General Discussion

defacto7

(14,162 posts)

87. The OP is excellent and has a lot of important information

Wed May 28, 2014, 02:15 AM

May 2014

concerning women's need to be heard and that there is a time for men to listen and listen well.

But several of the comments by posters supposedly representing women's need to be heard are giving me the impression that they do not in fact represent women's issues at all. The stark ad hom rebuttals are both irrational and common fallacy to the hilt. I have always listened, supported, rallied for the rights of women and will continue to do so. But I will not listen to those false representatives of women's issues on this site from this point on because that cause is something YOU do not understand. You undermine human trust by supporting false positions that so many real supporters of women's rights, needs, pain, and fears have to make up for and I am sick and tired of cleaning up the mess.

You either support humanity, all of it... period.... and the responsibilities that come with it, or you support only yourself, for yourself and now by yourself.

Thank you sheshe2 for the excellent article. I'm sorry it's been seriously misused.

Now on to ignore.

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#NOTALLMEN: How Not to Derail Discussions of Women's Issues [View all] sheshe2 May 2014 OP

There are most definitely men that have a major problem in relating to women as an equal human being Uncle Joe May 2014 #1

Since I can't say what I really need to say here, I'll just say this. William769 May 2014 #2

I thank you William! sheshe2 May 2014 #3

I find this depressing . . . MrModerate May 2014 #4

"Is this a desirable result? People turning off the concern? I'd think not." sheshe2 May 2014 #7

And I'm happy to see that acknowledgment . . . MrModerate May 2014 #10

Good point, sheshe2. calimary May 2014 #56

Good to see you hear calimary. sheshe2 May 2014 #63

Calimary!!! ProfessorGAC May 2014 #165

Oh I'm still loud-mouthing it around, I'm afraid... calimary May 2014 #172

Well G'luck To You and Yours ProfessorGAC May 2014 #191

well, do you actually read and try to learn something from those geek tragedy May 2014 #15

I feel that the author is saying listen now. Listen to the women roguevalley May 2014 #31

Point taken. n/t MrModerate May 2014 #33

and ask your friends here and in RL to listen too. To pay a bit of attention and bettyellen May 2014 #81

Actually we are being KILLED! sheshe2 May 2014 #70

I wish that graphic that shows the number of dead was in an OP Jamastiene May 2014 #75

Ha! sheshe2 May 2014 #80

Thank you. Jamastiene May 2014 #88

... sheshe2 May 2014 #90

In find this depressing too! sheshe2 May 2014 #86

In answer to your question . . . MrModerate May 2014 #105

I know it has been said ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #176

"Those most immediate to the discussion . . ." MrModerate May 2014 #195

Well from one man to another ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #207

I think you're probably right. MrModerate May 2014 #215

That is probably for the best ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #216

Wise words. Still makes me sad. MrModerate May 2014 #217

Why do women need to say all men if they know it isn't true? Thor_MN May 2014 #5

Where are women saying that it is all men? nt sheshe2 May 2014 #8

"Not all men" didn't just appear out of nowhere. Thor_MN May 2014 #12

"not all men" arose from men who want to derail the subject and are more interested in portraying geek tragedy May 2014 #16

You really didn't answer my question. Thor_MN May 2014 #20

why are you unable to ask a questions that aren't loaded and accusatory? geek tragedy May 2014 #23

I question hypocrisy where ever I see it. Thor_MN May 2014 #24

No, you are accusing and derailing. geek tragedy May 2014 #27

Please cite my whining. I asked a legitimate question and you are avoiding it like the plague. Thor_MN May 2014 #40

Your accusation of people here supporting stereotyping is blatantly bad faith and designed geek tragedy May 2014 #45

Again, you can't answer a simple question. Thor_MN May 2014 #55

again, you're fabricating claims that people are going around saying "all men are rapists/murderers/ geek tragedy May 2014 #60

Sorry, I've been through this plenty tonight and you are wrong. Thor_MN May 2014 #69

I disagree that it is acceptable or accurate. geek tragedy May 2014 #74

I find hypocrisy distasteful. Thor_MN May 2014 #85

You are choosing a very peculiar semantic quibble geek tragedy May 2014 #89

Where do you see outrage? I'm asking a question which people appear fearful to answer. Thor_MN May 2014 #93

