Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ChadwickHenryWard

(862 posts)
86. What, in your mind, would constitute "forcing one to buy health insurance?"
Sun Apr 1, 2012, 01:25 PM
Apr 2012

If not fiduciary penalty, what, if anything, would constitute a government command or compulsion to buy health insurance?

buy insurance or be fined. KG Apr 2012 #1
I like it...I support the mandate. FarPoint Apr 2012 #2
Your post is an oxymoron Doctor_J Apr 2012 #21
If you desire discussion then do so. FarPoint Apr 2012 #35
Doctor J's reply was in no manner "aggressive and insulting". xtraxritical Apr 2012 #70
I am entitled FarPoint Apr 2012 #75
Yes you are entitled to your opinion, you are even entitled to both of them. n/t A Simple Game Apr 2012 #91
So, you join the game of harassment as well? FarPoint Apr 2012 #130
Agreeing with you is harassment? If you say so. A Simple Game Apr 2012 #146
heh heh heh progressoid Apr 2012 #200
LOL Skittles Apr 2012 #206
What is he wrong about? rgbecker Apr 2012 #215
lol Skittles Apr 2012 #249
How was his question an insult or agressive? Javaman Apr 2012 #222
Looks like the doublespeak came unraveled for a minute there. n/t pa28 Apr 2012 #98
The truth is, although the word "Mandate" is not in the ACA, rgbecker Apr 2012 #133
A tax penalty is not forcing you to buy health insurance Zalatix Apr 2012 #135
Pay the fine and still not get insurance... rgbecker Apr 2012 #137
Supposing you are a family barely making it on the income you have. You pay your taxes, sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #180
Well said. And if there are fines to be paid - they SHOULD be used to defray unpaid medical costs. cyberpj Apr 2012 #219
I did notice... Cheviteau Apr 2012 #232
Simple, you get a tax credit. stevenleser Apr 2012 #237
"The Mandate" is simply the term that is used for the provision in question... reACTIONary Apr 2012 #191
So did the Heritage Foundation, who came up with this idea. Zalatix Apr 2012 #61
It's the best we could get through Congress, and it's already started to bend the cost curve down pnwmom Apr 2012 #121
sounds ok to me. just out of curiosity, do you have health insurance? cali Apr 2012 #6
We do. and agree on that point. better with the bill than without for some people. BUT the bill robinlynne Apr 2012 #176
Paying a fine and being forced to buy insurance are two very different things. rgbecker Apr 2012 #11
It's a subtle distinction thesquanderer Apr 2012 #116
If the ACA was making people "buy" insurance... rgbecker Apr 2012 #131
You are correct. nt BOHICA12 Apr 2012 #145
What is the fine for posession or for DUI? about the smae, right? actually probably less. robinlynne Apr 2012 #177
"Do this or face legal sanction" = "you are forced to do this." Period. (nt) Posteritatis Apr 2012 #211
You don't buy insurance and go to the emergency room, I get fined... W T F Apr 2012 #18
WTF are you talking about? appleannie1 Apr 2012 #26
When the uninsured use the ER for medical care, we ALL pay for it MinisterMelinda Apr 2012 #45
I have news for you. When the insured use the ER for medical care EFerrari Apr 2012 #48
"And we will continue to pay for it if this plan is implemented." Link? SunSeeker Apr 2012 #87
This bill will help many low-income families pay for health insurance. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #102
It will help single men like myself. zinnisking Apr 2012 #126
Insured folks are far more likely to see their doctor rather than go to the ER... markpkessinger Apr 2012 #114
MA pays 15% more per capita above the national average EFerrari Apr 2012 #216
Exactly. Welcome to DU. cbayer Apr 2012 #52
How? LACarMan Apr 2012 #84
But if you couldn't afford to make payments on the emergency room visit A Simple Game Apr 2012 #108
The government makes up the deficit now. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #168
I've never heard of that. Telly Savalas Apr 2012 #193
Here: girl gone mad Apr 2012 #204
that is only true if the uninsured don't pay their medical bill from the ER hfojvt Apr 2012 #105
ER would be OK for trauma, but... levp Apr 2012 #111
A $1,000 bill from an ER is VERY optimistic! n/t markpkessinger Apr 2012 #117
mine was "only" $800 hfojvt Apr 2012 #125
