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Generic Other

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212. Sometimes it is not about Obama

Fri May 30, 2014, 08:39 AM

May 2014

Believe it or not, there are concepts and actions larger than even his iconographic stature. I am writing about Snowden, not Obama's hagiography. I leave that to you and the rest of the BOGGERs.

I have not approved of most of the actions of the US government for decades. But yeah, there's the talking point. I am a traitor like Snowden. Or maybe Trotsky. Who knows anymore. All I know is I have not had to turn myself inside out like a pretzel to find a position I could assume that didn't go against my actual beliefs for a long time.

Some people act like being ethical, refusing to support anti-American policies, exposing corruption and ruthless power grabs is a crime. I think it is our duty as Americans.

Obama is a lame duck president. Has been for most of his term. Get used to it. Or do you plan to push for a Constitutional amendment to keep him in office another four years?

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Edward Snowden made a calm, compelling case for clemency last night. He's a patriot. [View all] chimpymustgo May 2014 OP

This is a rule of thumb I usually abide by. randome May 2014 #1

Brian William, a TV guy, has more inside info than the guy who actually did the work for NSA? merrily May 2014 #54

It's more like what Snowden did NOT provide: evidence. randome May 2014 #103

my post went to a dfifferent point. But, you think he owes someone proof of something? Why? merrily May 2014 #113

When you steal national security documents and run from the country... randome May 2014 #116

Did he disturb your comfortable denial bubble? You think the NSA is using their unlimited budget rhett o rick May 2014 #169

Snowden Did Well liberalmike27 May 2014 #221

I have no idea what the 1% versus the 99% has to do with this. randome May 2014 #222

You polled "every country on the planet"? The authoritarian leaders all hate Snowden. rhett o rick May 2014 #226

I don't trust the NSA. I never said I did. randome May 2014 #227

Now we are getting down to it. You dont like Snowden for a number of reasons. rhett o rick May 2014 #230

I'm sorry to barge in on the conversation, but War Horse May 2014 #255

IOW, he owes no one any proof or even any explanation. merrily May 2014 #191

Sure, anyone can shoot off their mouth. I'll give Snowden that. randome May 2014 #220

IOW, Snowden has no obligation to prove anything to anyone. merrily May 2014 #245

He doesn't present the evidence because he did not take it with him to Russia. JDPriestly May 2014 #174

Seems that he doesnt have any evidence to take anywhere....nt Cryptoad May 2014 #199

+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #122

You make good points but there is no way to know what the arthritisR_US May 2014 #127

Fair point. randome May 2014 #135

at least in theory ohheckyeah May 2014 #173

If he found improprieties, why didn't he get evidence of it? randome May 2014 #223

I think the phone records metadata ohheckyeah May 2014 #242

Lol, the telecoms have admitted what they are doing for the Govt. Now that they have been exposed sabrina 1 May 2014 #225

They have been 'exposed' since 2006 when we knew metadata storage was part of the NSA. randome May 2014 #229

But... but... Kerry said we should not like him! Obama did too! n/t ReverendDeuce May 2014 #2

Have a link to OP's or news articles directly quoting DonViejo May 2014 #26

Kerry said "he is a traitor" muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #50

Thanks for the link, much appreciated! eom DonViejo May 2014 #114

So they called him a traitor. zeemike May 2014 #63

Who are you addressing with this comment? eom DonViejo May 2014 #115

Your post #26 eom zeemike May 2014 #130

I asked a simple question... DonViejo May 2014 #136

I know you were just asking the question zeemike May 2014 #159

They called Thomas Drake a traitor too, which he wasn't. nt arthritisR_US May 2014 #137

Kerry said nothing like that. treestar May 2014 #66

This is the height of entertainment ProSense May 2014 #3

Snowden really helped his case. The interview is changing minds too - for people willing to think. chimpymustgo May 2014 #4

Brian Williams is not stupid malaise May 2014 #5

He and the other analysts tore Snowden apart after the interview. n/t ProSense May 2014 #12

Look he's a tool, a classic opportunist malaise May 2014 #16

Yet he got the interview. Greenwald ProSense May 2014 #47

Yes, he got the interview. Is that supposed to prove something? merrily May 2014 #59

Totally predictable. Media is notoriously pro-establishment--and chicken. merrily May 2014 #64

