General Discussion

Brigid

(17,621 posts)

107. Michelle Dean is right.

Tue May 27, 2014, 08:21 PM

May 2014

As a woman, I feel I must be on my guard any time I walk out my front door. And most, if not all, women walk around with a mental checklist rolling around in our heads: Where am I? Who is around me? If they are men, are they perhaps watching me a little too closely? What am I wearing? Do I have my keys in my hand? Can I trust that guy I never saw before who just got on the elevator with me? At home, did I remember to lock the doors? It all boils down to one thing: We don't know whether the men around us -- the one we don't know, at least -- can be trusted or not. The constant wariness is, to put it bluntly, a pain in the butt. But either we follow "the rules" of rape prevention or we get blamed if the worst happens. And it breeds resentment.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

266 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Why Is It So Hard For People to Get That Elliott Rodger Hated Women? [View all] PeaceNikki May 2014 OP

I think the argument is more about why than what. nt Xipe Totec May 2014 #1

the why is more than likely meglomania big_dog May 2014 #105

That's one of the assessments Xipe Totec May 2014 #114

The why is more likely related to paranoid schizophrenia, the first symptoms of which pnwmom May 2014 #154

I did not know, but had suspected that about early symptoms. bettyellen May 2014 #248

Added to that (schizophrenia symptoms).... bloom May 2014 #261

and this is why i have monitored my oldest this last year. you are right on, with all those counts. seabeyond May 2014 #262

It's not an easy thing to keep the lines of communication open at a distance. pnwmom May 2014 #264

i was blessed (do not like tho use that word) lucky, .... htat son talks. and talks and talks and seabeyond May 2014 #265

He hated everybody because he was so fucking awesome and NOBODY saw that in him snooper2 May 2014 #2

he was a misogynist, first and foremost. PeaceNikki May 2014 #4

because hating womein is acceptable? noiretextatique May 2014 #8

yes, yes, yes, Borchkins May 2014 #12

No, he was a malignant narcissist, first and foremost. He was definitely a misogynist, but I see winter is coming May 2014 #16

mmm hmmm. PeaceNikki May 2014 #18

Well, that was substantive. winter is coming May 2014 #21

Somehow I don't think you'll get an answer Major Nikon May 2014 #41

Let's keep a tally on the "crazed acts of violence based on gender" you're so concerned about.... bettyellen May 2014 #61

indeed noiretextatique May 2014 #69

well one crazy lady talked about killing the menz 40 years ago, and since then..... bettyellen May 2014 #97

No blow! Geez... deurbano May 2014 #74

I'm so concerned I've started dozens of threads on the subject just in the last few days Major Nikon May 2014 #78

you're so concerned about gender issues, you show up on every single thread to tell women bettyellen May 2014 #96

Sing it, sister. PeaceNikki May 2014 #98

Tra la fucking laaaaa! bettyellen May 2014 #99

Pot/Kettle Major Nikon May 2014 #110

yes, there are about six constantly derailing- we know. we are quite familiar with all of you... bettyellen May 2014 #133

The same options exist for you Major Nikon May 2014 #189

It's so cute - you trying soo hard to hurt my feelings with insults! bettyellen May 2014 #192

That is why the ones who derail these conversations, Jamastiene May 2014 #162

the logical fallacy robots who think evo-psych is real science? bettyellen May 2014 #198

ah. and then that is what discussionist is for them. they can talk about the mean feminist that seabeyond May 2014 #204

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ redqueen May 2014 #239

why, thank you! bettyellen May 2014 #254

LOL ismnotwasm May 2014 #62

Sure, Andy lived Major Nikon May 2014 #103

You know, the only time I ever see mention of this woman or her work thucythucy May 2014 #134

Richard Speck. David Berkowitz. The Boston Strangler. Exactly. bettyellen May 2014 #137

You always say what I mean to say thucythucy May 2014 #139

I was quoting YOU, my friend. Wonderful post- every word of it! bettyellen May 2014 #142

"Pretending the scales are even is a fucking joke." thucythucy May 2014 #145

what is mine is yours, LOL. bettyellen May 2014 #155

Perhaps you just haven't ran across it Major Nikon May 2014 #185

Which web page would that be? thucythucy May 2014 #208

way back when, when we were pulling out all kinds of feminists, from forever to recent, seabeyond May 2014 #219

