

Advancing to a 15% MLR (your 80/85 is inverted) is a major improvement over 36% but even at that grantcart Mar 2012 #33

Thanks for a dose of sanity grantcart groundloop Mar 2012 #36

But you are mistaken regarding fake "Republican filibusters" which can easily be ended. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #56

Excellent points, excellent reply emulatorloo Mar 2012 #38

It's a ProSense Mar 2012 #43

With plenty of drum-banging to be had here, your thoughtful post is appreciated. AtomicKitten Mar 2012 #51

Once again: Fake Republican procedural "filibusters" can be ended at anytime as can Senate rules. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #55

Quoting Senate Rules in plain English has had no impact on you so further grantcart Apr 2012 #69

Do you remember a while back when I asked you to please post more often? great white snark Apr 2012 #73

You still haven't presented any evidence that 60 votes are need to pass legislation in the Senate. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #132

Canada did not establish single payer by requiring people to buy private insurance eridani Apr 2012 #71

Those who defend this travesty don't care and are standing in the way of universal health care. Mimosa Apr 2012 #169

It will have to be done state by state eridani Apr 2012 #173

+1000 mac56 Apr 2012 #125

People sicken and die incrementally, too Mimosa Apr 2012 #168

Keep trying...nt SidDithers Mar 2012 #39

We will, until we have what you have, Health Care for all Americans so that thousands do not die sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #41

He was referring to BBI, not his apologists. great white snark Apr 2012 #72

He will not reply, he appears to think our misfortunes are for his amusenment Dragonfli Apr 2012 #75

Hi Dragonfli, I guess I did not expect a response. sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #78

There is nothing I can add to what you just said, I am in complete agreement (edited) Dragonfli Apr 2012 #81

I am so, terribly sorry about your wife, Dragonfli. sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #85

She would stand by whatever I decided, but might advise me to consider not embarrassing her Dragonfli Apr 2012 #87

I can relate to that, what you think your wife's reaction might be. sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #107

... SidDithers Apr 2012 #89

Zing! Karmadillo Apr 2012 #92

Yes, Comedy gold! There is growing poverty as well to laugh at when our bad health care Dragonfli Apr 2012 #96

Then it's your "misfortune" to be an American treestar Apr 2012 #143

It was my wife's misfortune to be killed by insurance, and mine to go heavy into debt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #147

Thank you for sharing your painful story, Dragonfli. PA Democrat Apr 2012 #158

Do you people in Canada have fundraisers for cancer treatment? Autumn Mar 2012 #54

He will not answer, unless it is with a laughing smiley in the body and no text, I have tried a Dragonfli Apr 2012 #76

yet from the time period of July 2010 to truedelphi Apr 2012 #127

Zing! Karmadillo Apr 2012 #65

From a guy enjoying already what we are asking for, yeah fuck us, it is only good for his peeps. /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #77

Folks Don't Under How The MLR Caps Profits Apparently indykatie1955 Mar 2012 #48

Yes, I remember that provision. sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #53

It is where most plans are now or lots of people should be going to jail for false reporting. TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #64

Well, as long as they make money, that is the actual goal after all, the sickos are just for profit. Dragonfli Apr 2012 #88

15-20 percent is the max they need bart95 Mar 2012 #58

Well, if medicare can do it at 5% technically that is the max they need /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #84

Thank you Dragonfli - truedelphi Apr 2012 #111

Its the "Uniquely American Solution!" bvar22 Mar 2012 #60

A "solution" in name only. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #61

Exactly hayrow1 Mar 2012 #63

Or a bailout for an industry that had just about driven itself to extinction with fraud Marr Apr 2012 #149

Brother, you are still rational after all these years, I love that about you. Dragonfli Apr 2012 #82

If only we had elected the guy who actually wanted single payer. Karmadillo Apr 2012 #110

We took over all of those things mentioned, but we did not take over the bulk of "donations" Dragonfli Apr 2012 #123

Well put. Marr Apr 2012 #150

keep trying. someday maybe your ship will come in! dionysus Apr 2012 #66

True that, too many people die from insurance cartels Dragonfli Apr 2012 #83

Wow, you are certainly Mr. popular around here, aren't you? Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #74

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #79

TYVM. Thom Hartmann is to blame. n/t Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #91

That is due merely to a (hopefully) temporary cult of personality disorder Dragonfli Apr 2012 #80

Welcome to the new DU! nt woo me with science Apr 2012 #109

Why, TYVM. Glad to be here. n/t Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #112

Divide and conquer, eh? joshcryer Apr 2012 #165

I figured it out a while back. Mimosa Apr 2012 #170

This country is an embarrassment Doctor_J Apr 2012 #90

Here ProSense Apr 2012 #97

Your "then" is more like "now" Doctor_J Apr 2012 #104

And we have trolls that do not even reply, just heckle and laugh, (ironically while receiving UHC) Dragonfli Apr 2012 #99

I am waiting for a fly-by that says, "We still have the best HC in the world" Doctor_J Apr 2012 #101

I was going to give it a month, but you are probably more accurate. /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #102

You had a jury on this post Ruby the Liberal Apr 2012 #115

Thank you, Sincerely, for the transparency. /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #119

Good to see you, Doctor. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #118

Another issue re the new pre-existing condition pool. Vinca Apr 2012 #98

I think with obesity, even a 2 day clinic and seminar could be a life saver. truedelphi Apr 2012 #157

Well we know where the doctors want it to go! Their gready fucking pockets! RB TexLa Apr 2012 #103

BS ... slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #116

Just look at how much they steal from insurance companies and the government RB TexLa Apr 2012 #129

My daughter steals from me every week ... slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #159

RBTex, you're seriously uninformed. Mimosa Apr 2012 #171

Doctors serve an actual purpose.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #120

Without insurance executives, doctors would take every dime you have RB TexLa Apr 2012 #128

Yes, insurance executives are such noted humanitarians.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #130

Compared to doctors stealing premium dollars, tax dollars and patiants dollars anyone is a noted RB TexLa Apr 2012 #131

"anyone is a noted humanitarian" Hope you're not including insurance sharks and big pharma. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #133

Compared to doctors? Yes, they are some of the few people who stop these criminals from taking RB TexLa Apr 2012 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #162

Next time you need medical care I suggest you consult an insurance executive then.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #134

Ask your doctor next time if it's ok for you to file your own insurance claim. RB TexLa Apr 2012 #138

I have neither a doctor nor insurance.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #139

Rather pissed at your ignorance ... slipslidingaway Apr 2012 #160

Yet another solid argument for single payer. hifiguy Apr 2012 #114

^ Exactly!!!^ Yaya!! ^ n/t Mimosa Apr 2012 #172

I'm sorry, but I can't take anything you post seriously. cali Apr 2012 #135

+1... SidDithers Apr 2012 #140

I assume you feel the same way about articles written by progressives that I post. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #144

It's the attitude of this post and others like it. This post is pure Debbie Downer. gulliver Apr 2012 #146

I think you like to stir shit. n/t Lil Missy Apr 2012 #145

You don't know me. LiberalFighter Apr 2012 #153

Interesting Reply. I was responing to BetterBelieveIt. Lil Missy Apr 2012 #154

I've noticed a trend with all of your OPs... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author aspieextrodinare Apr 2012 #163

Are administrative costs subject to exemption under the 2013 kick-in where 80% of premiums collected lonestarnot Apr 2012 #174