General Discussion

arthritisR_US

(7,797 posts)

224. Gathering intelligence on other countries is supposed to be the purview

Thu May 29, 2014, 12:26 PM

May 2014

of the NSA and if Snowden released documents with respect to this then he's a traitor, IMO. Thing is, I don't know just what it is that he downloaded and took with him to Hong Kong.

With respect to domestic spying, do these documents indicate that the NSA isn't just collecting numbers and times but recording and saving the conversations? If it came out that this was the case then we would be thanking Snowden for alerting us and giving us a voice in the debate.

There is so much I don't know and the most I get is little dribbles here and there from Greenwald and now this interview with Williams. I am conflicted when it comes to Snowden, I understand his fear given what happened to Drake et al. Tons of spin going on from the government side and from the Greenwald side.

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The vast majority of DU supports Snowden's and Greenwald's actions [View all] MannyGoldstein May 2014 OP

If anyone is making a list of Snowden and Greenwald supporters, scarletwoman May 2014 #1

I care about neither personally but if there is some list of supporters of our rights, put me on too TheKentuckian May 2014 #5

+1 GoneFishin May 2014 #75

You are already on the list dreamnightwind May 2014 #176

Sock Puppets billhicks76 May 2014 #180

Fools billhicks76 May 2014 #182

But, but, but... freebrew May 2014 #218

While I don't think all of the NSA supporters here are socks dreamnightwind May 2014 #183

Yes billhicks76 May 2014 #185

Think there are both sock puppets & Obamabots. lark May 2014 #223

One of their favorite tactics.. LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #225

That's what I'm talkin bout! TheKentuckian May 2014 #286

That's the list I want on too. n/t JimDandy May 2014 #266

People from what I see have honest disagreements. hrmjustin May 2014 #2

Really? You think those who resort to "Comrade Eddie" or "Gigi" or the rotfl smilie are being HONEST riderinthestorm May 2014 #9

Well ok you got me there. Some people resort to name calling. hrmjustin May 2014 #11

I can think of ONE poster who is conflicted and reasonable. The rest are seething and very vocal riderinthestorm May 2014 #16

I am sure there is more than just one. hrmjustin May 2014 #19

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #17

I try to stay away from this issue because it gets very emotional. hrmjustin May 2014 #21

Violation of Constitutional rights seem pretty clear cut to me. At least they were during the Bush sabrina 1 May 2014 #156

It was unconstitutional when GWB was doing it and I think arthritisR_US May 2014 #163

Thank you. I don't feel one bit confused, but sometimes when I read DU I wonder if I made a sabrina 1 May 2014 #171

So true. QC May 2014 #190

Wait, I am a bit confused here. cstanleytech May 2014 #219

Gathering intelligence on other countries is supposed to be the purview arthritisR_US May 2014 #224

You state: truedelphi May 2014 #241

Well, the standing joke within the NSA, since its inception, is that arthritisR_US May 2014 #290

I can't help you on that answer. hrmjustin May 2014 #201

I predict that I will not see a single :rofl: on this thread Capt. Obvious May 2014 #3

You know, this response seriously deservs a rofl mindwalker_i May 2014 #12

I still wouldn't see it Capt. Obvious May 2014 #15

Blocking that smiley would totally silence a number of DUers. QC May 2014 #20

I'm afraid it would be replaced by 10,000 links mindwalker_i May 2014 #36

It's a great idea Capt. Obvious May 2014 #191

That's a really good idea mindwalker_i May 2014 #32

with or without 20 blue links? Doctor_J May 2014 #206

I predict that I will not see that Capt. Obvious May 2014 #207

Wait, you can block posts with :rofl: ? JackRiddler May 2014 #297

Ad block the smiley Capt. Obvious May 2014 #301

I support both Greenwald and Snowden. DisgustipatedinCA May 2014 #4

What Voltaire believed. Octafish May 2014 #49

I do not support either Dwayne Hicks May 2014 #6

My two cents: I agree. LoisB May 2014 #14

Nor do I... Tikki May 2014 #29

I agree with this. one_voice May 2014 #94

IMO he crossed over into sedition with . . . brush May 2014 #111

nailed it. dionysus May 2014 #117

He didn't "admit he was a spy" Dopers_Greed May 2014 #216

A very slight difference . . . brush May 2014 #275

Agreed. Revealing details of our international covert ops? whathehell May 2014 #277