Thanks for the DU history lesson. thucythucy May 2014 #227

the second. i believe. that was like three years ago. i need to put her back up in hof. seabeyond May 2014 #229

actually, i did not even read majors posts. i was answering cause i was reading you gals. seabeyond May 2014 #230

Thanks again. thucythucy May 2014 #232

me, too. nt seabeyond May 2014 #233

she was trying to get Andy Warhol interested in her writing and angry he wrote her off bettyellen May 2014 #245

If you want me to defend every piece of misogyny ever written you are barking up the wrong tree Major Nikon May 2014 #252

Oh, snap! chervilant May 2014 #214

Misandry apologists? ismnotwasm May 2014 #251

If you want to contradict me, then do so Major Nikon May 2014 #253

If his misogyny hadn't existed, he would not have done the mass shootings. Jamastiene May 2014 #148

I haven't claimed that misogyny had no role in his actions. Obviously, it did. winter is coming May 2014 #175

No one has officially said what mental illness he may or may not have had. Jamastiene May 2014 #194

I'm guessing "personality disorder" as opposed to a mental illness like schizophrenia. winter is coming May 2014 #197

I do too. Jamastiene May 2014 #206

He was most likely a paranoid schizophrenic, pnwmom May 2014 #161

That has not been reported anywhere. PeaceNikki May 2014 #163

What HAS been reported is that he was never diagnosed with autism, pnwmom May 2014 #165

Whatever mental illness he may have had, it does not make his hateful rhetoric meaningless. PeaceNikki May 2014 #166

It's no more silly for me than for anyone else to accuse him of just being evil. pnwmom May 2014 #174

I have seen it claimed elsewhere on DU that he did *not* suffer from auditory hallucinations. winter is coming May 2014 #182

No one here can claim they know he did NOT. It hasn't been proven that he did, either. pnwmom May 2014 #242

Agreed. He was fueld by hatred... one_voice May 2014 #213

In the strict definition of the term, he was indeed a Misogynist wercal May 2014 #31

definition of misogyny. dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. seabeyond May 2014 #33

OK wercal May 2014 #46

i always thought it ... hatred toward women. a lot of dictionaries have that definition. seabeyond May 2014 #47

Excellent post. Thanks. n/t Laelth May 2014 #76

That's it. He was however taught to hate. His susceptibility is at question. Was he mentally weak? The Wielding Truth May 2014 #247

True. He was a major jerk, for one thing. Louisiana1976 May 2014 #5

A misogynistic jerk. You can say it. It's OK to say it. PeaceNikki May 2014 #10

That's my take as well malaise May 2014 #34

Did he say everybody was the source of all unfairness and should be exterminated? redqueen May 2014 #43

I don't know, I've seen people dance around that all day long in OPs. Rex May 2014 #3

It's frickin' weird. Squinch May 2014 #113

K&R /nt myrna minx May 2014 #6

Because then they may need to concede that misogyny is a problem, which geek tragedy May 2014 #7

Bingo! johnp3907 May 2014 #14

Correct. Whisp May 2014 #17

Yep, that's exactly it. n/t TDale313 May 2014 #20

Around here and around the world. nt redqueen May 2014 #25

Well I know misogngy is a problem malaise May 2014 #36

most misogynists are not psychologically well-adjusted people geek tragedy May 2014 #54

Please read the entire piece I linked in the OP. It's pretty powerful. PeaceNikki May 2014 #56

+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #93

It's pretty clear to me Keefer May 2014 #9

Yes, that was also fueled by his misogyny. PeaceNikki May 2014 #11

True, he killed his roommates to get them out of the way so he could torture women. Rex May 2014 #26

Because anything done to women must be explained away. Because... freshwest May 2014 #13

Its pretty clear he had a deranged hatred of women etherealtruth May 2014 #15

It is women's duty to 'put out' for creeps like that Whisp May 2014 #19

Well, yeah isn't that why women are on earth ... etherealtruth May 2014 #22

I read in his manifesto SummerSnow May 2014 #38

I am not sure there is a word etherealtruth May 2014 #39

And yet still some here argue that he didn't hate women in particular. redqueen May 2014 #48