This kind of thinking GirlinContempt Apr 2012 #207
$1000 if the worse thing that happened to people was a broken arm and needing stitches. SmellyFeet Apr 2012 #221
That calls for a link. Please provide proof that you have been fined when someone else TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #112
Who knows what these people are arguing for anymore, it is all semantic contortions at this point. Dragonfli Apr 2012 #259
If you are under certain income nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #100
buy a house or you can't deduct the mortgage interest...etc, etc... Sancho Apr 2012 #107
Wait, levp Apr 2012 #113
I rent. That means I pay a tax penalty Recursion Apr 2012 #187
+1. Or "give to charity or don't get a tax break!" That's real tyranny. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #152
No one is penalized for not purchasing a home. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #171
I am being penalized for not purchasing a home Recursion Apr 2012 #188
Your landlord probably takes the deduction which lowers your rent. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #189
Nope. The building is paid off. (nt) Recursion Apr 2012 #192
Health care isn't a lipstick. It's a necessity. pnwmom Apr 2012 #120
Health care, maybe. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #169
In the U.S., insurance is a necessity. Medicare for all couldn't have gotten pnwmom Apr 2012 #184
Insurance is not a necessity. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #190
Where? GirlinContempt Apr 2012 #208
Ah, another ignorant one. SmellyFeet Apr 2012 #223
gee, if an uninsured person goes to the emergency room, who do you think pays for it now? still_one Apr 2012 #212
and repeating the 'fine' lie over and over bowens43 Apr 2012 #236
Here's hoping people will understand that. freshwest Apr 2012 #3
I agree with you tibbiit Apr 2012 #4
I just ingore threads to repeat TP ffr Apr 2012 #33
If we're not buying insurance, then what is our $447 billion dollars buying, exactly? EFerrari Apr 2012 #5
so it doesn't matter enough to you that if the ACA is overturned cali Apr 2012 #7
You go ahead and trust the insurance industry to come through, cali. EFerrari Apr 2012 #44
Do you know that Obamacare is also regulating the ins. industry to make them more trustworthy? FarLeftFist Apr 2012 #51
! KG Apr 2012 #53
So goes the fame. I remain skeptical that this bunch of criminals EFerrari Apr 2012 #64
A predatory cartel, with regulation still on the state level, with virtually no enforcement budget, TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #132
I suggest that those who have blind faith in our governments capability unapatriciated Apr 2012 #230
thanks very much! Voice for Peace Apr 2012 #8
Buy insurance or pay a penalty. I suppose you could call it "incentive". Arkansas Granny Apr 2012 #9
The penalty is FAR lower than the cost of an individual premium . . . markpkessinger Apr 2012 #119
For now. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #173
What? You're telling me if you defraud the insurance company they won't pay? rgbecker Apr 2012 #196
It's hard not to feel resentful of people who have good insurance, mandated by the govt., pnwmom Apr 2012 #122
What's changed? adam in oregon Apr 2012 #227
You need to check out the facts before you decide this would be unaffordable for you. pnwmom Apr 2012 #241
Assume the worst. adam in oregon Apr 2012 #245
If you do you're just fear mongering. The new law is nothing like COBRA. n/t pnwmom Apr 2012 #250
Can't convince people of something they don't want to believe NNN0LHI Apr 2012 #10
May not work, but people need some talking points of their own. rgbecker Apr 2012 #13
Democrats need a Karl Rove type that's for sure. xtraxritical Apr 2012 #77
Completely off topic but the crying Indian you reference wasn't even LibDemAlways Apr 2012 #15
Should have been here the day that little factoid was posted NNN0LHI Apr 2012 #16
great post. barbtries Apr 2012 #12
Were you doing that 'Jedi mind trick' hand wave thing as you typed that? Marr Apr 2012 #14
Call it Republican legislation if you can find one Republican who supports it. rgbecker Apr 2012 #19
Can I go back a few short years? Marr Apr 2012 #24
