General Discussion

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)

141. The nra wants a national data base of the mentally ill

Tue May 27, 2014, 01:34 AM

May 2014

but they fight background checks for all gun sales? Good grief, are we supposed to "turn in"family members who have never demonstrated any violence towards others to satisfy the nra trying to avoid more gun legislation? I have taken care of some folks who should not have access to weapons, yet gun rights groups start foaming at the mouth when you want to include access to weapons in a health assessment. I frankly don't understand any logic behind the statements made by some gun rights advocates, as far as I can tell they want some kind of data base of the mentally ill, yet they don't want law enforcement or healthcare professionals to ask if someone has access to guns, yet they don't want the government to know who owns a gun, yet they want to know if mentally ill people own a gun? Does any of this make sense to anyone? And these open carry folks walking around shopping malls would be the 1st to scream like a stuck pig if a cop asked them what the heck they're up to. How are we going to protect society from dangerous people if we can't find out who is buying guns? The nra and gun groups are not that stupid, they say nonsensical things to divert attention to a group they can scapegoat.
I have worked with mentally ill people for decades and I have a family member who is bipolar, there are a handful of people I've met in that capacity who actually even want a gun. The mentally ill are citizens who also have rights to not be placed on a data base list based on a diagnosis. How could anyone who supports the 2nd amendment agree with Wayne Lapierre when he supports a data base of the mentally ill? I find that terrifying. He didn't clarify people adjudicated by a court where they have their rights protected, he says a database of mentally ill people.
We need more legislation to restrict the sale of guns and we need better mental health care, I don't see how you do one without the other.

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My family is not "shielding" a dangerous person and I will not tolerate those who imply otherwise [View all] Bjorn Against May 2014 OP

I am going to be advocating for you that this not get locked. Jefferson23 May 2014 #1

Why make the Elliot case about guns and NRA? JJChambers May 2014 #3

Because it is about the NRA and their pathetic agenda, thats why. n/t Jefferson23 May 2014 #4

You're wasting an opportunity to address mental health JJChambers May 2014 #7

BULLSHIT. The fucking knife does not change anything. We own the gun culture in our society. Jefferson23 May 2014 #18

Do you think people like Rodgers should be able to legally buy guns? pnwmom May 2014 #123

I know from the responses to the OP there are clueless people here who have no idea what Jefferson23 May 2014 #126

I think people suffering from psychotic illnesses should, at least, pnwmom May 2014 #134

They are but that is not what this OP is about. I may be wrong but I have the impression Jefferson23 May 2014 #135

They are not. Not in situations like this. pnwmom May 2014 #136

Because we know everything about when and how he bought the guns? Jefferson23 May 2014 #145

I believe that poster #7 does believe people like Rodgers Crunchy Frog May 2014 #133

I do not think the mental health issue should be the factor for gun sales. The treatment meds should Sunlei May 2014 #172

why is it one or the other? It's obviously both. There will always be mentally ill. Voice for Peace May 2014 #77

+1000000 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #93

God, yes, exactly what you've said! laundry_queen May 2014 #116

It's all about the NRA and its steadfast insistence that we have kestrel91316 May 2014 #78

Can't repeat it often enough, frankly. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #95

I have a serious question: etherealtruth May 2014 #164

Were you his therapist? Jamastiene May 2014 #157

Yes JJChambers May 2014 #160

He was living independently and good enough at hiding what he was up to elehhhhna May 2014 #38

Why not make this about our violent culture? One does not have to use a specific weapon or have a jwirr May 2014 #55

Because we love our violent culture and do not want to part with it. zeemike May 2014 #63

Then why is the murder rate half of what it was 20 years ago? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #97

Legal abortion and baby boomers getting old n/t eridani May 2014 #142

Also taking the lead out of paint and gasoline. The graphs on that are really striking. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #144

Come to think of it, I have a vague memory of that eridani May 2014 #166

Here's the Mother Jones article with the graphs I was talking about: nomorenomore08 May 2014 #170

I seem to recall something about Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #151

this, exactly. +1T magical thyme May 2014 #65

somebody in another thread suggested the influence of Hunger Games characters on this boy Voice for Peace May 2014 #83

He was already into fascism and had already talked about Jamastiene May 2014 #159

The parents onecaliberal May 2014 #82

Mental illness does not cause violence. phil89 May 2014 #85

Stop being an apologist for the damn IRA! HERVEPA May 2014 #109

Unless you were the guy's therapist, don't make claims about Jamastiene May 2014 #158

After reading your responses to others in your previous OP that you were locked out of... prefunk May 2014 #2

I will not be open to any POV which suggests my family may be shielding a dangerous person Bjorn Against May 2014 #5

*Sigh* prefunk May 2014 #6

+10000000000. nt. polly7 May 2014 #8

I've noticed you seem very defensive JJChambers May 2014 #10

Of course I am defensive, people are attacking my family Bjorn Against May 2014 #11

That's your perception, however flawed it may be JJChambers May 2014 #19

it is what you have posted, to involuntarily commit people with mental illness if they fit a vague uppityperson May 2014 #69

Involuntary commitments are not easy. It must be proven, suspicions don't count. freshwest May 2014 #140

Look, I am the daughter of a man who Skidmore May 2014 #74

+1 000 000 000 kestrel91316 May 2014 #81

Reagan is at fault yeoman6987 May 2014 #176

The post was targeting families like mine. I didn't feel attacked because the post was accurate in blm May 2014 #16

+1 treestar May 2014 #25

How dare you. He is under no obligation to be open to kestrel91316 May 2014 #80

I personally have to work against making rhetorical "you" statements. Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #9

Elliot Rodgers' family DID notify authorities about his tblue37 May 2014 #52

There *are* procedures for involuntary commitment, which his family could have done. moriah May 2014 #90

It's the internet, man LittleBlue May 2014 #12

I can put him on ignore but the attack on my family will still be there for all to see. Bjorn Against May 2014 #15

He doesn't know your family and neither does anyone else here LittleBlue May 2014 #17

It will be apparent to those who understand. Put him on ignore because you will not change his mind uppityperson May 2014 #70

Thank you, Bjorn Against. hunter May 2014 #13

... nomorenomore08 May 2014 #101

I have a schizophrenic sister who HAS BEEN A DANGER to us and others. That post was accurate in blm May 2014 #14

I had a schizophenic brother-in-law, RebelOne May 2014 #56

When she was a danger to us, we figured we'd handle it - when it turned to children and strangers it blm May 2014 #87

One of my aunts was schizophrenic abelenkpe May 2014 #66

Schizophrenia has its degrees. No one is saying everyone is the same. That was never said. blm May 2014 #88

The majority are *not* dangerous, except perhaps to themselves. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #102

I made that post, and it wasn't an attack on you Lee-Lee May 2014 #20

If you delete your posts about my family I will delete my posts about you Bjorn Against May 2014 #22

Once again Lee-Lee May 2014 #26

Your observations are not valid, you had no reason to suggest my family is shielding my brother Bjorn Against May 2014 #29

My observations certainly are valid Lee-Lee May 2014 #36

No your observations are not valid, you know nothing about my family Bjorn Against May 2014 #45

I give up, you can't grasp what I am saying Lee-Lee May 2014 #47

Here is what you said... Bjorn Against May 2014 #49

And I never claimed they were doing it Lee-Lee May 2014 #51

I don't care if you use an "if", you have no business even suggesting my family might do that Bjorn Against May 2014 #53

This whole thread seems to boil down to ... oldhippie May 2014 #94

This is my family we are talking about, don't tell me to give up Bjorn Against May 2014 #96

Carry on ... oldhippie May 2014 #98

Those who promote fear and hatred of the mentally ill make themselves look worse. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #103

You should reconsider your position, it is inaccurate to rely heavily on IF... Jefferson23 May 2014 #153

Cheap shot, once again. n/t Jefferson23 May 2014 #33

I think when simple laymen start using terms like Wash. state Desk Jet May 2014 #58

I know a lot about the laws and how the system works Lee-Lee May 2014 #61

Than you have some knowledge of how the system works. Wash. state Desk Jet May 2014 #64

Thank you! n/t etherealtruth May 2014 #75

+2 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #104

simply using the word "if" ... implies something needs looking into Leme May 2014 #147

lets get real here, by your standard nobody, anywhere can question anything for fear of offending Lee-Lee May 2014 #150

you get real, please Leme May 2014 #167

He didn't question YOUR family any more than he questioned MINE and his post described EXACTLY what blm May 2014 #89

No, he specifically referred to my family. Bjorn Against May 2014 #92

The word IF is a qualifier. Reading it anyway else is your choice. blm May 2014 #99

well, If is an assault word at times Leme May 2014 #148

It can be, but, it wasn't in this case. The poster was far more accurate than people blm May 2014 #155

it doesn not apply to Bjorn or his family Leme May 2014 #168

Move on. Some people 'get' what they want to get and 'don't get' what they don't want to get. blm May 2014 #171

Are you saying Bjorn and his family live in fear ? Leme May 2014 #173

I said no such thing. I've clearly said NOT ALL. You are clearly refusing to comprehend even simple blm May 2014 #175

I agree with you. They have no right to say the things they've said about your brother. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #105

yep Leme May 2014 #149

Are you a trained psychologist/psychiatrist? fried eggs May 2014 #21

No, I am a family member. Why do I need to be a trained psychologist? Bjorn Against May 2014 #23

This is not about you treestar May 2014 #24

Yes I care about other people, including my brother who poses no threat to society. Bjorn Against May 2014 #27

If your brother takes his meds and isnt a threat to society JJChambers May 2014 #30

How many threads have you been talking about mental illness in? Bjorn Against May 2014 #32

You're bringing your family into this JJChambers May 2014 #35

Because I know damn well that some people wrongly view people like him as dangerous Bjorn Against May 2014 #42

And THIS is the place you think you can convince others that you are right? cleanhippie May 2014 #46

I may not be able to convince them, but that doesn't mean they should go unchallenged. Bjorn Against May 2014 #48

What do you hope to accomplish here? cleanhippie May 2014 #72

Because of the implication that mentally ill people *as a group* should be assumed dangerous. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #106

Exactly. Jamastiene May 2014 #161

+1 Union Scribe May 2014 #43

It is certainly about the posters family member, read the response they received. Jefferson23 May 2014 #31

What a horrible thing to say. Shame on you. kestrel91316 May 2014 #84

sorry but schizophrenia ups the potential for violence 15 gazillion percent. alphafemale May 2014 #28

It ups it from 2% incidence to 8% incidence. Do your research. DeadLetterOffice May 2014 #57

Clearly, substance abuse is a large "predictor" across board etherealtruth May 2014 #60

If you truly believe that, you are saying all people with schizophrenia are violent and dangerous to uppityperson May 2014 #71

You're forgetting blunt objects, they're dangerous too. moriah May 2014 #91

Exactly. Jamastiene May 2014 #163

Actually, it's closer to 28 teraparsecsual brazillion. Sheesh. Eleanors38 May 2014 #130

Again with the witch hunt and pulling false statistics out of your asses. Jamastiene May 2014 #162

YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ARE NOT HARBORING A DANGEROUS PERSON etherealtruth May 2014 #34

Yes and those claiming otherwise are poorly informed, unfortunately. n/t Jefferson23 May 2014 #37

Exactly, thanks for understanding Bjorn Against May 2014 #39

Do not let the ignorant or those with an "agenda" get to you etherealtruth May 2014 #41

Exactly. It wouldn't hurt to ban assault rifles though. deafskeptic May 2014 #40

I hate guns period etherealtruth May 2014 #44

I like the way you put that. hunter May 2014 #67

+10000000 Jamastiene May 2014 #165

It's that poster's opinion... Helen Borg May 2014 #50

I know a lot of people out there who are schizophrenic and not only not dangerous but actually DesertDiamond May 2014 #54

Totally off topic and not about your point because I agree with it, but... Neoma May 2014 #79

+10000000 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #107

Forget it Jake, it's the internet. nt TeamPooka May 2014 #59

My dear Bjorn davidthegnome May 2014 #62

I am glad you opted to post your story etherealtruth May 2014 #73

I wonder what this is about. nt arely staircase May 2014 #68

OP made an alert and got denied, so now it begets a new thread. JVS May 2014 #86

My mom was schizophrenic and she was NEVER a danger to anyone kestrel91316 May 2014 #76

We blame easy targets while ignoring those who are truly dangerous. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #108

Is your brother mentally unfit to own firearms? Can your brother legally buy firearms? Taitertots May 2014 #100

My brother has no desire to own firearms whatsoever Bjorn Against May 2014 #110

You didn't answer any of the relevant questions Taitertots May 2014 #111

I should not have to treat my brother as a dangerous person when he is not dangerous Bjorn Against May 2014 #112

He is mentally unfit and you have not taken necessary steps to prevent firearms purchases Taitertots May 2014 #113

Don't attack my family Bjorn Against May 2014 #114

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #115

Take the necessary steps to prevent NRA nut jobs from getting guns Bjorn Against May 2014 #117

He is mentally unfit, he can buy firearms, and you don't prevent it Taitertots May 2014 #118

You don't know jack shit about my family so don't you dare tell me what we have not done Bjorn Against May 2014 #119

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #120

I never said he could buy firearms Bjorn Against May 2014 #121

You complain that people "know JACK SHIT", but even you don't know Taitertots May 2014 #122

I know a hell of a lot more than you do Bjorn Against May 2014 #125

How do you determine who is "mentally unfit"? Pass a psych exam? By IQ? How do you know who uppityperson May 2014 #154

I have a mental illness and I can get a hold of a gun. Neoma May 2014 #124

He's baiting you. Crunchy Frog May 2014 #138

I think you've got a little bit of a projection thing going on. Crunchy Frog May 2014 #137

I'm getting that kind of shit now liberalhistorian May 2014 #127

Exactly, those who advocate incarcaration would sweep up lots of innocent people Bjorn Against May 2014 #128

And the craziest thing is Crunchy Frog May 2014 #139

This is messed up. bravenak May 2014 #129

You are not a jerk bravenak, you have been nothing but supportive Bjorn Against May 2014 #131

It's just gun humpers trying to deflect attention away from their precious toys Crunchy Frog May 2014 #132

The nra wants a national data base of the mentally ill gwheezie May 2014 #141

Great post. LeftOfWest May 2014 #143

Yes, and thank you. n/t Jefferson23 May 2014 #146

You should make your own thread out of that. n/t Crunchy Frog May 2014 #174

Failure to Obey 4Q2u2 May 2014 #152

I haven't even looked to see who said that to you, but Jamastiene May 2014 #156

yeah Leme May 2014 #169