I don't see anyone reasonably arguing that he wasn't misogynistic; it would take an extreme... Shandris May 2014 #23

Reading a lot of the tweets about it this weekend... Blue_Adept May 2014 #28

I don't think it's that all women fear all men all the time. That *would* be over the top. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #71

We can split hairs all we want, but I don't see how one can reasonably deny we have a problem. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #65

Oh, theres no denying there's a problem! I sure wouldn't say that at all. Shandris May 2014 #127

We all have good and bad in us. And nearly all of us have at least the potential for good deeds - nomorenomore08 May 2014 #190

Rodgers once saved his younger half brother from drowning. Jamastiene May 2014 #200

Even the worst people on Earth can still have some capacity for good. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #203

That is true. n/t Jamastiene May 2014 #240

They don't want to see the misogyny that permeates our society. hunter May 2014 #24

oh strawmen how I love thee Egnever May 2014 #27

I have noticed ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #59

And I have noticed Egnever May 2014 #80

WTF are you talking about? PeaceNikki May 2014 #84

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #89

Once again a strawman Egnever May 2014 #95

Frankly ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #129

How is the OP or the article linked to a "straw man" argument? nt thucythucy May 2014 #115

People on DU like to use that every time they disagree with something. PeaceNikki May 2014 #116

Weird indeed. thucythucy May 2014 #117

he also made some weird accusation that I called him a "deviant" or something. PeaceNikki May 2014 #118

I saw that as well. thucythucy May 2014 #123

But isn't ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #173

for sure. PeaceNikki May 2014 #180

Which only proves they haven't a clear understanding... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #183

Exactly. PeaceNikki May 2014 #184

Who has a problem admitting this? The issue is not his hatred for women... Demo_Chris May 2014 #29

who else has encompassed PeaceNikki May 2014 #35

it appears by this very post, you have a problem admitting this. nt seabeyond May 2014 #37

No, he's just pointing out a difference of opinion MannyGoldstein May 2014 #44

no. thru out the post he took it away from misogyny and excuse in every way.... and at no seabeyond May 2014 #50

"Who has a problem admitting this?" MannyGoldstein May 2014 #52

yes. he clearly says, who has a problem admitting. and then shows us what a challenge it is for him seabeyond May 2014 #55

I see nothing indicating it's challenge for him to admit Rodgers hated women MannyGoldstein May 2014 #57

and i see a whole post of his that answers his first question. seabeyond May 2014 #64

There is some evidence for this, Manny. Maedhros May 2014 #102

I don't disagree. Some of those folks spew evil stuff MannyGoldstein May 2014 #106

Sorry to see you splitting hairs. GeorgeGist May 2014 #111

It's not splitting hairs. MannyGoldstein May 2014 #124

Acknowledged. Maedhros May 2014 #126

The disagreement is over whether misogynism played a part in these deaths, and many others.... bettyellen May 2014 #152

"Why Is It So Hard For People to Get That Elliott Rodger Hated Women?" MannyGoldstein May 2014 #168

There's more to the OP and the article linked in it than the title, also. PeaceNikki May 2014 #172

this thread is about the refusal (of some) to put this in a cultural context, instead of pretending bettyellen May 2014 #178

Not at all, the psycho hated women. He hated them (and everyone else) so much... Demo_Chris May 2014 #195

ya. see. it is clear what you did there. seabeyond May 2014 #199

He was in communication with and motivated by an organized misogynist movement. LeftyMom May 2014 #40

man hating bitches, on this one. not uppity. man hating. seabeyond May 2014 #51

+1 Starry Messenger May 2014 #81

+2 TDale313 May 2014 #92

+1 RetroLounge May 2014 #109

He wasn't part of any organized movement LTR May 2014 #236

Racists are fuckups too. Nobody said he was part of a well-run movement full of smart people. LeftyMom May 2014 #241

So you think in terms of "who is the enemy"? LTR May 2014 #243

People who loathe women are a threat to my physical well-being. LeftyMom May 2014 #244