I think the GOP has opted to just lie and hope the lies will be repeated by freedom lovin Democrats. rgbecker Apr 2012 #37
And the EPA was signed into law by Nixon jberryhill Apr 2012 #235
The plan is not based around a mandate to purchase for-profit insurance Orangepeel Apr 2012 #36
Right on. rgbecker Apr 2012 #62
You're wrong. Marr Apr 2012 #67
No I'm not wrong. CareFirst is not for profit Orangepeel Apr 2012 #93
CareFirst is a network not a plan, if you want benefits they tell you to call your plan TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #134
Non-profit ownership does not guarantee accountability. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #175
Hawai'i's dominant insurer is nonprofit KamaAina Apr 2012 #244
Where are you? KamaAina Apr 2012 #243
for profit marshall gaines Apr 2012 #43
Luckily the Jedi mind trick does not work on insect type sentient species Dragonfli Apr 2012 #144
Yeah, it's one of those "optional mandates". JoeyT Apr 2012 #17
I'm still waiting with my checkbook. rgbecker Apr 2012 #23
Then you'd better pay that fine if you don't get insurance. JoeyT Apr 2012 #94
+1 Poll_Blind Apr 2012 #30
Where in the law does it say if you don't pay the fine you go to jail? kestrel91316 Apr 2012 #74
People have gone to jail rudycantfail Apr 2012 #198
Of course you go to jail if you don't pay taxes!! riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #199
Actually, unless you defraud the government, there is virtually no possibility of jail time. rgbecker Apr 2012 #217
YUP ... its actually similar to the home mortgage deduction. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #20
Why IS health care interstate commerce? That's part of the problem, not the solution. saras Apr 2012 #34
Your point is irrelevant to the question at hand. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #148
because you can get sick in any State. quaker bill Apr 2012 #179
It's similar to the home mortgage deduction, except completely different. hughee99 Apr 2012 #95
+1 TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #136
Stir, Stir, Stir. rgbecker Apr 2012 #139
+1 JoePhilly Apr 2012 #147
"The banking industry is interstate commerce but congress can't force everyone to keep their money Dragonfli Apr 2012 #149
If you keep your money in a bank, the government taxes your dividends. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #151
neat post, too bad it has nothing at all to do with what I posted /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #154
Ok ... try this ... JoePhilly Apr 2012 #172
Maybe all they need is for the SCOTUS to find that the individual mandate is OK. freedom fighter jh Apr 2012 #153
If they overturn it, it just a "small step" to say that the government can't force you to JoePhilly Apr 2012 #157
There's a difference. freedom fighter jh Apr 2012 #162
Not really. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #167
Look, even the administration disagrees with you on this one.. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #183
Might I suggest a new law "The Affordable Transactions Act" Dragonfli Apr 2012 #159
If you were good at this ... you'd indicate which parts of the Constitution prevent JoePhilly Apr 2012 #170
If you were good at this YOU WOULD DO THAT, it was my proposal, why would I be Dragonfli Apr 2012 #185
Riiiight GirlinContempt Apr 2012 #209
But I think your proposal was Constitutional. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #248
The point that just keeps flying way over you head, what really matters Dragonfli Apr 2012 #254
Actually, the OP is about the Constitutionality of the law. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #256
Pay attention to what I responded to, hint, it wasn't the OP. And Dragonfli Apr 2012 #257
First, if no one buys insurance everyone's tax does go up, no? JoePhilly Apr 2012 #150
I don't need to keep my money in a bank to "participate" in the banking industry either. hughee99 Apr 2012 #155
Can you tell me what specific limits you see in the commerce clause? JoePhilly Apr 2012 #156
I would certinly not consider forcing everyone to engage in interstate commerce hughee99 Apr 2012 #160
Sure ... but as I said earlier, you can not be forced to participate in something JoePhilly Apr 2012 #163
So what happens if I don't get hit by a car? hughee99 Apr 2012 #178
Which freedoms will it cost us? rgbecker Apr 2012 #195
I was thinking about the danger of setting a legal precedent hughee99 Apr 2012 #242
"And, if you have no insurance your treatment costs are passed on to everyone else." girl gone mad Apr 2012 #203
You have still done nothing to debate the CONSTITUTIONALITY of the bill. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #247
The hospital's loss got passed on to the government.. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #251
You are wrong. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #252
Insurers are still free to remove sick people using the fraud provisions. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #253
Nicely put. rgbecker Apr 2012 #194
forced commerce adam in oregon Apr 2012 #228
Everyone already participates in the health care market. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #260
Who determins who can afford health insurance? 1monster Apr 2012 #22
That's all well and fine when you have a cold or a rash Tobin S. Apr 2012 #28
If the insurance companies can't provide coverage for 8.5% of income.... rgbecker Apr 2012 #29
Subsidies will be given for families up to 400% of the poverty level dragonlady Apr 2012 #40
An 8.5% premium is one quarter the cost of what we have been offered for standard 80/20 1monster Apr 2012 #55
Is your state working under the Obamacare rules yet? rgbecker Apr 2012 #66
Yes, it will be on a sliding scale. subterranean Apr 2012 #59
For the sake of argument, let's say that's true. Marr Apr 2012 #76
I have been to too many funerals of people that did not have HC. I like the plan. Granted appleannie1 Apr 2012 #25
Bullshit it doesn't. Either you buy health insurance or you're fined. nt Poll_Blind Apr 2012 #27
Still waiting to hear how paying a fine is the same a buying insurance. rgbecker Apr 2012 #46
That's because nobody claimed that paying a fine is the same as buying insurance. Just you. nt Poll_Blind Apr 2012 #50
...huh? Marr Apr 2012 #65
Read it again. rgbecker Apr 2012 #71
The *law* says you will be *fined*. Marr Apr 2012 #80
So your claim is that the law says Doctor_J Apr 2012 #182
It's NOT the same Maven Apr 2012 #186
believe marshall gaines Apr 2012 #31
Thank you so VERY MUCH!!! Gman Apr 2012 #32
Guaranteed Health Care In Iraq - But Not For You MinisterMelinda Apr 2012 #38
Wolfowitz said the whole thing was going to be paid for with Iraqi oil! rgbecker Apr 2012 #49
The Ultimate Gift to Insurance Corporations earthside Apr 2012 #39
Long term strategy denvine Apr 2012 #41
Mandate: obxhead Apr 2012 #42
Sorry, Big difference. It is not breaking the law to not buy insurance. rgbecker Apr 2012 #57
The mandate is part of a law. obxhead Apr 2012 #69
You could get work at Fox News. rgbecker Apr 2012 #78
You make a hell of a lot of accusations for someone who's wrong all the time. Marr Apr 2012 #82
i was wondering when the insults would start. KG Apr 2012 #85
"No where in the ACA is there a requirement that you buy insurance." obxhead Apr 2012 #92
Fox News???? Really, when you are redefining the entire legal system in order to make a stupid claim TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #141
So now we buy into the GOP talking point that the tax system is a system of penalties. rgbecker Apr 2012 #143
Sure don't. You are the one saying taxes and penalties are the same thing. TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #224
Shhh. We're trying to create our own reality here. n/t pa28 Apr 2012 #104
Apparently. nt obxhead Apr 2012 #109
I do believe there are R's in DU Phlem Apr 2012 #47
Welcome to the new DU! nt woo me with science Apr 2012 #101
And laws against murder don't FORCE you to not murder, right? MNBrewer Apr 2012 #54
either buy insurance or get fined.. am I wrong? mdmc Apr 2012 #56
no, you're not wrong, tho you will be informed that you are. KG Apr 2012 #63
thanks for the reply KG mdmc Apr 2012 #72
You're right, but you still won't have insurance. rgbecker Apr 2012 #79
I have health insurance through my employer mdmc Apr 2012 #83
Good luck rgbecker. This thread has turned into one where almost no one gets your point. SmellyFeet Apr 2012 #225
What do all the relevant players want in terms of health care? tularetom Apr 2012 #58
This is the most accurate assessment to date. Thanks. canoeist52 Apr 2012 #89
I had to come back. earthside Apr 2012 #96
Obamacare? tooeyeten Apr 2012 #60
Obama says he likes it: Obama Cares rgbecker Apr 2012 #81
But it is not "affordable" 1monster Apr 2012 #97
if we what called it what it is it would be "Affordable Insurance Act" and the affordable is not Dragonfli Apr 2012 #164
totally disengenuous.... mike_c Apr 2012 #68
Nice analogy if it were true. There are a lot more penalties to breaking traffic laws. rgbecker Apr 2012 #88
Now when we talk about war, we're really talkin' about peace. Marr Apr 2012 #73
Both parties think 1984 was a manual it would seem Dragonfli Apr 2012 #165
What, in your mind, would constitute "forcing one to buy health insurance?" ChadwickHenryWard Apr 2012 #86
Well there are a lot of options. rgbecker Apr 2012 #90
Why didn't they characterize it as.... Nye Bevan Apr 2012 #99
Are you proposing these together or as an either-or? rgbecker Apr 2012 #118
Mandate or Tax??? SoutherDem Apr 2012 #103
What we call it isn't important but what it is and how it is codified. TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #142
Your post is one of the most Orwellian speak I have ever seen on DU former9thward Apr 2012 #106
Look, this speeding analogy doesn't have traction. rgbecker Apr 2012 #123
I'm an extremely high cost Medicare / Medicaid client. pinto Apr 2012 #110
In White House language it's the "personal responsibility provision". pa28 Apr 2012 #115
Let's look at it another way kudzu22 Apr 2012 #124
That's a good one! rgbecker Apr 2012 #127
whatever you want to call it, its shit quinnox Apr 2012 #128
How many of the 125 respondees in this thread currently don't carry insurance frazzled Apr 2012 #129
Good question. SmellyFeet Apr 2012 #229
Like KG said in their response number one: truedelphi Apr 2012 #138
It's still a shit plan. n/t bluedigger Apr 2012 #140
It also relies on discriminatory tax law language. Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #158
Mandated insurance simplesimon Apr 2012 #161
"the GOP talking point repeated here on DU again and again" Just one?? n/t retread Apr 2012 #166
the fine is higher than the fine for drug posession or dirivng under the influence. robinlynne Apr 2012 #174
And I thought our Cirque du Soleil folks were flexible. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #181
Another GOP talking point that you could put an end to..... radarluv Apr 2012 #197
The problem is that in America, we have health insurance first and health care second. progressoid Apr 2012 #201
Some people support Obamacare because Puzzledtraveller Apr 2012 #202
Double taxation busteddrum Apr 2012 #205
The Heritage Foundation thanks you for your support of their brainchild. Zalatix Apr 2012 #210
The Heritage Foundation sucks. rgbecker Apr 2012 #218
They invented the individual mandate in 1989, and supported it publicly for years. They only spoke HiPointDem Apr 2012 #220
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is the correct name for the law GreydeeThos Apr 2012 #213
Obama has embraced "Obamacare", People know what it means..... rgbecker Apr 2012 #214
It's a penalty not a tax or so said the Obama administration. dkf Apr 2012 #226
I was against the Individual Mandate and Still Against it... Xyzse Apr 2012 #231
Nice post, Zeke. AzDar Apr 2012 #233
Unrec...so, you don't buy it and you get fined... joeybee12 Apr 2012 #234
You are just not getting the Olympic level semantic contortion or you would know Dragonfli Apr 2012 #258
Uhhhh, this is DU you're trying to peddle that crap to. Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2012 #238
Great picture.... rgbecker Apr 2012 #246
It’s Not an Individual Mandate—It’s an Individual Penalty DennisBrault Apr 2012 #239
States do this with auto insurance - TBF Apr 2012 #255
there was more demonization of it when Obama was against it Enrique Apr 2012 #240
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»It time to put an end to ...»Reply #86