Exactly. No patriotism in that. nt brush May 2014 #284

When I saw was Holder did to Thomas Drake I can't say I blame arthritisR_US May 2014 #139

I would wager most people have either forgotten or never heard of Thomas Drake nor what he Uncle Joe May 2014 #148

He ended up having a public defender by that hearing because they had bankrupted arthritisR_US May 2014 #155

I believe past results must certainly be taken in to account Uncle Joe May 2014 #159

I used to be dead set against the little prick but after reading up on arthritisR_US May 2014 #162

He did not run to Russia. He went to Hong Kong. The US took away or cancelled his passport JDPriestly May 2014 #144

Knowing what other whistleblowers have gone through and the utter arthritisR_US May 2014 #161

He ran to the Russian Consulate in Hong Kong BEFORE his passport was voided for MADem May 2014 #169

Not only that, but Putin knew Ed was going to the consulate in Hong Kong! Major Hogwash May 2014 #173

Where there's smoke, there's fire, I'm thinkin'.... nt MADem May 2014 #174

According to his Hong Kong legal team, he could not stay in Hong Kong. ancianita May 2014 #213

Snowden’s attorneys had made little headway with the Hong Kong government MADem May 2014 #269

Nonsense. Snowden could have gone ANYWHERES before Greenwald released the info. ANYWHERES. KittyWampus May 2014 #212

Not so. The US has re-routed planes of South American presidents. ancianita May 2014 #215

Excuse me--that didn't happen until Snowden was in RUSSIA. MADem May 2014 #270

The point I was making was that he knew US capabilities in apprehending him. So no, he couldn't ancianita May 2014 #274

He had weeks to get away from HK, had he so chosen to do that. MADem May 2014 #280

going ANYWHERES and receiving asylum there are two very different things.... mike_c May 2014 #244

That just is not accurate. If that were the case, why didn't he stay in HK? MADem May 2014 #283

But two DU push polls that got about 300 votes COMBINED say otherwise! Number23 May 2014 #153

Brilliant! Luminous Animal May 2014 #160

I don't think there are viable alternatives to what Snowden did. Enthusiast May 2014 #193

Agreed. But the information exposed is valuable. riqster May 2014 #198

I'm leaning in this direction. nt arthritisR_US May 2014 #291

what is the better way? noiretextatique May 2014 #205

Please enlighten us about those better ways. Seriously. ancianita May 2014 #211

Oh for gawd's sake LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #227

According to the interview last night, bvar22 May 2014 #250

Does it matter? merrily May 2014 #7

There are some posters with reasonable criticisms of Snowden and Greenwald. Maedhros May 2014 #8

"If OUR president does it, it means it's not a crime" mindwalker_i May 2014 #10

I just don't bother going into their OPs, Autumn May 2014 #13

*** they're heroes. L0oniX May 2014 #18

and those that don't are traitors to privacy stupidicus May 2014 #22

Or more accurately, the constitution. zeemike May 2014 #48

that's a valid point stupidicus May 2014 #54

And I am convinced of that too. zeemike May 2014 #56

So if you think the NSA, which is forbidden by law from spying on citizens... randome May 2014 #58

I am thinking this may be true: JDPriestly May 2014 #149

But The Constitution Is "Just A God-Damned Piece Of Paper" Don'tcha Know ??? WillyT May 2014 #69

The name of the game sulphurdunn May 2014 #23

Bingo! I call 'em "Distractivists". n/t RufusTFirefly May 2014 #34

Great word, I'll try to remember it. n/t dreamnightwind May 2014 #177

Oh, there's a fucking army of paid Distractivists. Enthusiast May 2014 #194

lol Soylent Brice May 2014 #186

the critics are indeed wasting their time grasswire May 2014 #24

Put me down in that 80-90%. Curmudgeoness May 2014 #25

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2014 #26

Well, working from home has so many benefits. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #27

K&R. This is why I sometimes feel nostalgic for unrec RufusTFirefly May 2014 #28

only if the vast majority of du'ers voted in your 2 polls... spanone May 2014 #30

That Papa Paul Math is bugger Cryptoad May 2014 #41

Do the vast majority of voters vote in polls? zeemike May 2014 #55

yeah, i never knew a few polls with less that 170 responses spoke for the "vast majority" of DU... dionysus May 2014 #105

Yikes! That many?! Thanks for the awesome update dionysus. sheshe2 May 2014 #121

But not nearly so hate-filled as "etc." MannyGoldstein May 2014 #123

Well~ sheshe2 May 2014 #125

I just got a hide for saying I couldn't believe that people still read the posts from a person here Number23 May 2014 #158

And of course somebody alerted on this too. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #188

I have a recommendation for you, you can take or leave it as you'd like. MADem May 2014 #259

MAD, that's excellent advice but you know as well as I do that it won't do a thing Number23 May 2014 #273

Thanks for the heads up. Love that I was supposed to "learn" something from that first Number23 May 2014 #271

I don't like alert stalking no matter who is doing it or who is the recipient. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #272

Sadly I am not surprised... sheshe2 May 2014 #199

I never knew that a few polls with less the 50 responses spoke for ANYONE, let alone sabrina 1 May 2014 #133

Glenn isn't as much of a journalist as he is an editorialist, IMHO, and a sheer opportunist to boot. dionysus May 2014 #294

170 is a large number of responses to a DU poll. JDPriestly May 2014 #151

Plus or minus 5%, 19 times out of 20. Electric Monk May 2014 #278

So you must too! ProSense May 2014 #31

Manny being Manny.... MADem May 2014 #37

We know who Snowden is with... Whisp May 2014 #60

Really? Are we back in 7th grade now? Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #68

oh, you got held back a couple years? sorry about that. n/t Whisp May 2014 #72

Well, considering that Snowden flunked out of high school and had to get a GED... randome May 2014 #73

You know what they say.. MrMickeysMom May 2014 #107

Wow, that was low even for you. nt Mojorabbit May 2014 #120

I wonder if GG delivered ES a check--after all, GG fenced the goods that ES stole. MADem May 2014 #99

i highly doubt it. nt dionysus May 2014 #106

He looks like he's living well. Moscow is a Very Expensive City. MADem May 2014 #109

most likely his russian handlers... dionysus May 2014 #116

They gave him a job at a school book depository jberryhill May 2014 #128

hee hee. Whisp May 2014 #131

Didn't we read that Snowden has a job in Russia working on their version of Facebook? JDPriestly May 2014 #145

I understand that job offer was withdrawn. MADem May 2014 #168

Project much...??? (eom) CanSocDem May 2014 #200

It's called "drawing a logical conclusion," not projecting, but thanks for playing. MADem May 2014 #261

+1...nt SidDithers May 2014 #248

If he's as smart as I'm told that he is... Blanks May 2014 #251

He told Brian Williams he doesn't speak Russian. MADem May 2014 #254

Still, if you were in Russia with nothing better to do... Blanks May 2014 #260

That KGB friend of Putin's, who is now his lawyer (gee, what a coincidence), gave him MADem May 2014 #264

I wonder if they're paying him a flat rate or per leaked-document? George II May 2014 #302

No no no no no! sheshe2 May 2014 #126

That accusation has been roundly debunked, and ah hepped!!! MADem May 2014 #130

Thank you Gawd! sheshe2 May 2014 #136

We will have to get together for some Shake-n-Bake real soon, and call each other by our MADem May 2014 #137

Sounds good to me! sheshe2 May 2014 #140

Only if ah kin hep!!!!! MADem May 2014 #142

MADem, do you really think it is OK for the NSA, the executive branch, to collect all of our JDPriestly May 2014 #157

I think that what Snowden did--when he had options--was reprehensible. MADem May 2014 #166

I might agree with you if your assumption that a whistleblower can find JDPriestly May 2014 #285

Snowden had--so he insists--capabilities that other whistleblowers did not have. MADem May 2014 #288

Well, you gave it a try, anyway. woo me with science May 2014 #268

Well of course you can~ nt sheshe2 May 2014 #197

She's gonna get a vaca one of these days... Send pix of the fried chicken. freshwest May 2014 #292

How ironic. I've been downloading chicken recipers for BTA today... n/t freshwest May 2014 #289

And you have to photoshop GG head on someone elses body to make you childish smear? LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #233

Hitler wasn't available but Omidyar was: Whisp May 2014 #236

Oh, I guess Hitler would be on your side, sorry LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #240

RON PAUL ROCKS!!! so much I had to add him to the family: Whisp May 2014 #242

So... black and white it is... LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #245

Are you calling God stupid? Whisp May 2014 #246

God? I'll leave her out of it LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #247

If one saved me from being run over by a bus Whisp May 2014 #249

ha ha! MADem May 2014 #300

two polls.. each with less than 175 votes.. DU clearly has spoken.... dionysus May 2014 #101

It's probably just Obama support fbc May 2014 #33

For some reason we occasionally are strongarmed to some members views liberal N proud May 2014 #35

I'm in the minority and have no intention of shutting up perdita9 May 2014 #38

The Non-Conformist Oath struggle4progress May 2014 #39

I heard Comrade Snowden's new Beach House Cryptoad May 2014 #40

DU only has 151 members? blue neen May 2014 #42

The "vast majority of DU" ProSense May 2014 #57

"I am not here to hide from justice." Said from his undisclosed location in Hong Kong. randome May 2014 #43

Snowden ProSense May 2014 #44

Snowden is a traitor of the highest order IMO. Trust Buster May 2014 #45

That statement's got to be a mile wide and an inch thick MrMickeysMom May 2014 #112

But corporate America is not bound by the Constitution to respect your rights. JDPriestly May 2014 #147

solely for reasons of profit and not imprisonment frylock May 2014 #231

Bullshit! nt Logical May 2014 #256

Strictly out of curiosity, would you please name some traitors of 2nd & 3rd highest orders? DisgustipatedinCA May 2014 #295

I'm watching 'Rushmore' with my daughters this evening. randome May 2014 #46

awesome choice of film. dionysus May 2014 #296

Possibly in a moment's kindness Manny they flattered you in a poll. ucrdem May 2014 #47

I vote for the Presidential Medal of Freedom for Snowden Jake2413 May 2014 #50

Unfortunately, on DU we mistake number of posts with member population Android3.14 May 2014 #51

"obsessive posting from this oddly isolated group on DU is something like addiction" carolinayellowdog May 2014 #82

That seems a better description than mine Android3.14 May 2014 #90

Hey Manny....the last time I was in a minority like that, it was 9/12. I didn't support Bush. So msanthrope May 2014 #52

I am firmly in the minority here at DU because rury May 2014 #53

This message was self-deleted by its author Whisp May 2014 #59

Yes, Whisp, ENOUGH!!!! msanthrope May 2014 #61

I moved it to #60. Whisp May 2014 #62

Apparently there's a movement to ban the popcorn smilie as well. Shall we do msanthrope May 2014 #63

These folks cry so hard over the rofl smiley because they know they're jokes Number23 May 2014 #164

Yes We Do... WillyT May 2014 #64

K&R bobduca May 2014 #65

Yeah, a vast majority of maybe 170 people. Incredible! n/t albino65 May 2014 #66

Don't bring Math into this!!! That means you support the NSA. nt msanthrope May 2014 #67

You Haven't Been Here Long Enough To "Know" The Math... WillyT May 2014 #71

A good sample! Get sampling? nt Logical May 2014 #257

Thank You Snowden, Thank You Greenwald, Thank You Manny cantbeserious May 2014 #70

Why did the Post and the Guardian win a Pulitzer for Public Service? RufusTFirefly May 2014 #74

Why did Obama win a Nobel before he even had a chance to be President? randome May 2014 #78

because bobduca May 2014 #84

That's what the ignore function is for Blecht May 2014 #76

What? I can't hear you! Speak up! randome May 2014 #77

The participants in the survey are self selected so that may skew results, but I think your point Ed Suspicious May 2014 #79

therefore the vast majority must be drowned out by the desperate minority carolinayellowdog May 2014 #80

Another possibility: Raine1967 May 2014 #81

As a Liberal I love the federal government. String Fiesta May 2014 #83

He exposed massive criminality by our government. As a result, he is the target of smear campaigns. woo me with science May 2014 #85

"smearing clowns have no credibility whatsoever." bobduca May 2014 #86

Credibility doesn't matter a whit. It's all about getting the smear and diversion out there. woo me with science May 2014 #88

+1 a whole fucking bunch. Enthusiast May 2014 #196

I support both of their actions. The character attacks tell me much more about the GoneFishin May 2014 #87

+ 100 cantbeserious May 2014 #118

Fuckin A! TheKentuckian May 2014 #178

Yes, they do. madfloridian May 2014 #89

I never knew DU was so small..... brooklynite May 2014 #91

in purposefully misleading-land it is... dionysus May 2014 #108

Check in if you Support President Barack Hussein Obama ProSense May 2014 #92

Missed Opportunity! bobduca May 2014 #95

Snowden is an unusual man, an interesting man who I am grateful to. I would know less Jefferson23 May 2014 #93

Excellent thread, Manny. Tremendous effort and resources are being poured into woo me with science May 2014 #96

You rock. MannyGoldstein May 2014 #98

Excellent read! Pholus May 2014 #184

Yes they do. So do a majority of the American people, not to mention the German, British, Irish, sabrina 1 May 2014 #97

LOL.. two polls with less than 175 votes. keep trying manny... dionysus May 2014 #100

Well, Manny… All I can say is my Rec is #101 for this thread... MrMickeysMom May 2014 #102

When I hear that from someone whose opinion matters, like an Admin, I'll give a damn. Until then Rowdyboy May 2014 #103

it's extremely presumptuous of you to falsely accuse Manny carolinayellowdog May 2014 #175

Sorry to disappoint you but no one tells me what to think, the number of recs notwithstanding.... Rowdyboy May 2014 #208

More evidence that DU does not reflect ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #104

53% of Americans want the info disclosed, 24% not MannyGoldstein May 2014 #113

And ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #114

And sheshe2 May 2014 #129

I don't think any useful conclusions can be drawn from your polls... Blanks May 2014 #252

Absolutely! n/t Peregrine Took May 2014 #110

Yes! mia May 2014 #115

You can count me among Snowden's and Greenwald's supporters, as well... elzenmahn May 2014 #119

Same thing at the Daily Kos psiman May 2014 #122

Got aa link to that? Lol, it's always fun watching them reveal themselves. They are showing sabrina 1 May 2014 #124

The same justification was used for homophobia and racism for many years. Renew Deal May 2014 #127

You mean, the vast majority of those who responded to those polls support Snowden and Greenwald. DavidDvorkin May 2014 #132

KNR DirkGently May 2014 #134

Is there a reason you didn't do a poll? n/t pnwmom May 2014 #135

I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told... Algernon Moncrieff May 2014 #138

WOW. That is an incredibly loud 15 or so people. Marr May 2014 #141

Our government was caught.. mvd May 2014 #143

I support. n/t PowerToThePeople May 2014 #146

Damn straight. DeSwiss May 2014 #150

The tyranny of the majority always has to be counterbalanced by the voice of the minority. Rex May 2014 #152

vocal is fine, singing multipart harmony in a hymn to the US govt is not carolinayellowdog May 2014 #262

I am no GG/Snowden supporter, but even I can see the deflection going on. Rex May 2014 #265

Well, when you're a party apparatchik, and you're *supposed* to post defenses of the indefensible villager May 2014 #154

Well then... It's settled. JohnnyRingo May 2014 #165

And Julian Assange, I believe. snot May 2014 #167

Feds are bold faced LIARS?!?! Who coulda known?!?! blkmusclmachine May 2014 #170

The vast majority of DU members don't even know what Snowden did!! Major Hogwash May 2014 #172

Some of the documents themselves may provide an answer. Helen Borg May 2014 #179

add my name on there too Coolest Ranger May 2014 #181

Read Greenwald's book ... DrBulldog May 2014 #187

Why is it so important to you that people should disagree with Skidmore May 2014 #189

Did the dentist flashbang May 2014 #202

I support Snowden's and Greenwald's actions. Enthusiast May 2014 #192

ZZZZZZZZZZZ rtracey May 2014 #195

I support Snowden/Greenwald, but didn't vote in either poll because I never saw those posts. nt NorthCarolina May 2014 #203

... Scuba May 2014 #204

Snowden and Greenwald johnny156 May 2014 #209

We should vote on which opinions can be Progressive dog May 2014 #210

148 votes in one poll, 169 votes in the other, and you make that proclamation? George II May 2014 #214

I do...knr joeybee12 May 2014 #217

Argumentum ad populum, really? themaguffin May 2014 #220

I so agree lark May 2014 #221

The first poll... Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #222

And DU "supported" Dennis Kucinich for President. Democrats? Not so much. What's your point? Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #226

Hive mind... SidDithers May 2014 #230

I mean, it's the internet. Alex Jones is popular on the internet. Snowdenistas are in great company. Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #235

The vast majority of DUers wanted Kucinich to be President... SidDithers May 2014 #228

Edwards was the bee's knees here too amongst a certain subset. MADem May 2014 #299

Well if you are going to word the survey "Sad" that he did it then yes most people won't answer it. gholtron May 2014 #229

So if members of your family were wronged in a serious way... LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #239

Yes. gholtron May 2014 #258

Just to add to my previous response post gholtron May 2014 #263

i support the disclosures frylock May 2014 #232

I support their actions. No, I suppose it is not worth responding to the supporters of the Military Zorra May 2014 #234

This message was self-deleted by its author Whisp May 2014 #237

Thanks for renewing my faith in this site, Manny. robertpaulsen May 2014 #238

glad to see you; many of us are sick of the anti-Snowden/Greenwald shitstorm carolinayellowdog May 2014 #253

rec'd mike_c May 2014 #243

DURec! bvar22 May 2014 #255

Glad to rec and kick. Jakes Progress May 2014 #267

When you use the word "overall" you get me on board too randys1 May 2014 #276

Oh Manny how wrong you are. Puglover May 2014 #279

I can only see 6 out of 176 posts THANK YOU IGNORE LIST! carolinayellowdog May 2014 #281

Seriously. Puglover May 2014 #282

No matter what Snowden said ... DrBulldog May 2014 #287

I support Snowden, haven't paid any attention to Greenwald so neutral. McCamy Taylor May 2014 #293

I did the same two polls a while ago! JackRiddler May 2014 #298

100% raindaddy Jun 2014 #303