I didn't see that. Do you know if it was posted online? nt arthritisR_US May 2014 #132

You are so right. A whole bunch of people are going to look stupid - and traitorous. chimpymustgo May 2014 #55

Really? ProSense May 2014 #6

If you can't kill the message, kill the messenger. JDPriestly May 2014 #177

It's changing minds, all right. MADem May 2014 #182

They are just pulling crap from every orifice today. I'd like to see proof of "changing minds". Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #239

COMCAST/XFINITY are showcasing it in their ON DEMAND menu. MADem May 2014 #240

Thanks for that synopsis. I can't bear to watch him or GG, so I appreciate it. I think Bill Maher Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #243

how can you judge him if you won't even... grasswire May 2014 #249

You didn't watch it, yet you are passing judgment on his performance? Squinch May 2014 #253

"His performance"? Is that what it was? My mind was already made up. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #256

How very Republican. Squinch Jun 2014 #257

I think you may have confused me with GG & Snowey, the Repub...er, I mean Libertarians. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #258

Well, no. I am basing my opinion on your words in this thread. So not mistaking you for anyone. Squinch Jun 2014 #259

How 'bout this one? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #261

"The interview is changing minds too - for people willing to think". Is this just a hunch, or is... Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #238

Nope. Not according to this "scientific" poll. MUST! TRY! HARDER! Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #262

People committed themselves to him the day his name came out treestar May 2014 #65

Nailed it... SidDithers May 2014 #101

And Authoritarians hated him the day his name came out. former9thward May 2014 #163

We aren't authoritarians for thinking he should face what he did treestar May 2014 #164

He would argue, and I would agree, that he acted to protect the Constitution. JDPriestly May 2014 #180

No, the jury pool has NOT been prejudiced. Most people didn't watch Snowden OR Kerry on TV. MADem May 2014 #241

NAILED It! n/t wildbilln864 May 2014 #170

If I was in deep trouble, realized that I didn't want to live in Russia any longer, but... George II May 2014 #120

That's a good point. nt arthritisR_US May 2014 #140

As an American, I think that upholding the Constitution is more impotant than JDPriestly May 2014 #181

You really hate these posts! Especially the recs! LOL! Nt Logical Jun 2014 #263

Rapid response team 3.. 2.. Capt. Obvious May 2014 #7

LOL! Anyone who responds negatively is part of a conspiracy. KittyWampus May 2014 #9

LOL YOUR WORDS NOT MINE Capt. Obvious May 2014 #10

Only someone who is part of the conspiracy would dismiss the conspiracy! randome May 2014 #11

Na na na! I can't hear you!! Generic Other May 2014 #19

Not me. I couldn't care less if the NSA continues to exist or not. randome May 2014 #34

I was agreeing with you Generic Other May 2014 #40

Or I need to work on my interpretive skills. randome May 2014 #46

Thats the point he hasn't shown what they did do... Historic NY May 2014 #57

We know know that massive amounts of data have been collected and stored, that it can be accessed at merrily May 2014 #71

I have the capability to eavesdrop outside your door. Any evidence I am doing that? randome May 2014 #118

If you eavesdropped outside someone's door, that person would have the capacity to call the JDPriestly May 2014 #183

No, he describes the Snowdenites treestar May 2014 #68

Sometimes it is not about Obama Generic Other May 2014 #212

Yes! and I see today they have a new talking point as well! nt Mojorabbit May 2014 #119

And where did I get my talking point? Generic Other May 2014 #211

Um I was agreeing with you Mojorabbit May 2014 #232

Thank you for clarifying Generic Other May 2014 #244

What was the code name for Putin again? treestar May 2014 #107

"Shirtless Bear Wrassler". nt Jamaal510 May 2014 #167

It's like they really resent disagreement on this treestar May 2014 #67

Is it different from your posts 67 and 68? merrily May 2014 #79

Yes. I didn't start an OP to talk about posters in a different OP. treestar May 2014 #82

So, the difference between grade school-like posts and other kinds is geography, not content? merrily May 2014 #92

Could you please explain what remains of the Fourth Amendment once the NSA has the authority JDPriestly May 2014 #184

A worthless piece of paper Generic Other May 2014 #213

It's so sad. JDPriestly May 2014 #234

It always takes a bit of time before they get the email with the latest talking points... backscatter712 May 2014 #48