"...encompass as many men as possible in the circle of blame." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #72

it's fucking twisted- to even approach this subject with "concerns" about man hating.... bettyellen May 2014 #169

Anything to exempt oneself from any responsibility to the world whatsoever, right? How libertarian. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #191

Half the derailers have parroted MRA, evo-psych bullshit again and agan- so they are now invested bettyellen May 2014 #193

And if they want to hang on to bizarre or stupid beliefs, then whatever, we can't stop them. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #196

well. there in lies the problems. until the shit is spouted off to some other pathetic young man seabeyond May 2014 #207

I have no illusions about being able, individually, to change anyone's mind. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #209

ha. that is kinda funny cause brave just said something that was a eye opener for me seabeyond May 2014 #215

I absolutely agree. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #220

so, you'd rather not talk about racial motivations of Nazis too? But its fine to discuss how you bettyellen May 2014 #121

Why are the horrific crimes/acts of ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #179

I cannot answer without knowing what the PoC is. nt Demo_Chris May 2014 #202

People of Color. bravenak May 2014 #205

point. ouch. see. lesson learned. not that i have said it, but... i have not connected those dots seabeyond May 2014 #211

The l words scare some people. bravenak May 2014 #216

it is an EXCELLENT question. yes do. keep asking. nt seabeyond May 2014 #222

Okay, but first your original question... Demo_Chris May 2014 #228

So racism. bravenak May 2014 #231

they might have to acknowledge, there is indeed, a problem. and they fight hard to deny that seabeyond May 2014 #30

or they don't care Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #218

well. didnt you jsut put me and all women in our place. you da man. lookin' like all that. seabeyond May 2014 #223

Yeah, that's it. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #224

cool. seabeyond May 2014 #226

Maybe they need small words and diagrams... Starry Messenger May 2014 #32

Right, there were a few specific men he wanted to kill, but he wanted ALL women dead. PeaceNikki May 2014 #66

I agree. When a man tells you who he is, believe him. WinkyDink May 2014 #42

Truer words were never spoken n/t shanti May 2014 #147

Yes he hated women. He hated everyone. alphafemale May 2014 #45

He certainly hated women but his hate wasn't relegated solely to women cali May 2014 #49

A misogynistic psychopath/sociopath. PeaceNikki May 2014 #53

There were a very few specific males he wanted dead. But he wanted ALL women dead. PeaceNikki May 2014 #67

K & R SunSeeker May 2014 #58

I don't think anybody disagrees that he was a misogynist Demobrat May 2014 #60

Did you read the whole article linked in the OP? PeaceNikki May 2014 #63

Yes I did. Demobrat May 2014 #156

weird. I don't recall saying it was. or where the article did, either. PeaceNikki May 2014 #158

Yes, that seems clear treestar May 2014 #68

He hated himself more than anyone LTR May 2014 #70

Spot on. n/t Laelth May 2014 #87

So, he didn't hate women enough for you? Okay.... bettyellen May 2014 #101

Don't put words in peoples' mouths LTR May 2014 #217

then don't minimize his hatred of women. it was the focus of his writings. bettyellen May 2014 #235

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #237

The fact we need to admit women are viewed as objects proves there's a problem flashbang May 2014 #73

great post. thank you so much for your input. PeaceNikki May 2014 #75

If he thought women were chattels, why didn't he go to the store and buy one? Laelth May 2014 #91

he had the bizarre idea that every woman he saw was fucking the man standing next to her.... bettyellen May 2014 #160

I agree that he had warped ideas. Laelth May 2014 #256

he did not go buy one cause he is a coward. he was afraid of sex. he was afraid of women. seabeyond May 2014 #258

Many men are arfraid of women, whether they admit it or not. Laelth May 2014 #260

he seemed to envy and want whatever he saw other people had or wanted -nothing seemed to be original bettyellen May 2014 #263

Excellent post. redqueen May 2014 #246

He was a "nice guy" who bought into the girls only like jerks myth TexasBushwhacker May 2014 #77

Except he wasn't a "nice guy" or a nice guy ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2014 #88

Yes, I get the impression that he really had no friends, male or female n/t TexasBushwhacker May 2014 #108

He wasn't a nice guy LTR May 2014 #221

That guy didn't like anybody IkeRepublican May 2014 #79

There were a very few specific males he wanted dead. But he wanted ALL women dead. PeaceNikki May 2014 #82

He was an un-medicated paranoid schizophrenic at the height of the disease ecstatic May 2014 #83

Whatever mental illness he may have had, it does not make his hateful rhetoric meaningless. PeaceNikki May 2014 #90

it wasn't meaningless, but it wasn't the direct cause of his killing spree. ecstatic May 2014 #131

nope H2O Man May 2014 #125

KnR Hekate May 2014 #85

Of course Roger secondvariety May 2014 #86

Rodger, Elliot hated sexually active men as well JJChambers May 2014 #94

yet planned mainly to massacre women-who were lucky enough not to trust strange men and survived! bettyellen May 2014 #100

He slaughtered twice as many men than women JJChambers May 2014 #128

his plan was to mass murder a whole sorority of women. not interested in facts though, eh? bettyellen May 2014 #130

I am not disputing the fact that he hated women JJChambers May 2014 #141

and he planned to murder more women? Because he did. bettyellen May 2014 #144

Yes, he planned to murder a sorority of women JJChambers May 2014 #150

hated women because he disagreed they should have any sexual autonomy. bettyellen May 2014 #153

He said, "There is no creature more evil and depraved than the human female." redqueen May 2014 #249

Indeed. He hated women. JJChambers May 2014 #250

Rodgers sounded just like some others we know who hate women... Triana May 2014 #104

Michelle Dean is right. Brigid May 2014 #107

I don't know if most men can truly conceptualize what this is like. PeaceNikki May 2014 #112

It is self-evident. Who is disputing this? Throd May 2014 #119

Lots of people. Read the article linked in OP. PeaceNikki May 2014 #120

same half dozen dudes here- plus a few too many thousand like minded women haters on the net. bettyellen May 2014 #135

the usual MRA suspects who throw an absolute hissy fit any time misogyny is discussed. geek tragedy May 2014 #138

And the trench coat mafia hated cool kids so what? Gun are the issue guns are what killed Exultant Democracy May 2014 #122

funny comment from one of the men who try to silence critiques of misogyny around here. geek tragedy May 2014 #132

Gravedancing is gravdancing and it is always revolting. Jerry Falwell would approve. Exultant Democracy May 2014 #164

calling out misogyny is revolting to people who don't want it discussed, ever, here. geek tragedy May 2014 #167

Well said. PeaceNikki May 2014 #170

Well said. H2O Man May 2014 #171

I'll add another "Well said." johnp3907 May 2014 #201

thank you geek. you are the best. nt seabeyond May 2014 #238

Stealing some of this because it's --> Beautifully put! X 1000000 bettyellen May 2014 #255

oh SNAP. you got his number, LOL. bettyellen May 2014 #234

I would say any guy who dreamed of starting his own form of fascist government, Jamastiene May 2014 #136

Yes, he absolutely did. H2O Man May 2014 #140

he was a mentally ill misogynist, end of story steve2470 May 2014 #143

I'd venture to guess most, if not all, misogynists are mentally ill. It's not normal. PeaceNikki May 2014 #146

I would agree about the severe ones steve2470 May 2014 #151

I am strongly of the opinion that very few men proportional to society are misogynists. PeaceNikki May 2014 #157

"Psychosis" is a H2O Man May 2014 #159

yes I understand all that steve2470 May 2014 #176

The manifesto all H2O Man May 2014 #186

He definitely hated women with a fervor. herding cats May 2014 #149

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #177

mmm hmmm. PeaceNikki May 2014 #181

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #188

Over this self-absorbed murderer. I'm open to discussions about the victims. maced666 May 2014 #187

i think because these people sympathize with the things he was saying JI7 May 2014 #210

Yes, I read here how it's an example of "male suffering". PeaceNikki May 2014 #212

cnn, msnbc, fox, local papers. read any comment section on the net and you hear massive amounts of seabeyond May 2014 #225

Denial CFLDem May 2014 #257

A lot to digest in all of his writings and videos, but no question misogyny was his defining stevenleser May 2014 #259

Indeed flashbang May 2014 #266