Not all men derails the conversation - deliberately intaglio May 2014 #112

Did you read the OP? It is not about San Diego. Thor_MN May 2014 #120

#YesAllWomen is not about San Diego, it is about what women experience every day intaglio May 2014 #128

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #208

Whining weasel words intaglio May 2014 #212

There are none so blind as those who knee jerk attack. Thor_MN May 2014 #218

You have been through nothing intaglio May 2014 #111

Been through nothing... I don't know what is supposed to mean. Thor_MN May 2014 #121

Yes and #NotAllMen is a whiny "not my fault" excuse intaglio May 2014 #129

Again, I have never used a hashtag in this post Thor_MN May 2014 #139

Hard luck I did intaglio May 2014 #140

Projection. Thor_MN May 2014 #142

No I am telling you that you personally, along with others like you intaglio May 2014 #150

No, you are projecting your desire to argue with someone who is doing that Thor_MN May 2014 #152

Ah, so it's all meta and has no bearing upon actual misogyny intaglio May 2014 #173

In a word, Bullshit. You obviously have not read the OP, or are incapable of comprehension. Thor_MN May 2014 #180

You are complicit in misogyny as every post you have made on the subject shows intaglio May 2014 #143

Inserting your own hates and prejudices is telling. Thor_MN May 2014 #146

this is beyond ridiculous. derailing to the point of saying, anywhere in the universe any time, seabeyond May 2014 #149

That is the assertion you are making. Thor_MN May 2014 #156

And you accuse me of projection? intaglio May 2014 #154

intaglio. i am saying ... seabeyond May 2014 #159

Maybe because saying "men" with no qualifiers makes it harder for the rest of us to just assume nomorenomore08 May 2014 #68

True, and they ALWAYS think they are being so fucking original too, Raksha May 2014 #194

you really need to read before you argue. no. not all men, was not a counter to ANYONE saying ALL seabeyond May 2014 #32

not over nothing, this is like Republicans who complain about 'the race card' being played geek tragedy May 2014 #39

anyway geek. the article was awesome. as i was reading, i was thinking about men like you. seabeyond May 2014 #46

it took the willingness to listen. some men just don't feel that they geek tragedy May 2014 #48

did something click. did something make you say... oh fuck. i really was not seeing. seabeyond May 2014 #53

marriage has improved my listening skills and 'get it' capabilities geek tragedy May 2014 #58

i understand that. thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. i do appreciate it. nt seabeyond May 2014 #64

That is the first time I've seen a man own this and Skidmore May 2014 #109

...exactly..it moves the conversation, if there is one, prairierose May 2014 #168

Yes, and it did what was intended. It wore me out as it was offtopic and never ended. freshwest May 2014 #201

Absolutes will destroy your arguments every time. Thor_MN May 2014 #44

"many imply 'all men'" geek tragedy May 2014 #47

Not not trying to divide anyone. Thor_MN May 2014 #59

If there were to be a post that said "all men" then it would invite strict scrutiny and should geek tragedy May 2014 #65

all men watch porn and if your man says he doesnt he is lying. yup. nt seabeyond May 2014 #67

If there were to be a post that says "Allman," would that be appropriate? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #73

you are making it up. you said that 'notallmen" was started to counter "allmen". there was no seabeyond May 2014 #51

Same question to you. Thor_MN May 2014 #61

no. i addressed your post. what you said. that "notallmen" was countering an "allmen". seabeyond May 2014 #71

Sorry lost track in all the people kicking me around. Thor_MN May 2014 #78

i would bet i have read a zillion more on all this than you. i have seen no all men rape ... ever seabeyond May 2014 #82

So you are unable to even contemplate a hypothetical question. Thor_MN May 2014 #92

unable? of course i am ... able. seabeyond May 2014 #95

Able, but unwilling. Thor_MN May 2014 #97

no. as in, that was not the issue and had nothing to do with what i was addressing with your post. seabeyond May 2014 #100

I read the article and specifically chose this post to ask my question. Thor_MN May 2014 #103

i addressed your false statement. you are demanding that i answer your questions? no. that is not seabeyond May 2014 #104

Games. Thor_MN May 2014 #106

I think you demonstrated the OP very nicely noiretextatique May 2014 #107

Wow, feel free to insert your prejudices... Thor_MN May 2014 #122

poor you noiretextatique May 2014 #169

Please cite where I have claimed victimhood. Thor_MN May 2014 #181

no...it is about your fragile ego noiretextatique May 2014 #211

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #213

No, you tried to deflect the conversation in your first post intaglio May 2014 #114

Again what conversation? Thor_MN May 2014 #123

The conversation you, repeatedly, try to derail intaglio May 2014 #131

Can you please cite where I have ever used a hashtag? Thor_MN May 2014 #135

Another derail. intaglio May 2014 #137

Your misreading of my words is not a argument Thor_MN May 2014 #144

Oh, it's all about you it it and not the whining? intaglio May 2014 #148

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #209

Geez dude, you sound like a broken record!! alittlelark May 2014 #200

Geez honey, the responses are even more like a broken record. Thor_MN May 2014 #204

Citations of threads making your claimed implications or you are talking out of your cloaca intaglio May 2014 #113

Where did you pull that out of? Thor_MN May 2014 #125

You are now attempting to claim that you meant the entire internet intaglio May 2014 #134

They are present on DU threads, but I never limited my scope. Thor_MN May 2014 #136

If they are present cite them intaglio May 2014 #138

I have, but you are only reading what you want to read. Thor_MN May 2014 #141

You have provided evidence you are complicit in misogyny intaglio May 2014 #145

Please cite evidence, rather than what you are making up in your mind. Thor_MN May 2014 #151

The evidence is in your posts intaglio May 2014 #155

Specific examples please, and don't go on with your wild accusation that I support misogyny Thor_MN May 2014 #157

Read your own posts intaglio May 2014 #175

Good god, it is bigotry to even QUESTION if stereotyping is ever acceptable? Thor_MN May 2014 #177

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #210

Well... sheshe2 May 2014 #41

+1. n/t scruboak May 2014 #161

Thank you, scruboak. sheshe2 May 2014 #183

NOT a response to this tragedy and not in response to articles saying all men intaglio May 2014 #110

You say it "didn't just appear out of nowhere" scruboak May 2014 #164

Incorrect. I have given several examples, but the knee jerk reactions in this post are blind to them Thor_MN May 2014 #182

You are the only one in this thread saying "all men" passiveporcupine May 2014 #9

I was hoping to have a discussion, but I see that you are antagonistic. Thor_MN May 2014 #11

What you offered was textbook derailing and trolling, complete with passive aggressive "why you so geek tragedy May 2014 #18

you are suggesting so many are saying, all men commit mass murder? intellectually, common damn sense seabeyond May 2014 #30

#NotOneIota LOL bettyellen May 2014 #84

me too. love it. lol. nt seabeyond May 2014 #91

No you did not come here for a discussion. sheshe2 May 2014 #79

Mission Accomplished, thread destoyed. Sorry, She she. n/t freshwest May 2014 #202

Yes.... sheshe2 May 2014 #205

Citations of the threads saying all men intaglio May 2014 #115

Thank you, passiveporcupine. sheshe2 May 2014 #13

it's textbook because you know that they would pull this stunt geek tragedy May 2014 #22

Exactly The Roux Comes First May 2014 #197

The very title of the thread says #NOTALLMEN Jamastiene May 2014 #72

On the contrary, Thor_MN May 2014 #101

You are the one making claims without citation intaglio May 2014 #116

There never, ever, has been a single post on the entire internet that implies all men are xxxxx Thor_MN May 2014 #119

You cited DU specifically intaglio May 2014 #126

Really? Please cite where I did that. I have not used the letters D and U consecutively, Thor_MN May 2014 #130

OK, implied, now cite the DU threads that support your contention n/t intaglio May 2014 #133

You admit that you made that up. Possible that you are making other things up? Thor_MN May 2014 #158

Nope, but you are still denying reality intaglio May 2014 #174

Who has said "White Knight" other than you and what the hell does that even mean? Thor_MN May 2014 #178

Maybe you're not aware catrose May 2014 #147

No, what I have found here is the same exact hate and hypocrisy that you speak of. Thor_MN May 2014 #185

No, of Course Not The Roux Comes First May 2014 #199

Thank you. Thor_MN May 2014 #203

k&r Starry Messenger May 2014 #6

May I also suggest that it's a good idea to avoid saying things that make people defensive. Nye Bevan May 2014 #14

textbook. some feminist said something you didn't like months ago, so that's geek tragedy May 2014 #21

I simply don't think that statements such as "all men benefit from rape" Nye Bevan May 2014 #29

and you had that discussion MONTHS ago, yet here you are beating that dead horse,for obvious reasons geek tragedy May 2014 #35

"All men benefit from rape" was simply the first example that sprang to mind, Nye Bevan May 2014 #42

Well cite some more examples intaglio May 2014 #117

I don't either think that of all men but too many men don't seem to really hear us when roguevalley May 2014 #36

As a husband, and as a father of daughters, that stuff positively terrifies me. Nye Bevan May 2014 #43

I know they would. I know you would. But that is the life of women. roguevalley May 2014 #49

it was a feminists academic exercise in exploration from different angle and perspective seabeyond May 2014 #62

Personally, I tend to think telling the plain truth is more important. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #76

Here's my simple litmus test: Shandris May 2014 #17

Sigh. This is example #3 of trying to derail geek tragedy May 2014 #25

Wait. Let me get this straight. I'm...DERAILING...a thread with an OP about why... Shandris May 2014 #34

no, you blatantly distorted the OP, but thanks for playing, go ahead and play the victim, it's geek tragedy May 2014 #37

I'm playing the victim? Erm...alright. I'm not sure how I'm the victim, given that... Shandris May 2014 #50

well, as a man, I can say that those who play the "not all men" game are not serving my interests geek tragedy May 2014 #54

I aleady told you that I wasn't going to confront you... Shandris May 2014 #77

Had you not doubled down on the false and misleading geek tragedy May 2014 #83

"I'm -not- certain all my sisters have my best (or even -any-) of my best interests at heart." sheshe2 May 2014 #102

did they read the OP? noiretextatique May 2014 #108

Some people just don't know their place. AngryAmish May 2014 #127

apparently not noiretextatique May 2014 #170

Started reading#YesAllWomen b/c I've got a daughter,now I see I should be reading b/c I've got 2 son seabeyond May 2014 #19

I thought of you sea, sheshe2 May 2014 #28

well. seeing how i am all into behavior, sociology, psychology and the like, i am having a blast. seabeyond May 2014 #38

You are definitely up to the challenge, sea~ nt sheshe2 May 2014 #187

+1. n/t scruboak May 2014 #162

Post an answer that 100% agrees with the OP, and Phlem May 2014 #26

And you are saying what Phlem? nt sheshe2 May 2014 #52

The new hashtag starting is #YesAllPeople davidn3600 May 2014 #57

and that hashtag is another attempt to derail the conversation intaglio May 2014 #118

try #HeadInThe Sand bettyellen May 2014 #171

+1! sheshe2 May 2014 #186

Thanks for the link. wickerwoman May 2014 #66

The OP is excellent and has a lot of important information defacto7 May 2014 #87

Thank you for this.... bettyellen May 2014 #94

Thanks bettyellen. sheshe2 May 2014 #188

I will be so glad when the day arrives that these threads are no longer needed.... steve2470 May 2014 #96

"Men, feminists are our allies ! " ahhhhh. seabeyond May 2014 #98

glad I could make you smile steve2470 May 2014 #99

So basically this thread turned into a textbook example of the behavior. MadrasT May 2014 #124

K&R nt stevenleser May 2014 #132

"Why is it not helpful to say �not all men are like that�?" baldguy May 2014 #153

see here, went over like a lead balloon, sorry to say. boston bean May 2014 #160

cartoons made about it. blogs... people all over the net talking about "notallmen". men and seabeyond May 2014 #163

k and r, and sighing for the expected backlash. niyad May 2014 #166

C'est la vie, niyad. sheshe2 May 2014 #192

Teach your sons smallcat88 May 2014 #167

K & R SunSeeker May 2014 #179

red pillers must be short... they keep saying #no tall men paulkienitz May 2014 #184

Yes, yes, yes me b zola May 2014 #189

Thanks, sheshe2. The whole column, especially the tweets, is/are great. spooky3 May 2014 #190

K & R Raksha May 2014 #193

And yet wouldn't a lot of "This man is not like that" DirkGently May 2014 #196

Read the article. nt sheshe2 May 2014 #198

The answers are in the article, which is awesome.... bettyellen May 2014 #214

Kicking... sheshe2 May 2014 #206