Vapid response team in 3..2.. Bobbie Jo May 2014 #69

YAWN Capt. Obvious May 2014 #78

Stay vigilant Bobbie Jo May 2014 #91

So that's it then, You decide and we must agree? I didn't know I was in Freeperland... themaguffin May 2014 #142

We're all living in Freeperland! Generic Other May 2014 #214

Why would he need clemency? Progressive dog May 2014 #8

The excuses are all over the place. ProSense May 2014 #31

He needs presidential pardon to absolve him of all possible charges on point May 2014 #33

If Snowden needs a pardon, he must be guilty Progressive dog May 2014 #41

No, one is never guilty until found in court of law. Presumption of innocense on point May 2014 #56

A pardon means you are guilty treestar May 2014 #73

No. The presumption of innocence means that the prosecution has to prove a case in the first place, merrily May 2014 #105

He doesn't need a pardon. He needs a deal. Let his lawyers figure it out. JDPriestly May 2014 #186

Did you mean to reply to me? My post was not about needing a pardon or not. merrily May 2014 #188

Well, that is true but Progressive dog May 2014 #252

In fact, he would get so much attention treestar May 2014 #72

Snowden would NOT be given a Jury Trial. bvar22 May 2014 #156

Of course he would be given a jury trial, if he wanted that. Why would you think he would not? nt msanthrope May 2014 #160

He has the right to trial by jury treestar May 2014 #165

Sounds to me like you should be emabarrassed Progressive dog May 2014 #251

He could not get a fair trial. The jury pool has been prejudiced against him by the careless JDPriestly May 2014 #185

Sixty percent say he's a patriot Progressive dog May 2014 #250

He - and Daniel Ellsberg - have explained that clearly. But I like his going to the court of public chimpymustgo May 2014 #58

When is Daniel Ellsburg getting out of prison, Progressive dog May 2014 #97

He could argue he complied with the whistleblower law treestar May 2014 #70

Did he say he wanted to be a hero to America? merrily May 2014 #75

True. Maybe he doesn't care treestar May 2014 #77

Really? I don't think he's a hero for refusing to come back, but I understand why he doesn't. merrily May 2014 #81

He would not get a life sentence. He was charged with treestar May 2014 #148

He's been called a traitor by the highest officials of the US and can still be charged with treason. merrily May 2014 #189

But he and many Americans believe he did what he did to protect the Constitution. JDPriestly May 2014 #187

As at least one FISA court judge finally began to suggest, the courts are complicit. merrily May 2014 #196

Snowdens hypocrisy is not giving America a say on HIS actions via justice system but we should uponit7771 May 2014 #126

You may want to check the definition of hypocrisy. merrily May 2014 #208

And of course General "Star Trek" Bridge Commander Alexander Generic Other May 2014 #217

this is an ignorant post grasswire May 2014 #139

That is an excellent point. The reality of him being able to defend arthritisR_US May 2014 #143

NO, he is charged in open court treestar May 2014 #149

you are absolutely wrong. grasswire May 2014 #152

It's in the interest of national security that our government make a deal with him. JDPriestly May 2014 #190

? He's never claimed he broke no laws, has he? merrily May 2014 #74

He'made lots of claims, I can't keep track of them. eom Progressive dog May 2014 #96

Seems to be a lot of that making claims and making up claims going around on merrily May 2014 #99

+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #124

NBC did about as much for him as they could. ucrdem May 2014 #13

He came off as bastshit crazy. MohRokTah May 2014 #14

duly noted frylock May 2014 #125

I didn't get the sincerity vibe. At all. ecstatic May 2014 #15

Agreed. I don't think he did himself Bobbie Jo May 2014 #39

And Kerry hasn't finished... CanSocDem May 2014 #17

Kerry was and has been an embarrassment all around Generic Other May 2014 #20

Sez someone who couldn't hold a candle to Kerry in the public arena and how he has positively blm May 2014 #35

A candle that simply blows where the wind blows Generic Other May 2014 #36

He was spot on about Snowden. ProSense May 2014 #43

Agreeing with Obama's take when you work for Obama does not equal being "spot on." merrily May 2014 #197

Sez someone who doesn't know much about the last 4 decades of this nation's REAL history. blm May 2014 #44

Ah, so you're the one who got the real history book. merrily May 2014 #198

I guess they didn't read about cheating the vote in Ohio Generic Other May 2014 #218

Yup...keyboard warrior Snowden's the one with guts now BeyondGeography May 2014 #49

keyboard warrior? Union Scribe May 2014 #145

Well, it did take guts to snooker his co-workers into giving him their passwords BeyondGeography May 2014 #146

again, you're not getting that phrase. Union Scribe May 2014 #147

It's true...I need a proper term BeyondGeography May 2014 #150

Well, that's the correct term, either. Snowden did not steal "anonymously." merrily May 2014 #200

He was better than Murder Monkey, though that's not saying much. n/t backscatter712 May 2014 #45

Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning affectively made conscious decisions Ninga May 2014 #18

A jury of his peers Generic Other May 2014 #23

Even if you follow the law, whistleblowing is still a risky business (no movie pun intended) merrily May 2014 #201

Is he still willing... Adrahil May 2014 #21

And the Nazis who tried to bring down Hitler? Generic Other May 2014 #25

That's a bit of a stretch. olegramps May 2014 #89

So if he ends his days in solitary Generic Other May 2014 #210

That response only reveals you lack of faith in the nation. olegramps May 2014 #224

The US government has been utterly dysfunctional since Reagan Generic Other May 2014 #228

The situation will not rectified by giving up on government, but by correction. olegramps May 2014 #247

One can love the land Generic Other May 2014 #248

Are you arguing that US Foreign intelligence operation=Nazis? Adrahil May 2014 #95

At least you have thought about it Generic Other May 2014 #215

Like school in the summer time, no class uponit7771 May 2014 #128

Bless your heart Generic Other May 2014 #216

NBC had a graphic on the morning talk show... MelungeonWoman May 2014 #22

I was completely Snowden agnostic before the interview vi5 May 2014 #52

He did come off way better than John Kerry did. Autumn May 2014 #24

I didn't see the interview and care little about Snowden. At this point he's a distraction .... Scuba May 2014 #27

Snowden and PBS both feel we need to be educated about Gov survalance... Ninga May 2014 #32

How about a graphic with Snowden's other interpretation of those who steal and run? randome May 2014 #37

Knock yourself out. Scuba May 2014 #38

Bingo! The more anyone makes it about Snowden and/or Greenwald, the less they make it merrily May 2014 #195

Tell me which elected politicians have humbled themselves Generic Other May 2014 #28

And award him Medal of Freedom for service to the country on point May 2014 #29

It made a few paragraphs on page 19 of the New York Times frazzled May 2014 #30

He did very well. Throughly decent person and super-smart. Smarmie Doofus May 2014 #42

super smart? an average intelligent person would have gone to a country for asylum first before lostincalifornia May 2014 #90

You're throwing around a lot of highly subjective words in your post. Avalux May 2014 #51

Russia might jump at the chance, but Snowden claims he had no documents to put into their hands. ancianita May 2014 #80

Of course he claims that, but how do we know? Avalux May 2014 #87

Why shouldn't we? Why should we trust Clapper and the NSA or Kerry or the White House? ancianita May 2014 #94

bring down our government? grasswire May 2014 #155

Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast May 2014 #53

A patriot would not have given information to anyone which has been received by foreign countries. Thinkingabout May 2014 #60

He's not my hero, but I don't think you know whether the information that foreign countries got merrily May 2014 #62

It could have been and that's bad enough uponit7771 May 2014 #129

No, it really isn't. Telling someone something they already know is a non-event, not a crime. merrily May 2014 #192

He handed the documents to two American citizens, not foreign countries. Get your facts straight. ancianita May 2014 #83

ummm, Chinese media = Chinese government... there's no one who beleives they're seperate uponit7771 May 2014 #131

What? Snowden turned over docs to Americans. Do you have some 'in' with Chinese intel? ancianita May 2014 #144

Link? I've seen that claim before, but could not find a link to support it. merrily May 2014 #193

On the facts, he gave information Merkel had conversations monitored, she is from Germany, Thinkingabout May 2014 #161

Merkel, an ALLY, found out what was in docs he took from the NSA. ancianita May 2014 #162

Merkel didn't know she was monitoring? And she didn't know the US knew about her monitoring? merrily May 2014 #194

Giving info to someone who already has it is a national security problem? merrily May 2014 #203

Is China a part of the US? He provided information of our monitoring of China. Thinkingabout May 2014 #206

Who said China (or Germany) was part of the US? Also, do you have a link on China? Please see #193 merrily May 2014 #207

Traitor - Patriot rtracey May 2014 #61

If you found files on your work computer that showed your company was committing crimes zeemike May 2014 #76

Sorry, i dont see the logic rtracey May 2014 #108

So mass surveillance of the American people, against the constitution zeemike May 2014 #134

He learned of something that he thought Americans should know. merrily May 2014 #209

Like not exposing Enron and the calls about Generic Other May 2014 #219

He is no patriot, and he is an idiot also for not getting to a country where he wanted asylum first lostincalifornia May 2014 #84

He was SMART not to want his plane grounded by US intervention.Presidents of 5 S. American countries ancianita May 2014 #98

Did you read my blurb? Secure the country then release the documents lostincalifornia May 2014 #151

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #85

I see the too-much-time-on-their-hands crowd has arrived Android3.14 May 2014 #86

When did it become acceptable to attack the personal appearance of someone one disagrees with? George II May 2014 #88

The attacks on Kerry are funny because it's often said it is not about Eddie treestar May 2014 #104

Just marveling at Kerry's descent into ridiculousness. chimpymustgo May 2014 #171

Had Edward Snowden happened under a President Mitt Romney Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #93

It's pretty much in complete harmony anyway. Smarmie Doofus May 2014 #100

Nobody would be paying any attention treestar May 2014 #111

they'd be onboard if it was any other Democratic prez too Skittles May 2014 #112

No. In that scenario, Snowden would have picked up a gun and shot himself in the balls. randome May 2014 #117

Lol. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #153

BULL FUCKING SHIT!!! uponit7771 May 2014 #133

You assume a great deal. Ikonoklast May 2014 #158

He did? I watched basketball. OKNancy May 2014 #102

The interview had an impact smallcat88 May 2014 #106

Snowden johnny156 May 2014 #109

But he is a Double Naught Spy~ MohRokTah May 2014 #121

Umm, no. No he is not a patriot. gcomeau May 2014 #110

I thought Snowden made his case pretty well, given the format. bluedigger May 2014 #123

Thanks for your candor. It was important for Americans to see and hear Snowden unfiltered. chimpymustgo May 2014 #141

There is only a handful that bash him, bvar22 May 2014 #157

Paid is my guess. Jakes Progress May 2014 #172

Amazing, how they expect us to ignore the treatment of whistleblowers dougolat May 2014 #176

libertarians strike me as very odd. stonecutter357 May 2014 #138

patsy Whisp May 2014 #154

I watched the NBC interview. Snowden came out looking good. Autumn May 2014 #166

He served the interests of humanity which includes Americans, as for the patriotism... carolinayellowdog May 2014 #168

At DU, is really about exalting the US's interests above everyone else's? If merrily May 2014 #205

Snowden is worse than a billion Hitlers nikto May 2014 #175

Well, I'm glad you saw it. Hopefully, the audience in his new country was bigger. Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #178

I don't watch anything political on television. djean111 May 2014 #202

Then what was this PR stunt for if not to change American minds? Isn't this to build support for... Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #233

I really think that Snowden does not have a "fan club" at all - there is just the ridiculous charge djean111 May 2014 #235

In other words, you don't care what your fellow Americans think. Got it! Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #236

I hatesss to pull a Godwin, but just blindly following what all one's other countrymen think can be djean111 May 2014 #237

Please tell me you are not implying that the low ratings reflect badly on Snowden. merrily May 2014 #204

I know. I feel your pain. It is sad, isn't it? Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #231

Sorry you're hurting, but it's not my pain you're feeling. I'm not in any pain. merrily May 2014 #246

, blkmusclmachine May 2014 #179

He just needs to come home and make Progressive dog May 2014 #254

The purpose of the government is to protect the 1% from the threat of democracy. Zorra Jun 2014 #260

That was probably the first time most people woo me with science Jun 2014 #264

Um. Not so much. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #265

Actually, polls have pretty consistently indicated that Americans distrust NSA spying woo me with science Jun 2014 #266

Oh, there's more than one, and they all say the same thing. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #267