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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
33. I find it easier to believe the NSA is lying.
Tue Jun 3, 2014, 04:08 PM
Jun 2014

What is left of the Bill of Rights?

The Fourth Amendment states:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fourth_amendment

What is left of that when the government, without satisfying the warrant requirements of the Fourth Amendment? The FISA court's orders are at least as overreaching as the general warrants called Writs of Assistance that played such a big role in angering colonial Americans to the point that they revolted.

Malcom Affair

A writ of assistance was used in an incident known as the "Malcom Affair", which was described by legal scholar William Cuddihy as "the most famous search in colonial America."[9] The episode demonstrated a fundamental difference between the colonists' view of their rights and the official British view of imperial law. "The Malcom affair was a minor matter, a comedy of blundering revenue officers and barricaded colonials," wrote legal historian John Phillip Reid, "but were we to dismiss it in haste we might run the risk of dismissing much of the story of the American Revolution."[10]

On 24 September 1766, customs officials in Boston, with a deputy sheriff, searched merchant Daniel Malcom's home, which was also his place of business. They claimed the authority to do so by a writ of assistance issued to customs official Benjamin Hallowell, and the information of a confidential informant.[11] Malcom allowed them to search, but denied them access to a locked cellar, arguing that they did not have the legal authority to break it open. According to customs officials, Malcom threatened to use force to prevent them from opening the door; according to Malcom and his supporters, his threat specified resisting any unlawful forced entry.[12]

The officials left and returned with a specific search warrant, only to find that Malcom had locked his house.[13] A crowd supportive of Malcom had gathered around the house; Tories claimed that this "mob" numbered 300 or more people and was hostile to the customs officers, while Whigs insisted that this was a peaceful gathering of about 50 curious onlookers, mostly boys.[14] No violence occurred, but reports written by Governor Francis Bernard and the customs officials created the impression in Britain that a riot had taken place.[15] The incident furthered Boston's reputation in Britain as a lawless town controlled by "mobs", a reputation that would contribute to the government's decision to send troops in 1768.[16]

Although British officials, and some historians, described Malcom as acting in defiance of the law, John Phillip Reid argued that Malcom's actions were lawful—so precisely lawful, in fact, that Reid speculated that Malcom may have been acting under the advice of his lawyer, James Otis. According to Reid, Malcom and Otis may have been attempting to provoke a lawsuit so that they could once again "challenge the validity of writs of assistance" in court.[17] This was one of several incidents when a Boston merchant resisted a search with a seemingly exact knowledge of the law; John Hancock would act in a similar manner when customs officials attempted to search his ship Lydia in 1768.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writ_of_assistance

See also:

A Writ of Assistance is a written order issued by a court instructing a law enforcement official to perform a certain task. In the area of customs, Writs of Assistance were first authorized by an act of the English Parliament in 1660 and were issued by the Court of Exchequer to help customs officials search for smuggled goods. These writs were called "Writs of Assistance" because they called upon sheriffs, other officials, and loyal subjects to "assist" the customs official in carrying out his duties.

In colonial America, customs Writs of Assistance served as general search warrants that did not expire, allowing customs officials to search anywhere for smuggled goods without having to obtain a specific warrant. These writs were issued by courts in British America in the 1760s. The oppressive nature of these General Writs of Assistance inspired the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which forbids general search warrants in the United States. Thus once again, the founders, whether by luck or phenomenal insight, provided yet another restraint on governmental overreach.

Thus, the NSA domestic spying programs are merely a modern day equivalent of Writs of Assistance and since generalized blanket search warrants are forbidden by the 4th Amendment, the NSA programs are prima fascie unconstitutional.

http://www.scsun-news.com/ci_23721921



Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The NSA could have released that email a year ago MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #1
I find it much easier to believe that the GG, the ES & the PO are continuing to lie like crazy. Whisp Jun 2014 #3
I find it easier to believe the NSA is lying. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #33
Thank you for that 4th Amendment history - I was not aware closeupready Jun 2014 #38
Why should they release anything? Given that Mr. Snowden has charges pending in the federal docket, msanthrope Jun 2014 #12
Then why release the email they released? MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #15
because that email had Nothing to do with what Snowden promised. Whisp Jun 2014 #36
I have no idea. I would not have released it. But his attorneys can release what they wish. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #42
Maybe because it's evidence of nothing. And relevant to nothing. randome Jun 2014 #43
Snowdedn "seems to have" a problem with the truth? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2014 #2
Oh, don't exaggerate. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #105
Long worded 'Kill the Messenger' fallacy AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #4
I evaluate both the messenger and the message. Both are faulty and stevenleser Jun 2014 #16
So you don't believe that the NSA spied on us? AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #20
The NSA illegally destroyed the records Fred Drum Jun 2014 #26
As usual, Snowden fans have mischaracterized things. stevenleser Jun 2014 #46
Does AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #49
You'll forgive us if we don't all fall in line with the authoritarians. L0oniX Jun 2014 #82
Well if the NSA said that in a press release JackRiddler Jun 2014 #111
Liar Eddie kills his own damn message. Cha Jun 2014 #70
This is why after one time, I no longer will make the effort to listen.. MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #5
Once was enough for me bahrbearian Jun 2014 #13
My target audience is the reality based community, not Snowden/Greenwald sycophants stevenleser Jun 2014 #19
"...like they just came down from a chat with a burning bush." randome Jun 2014 #22
Is that why you go on Fox News? Union Scribe Jun 2014 #30
+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2014 #51
LMFAO ...yea that. Lots of reality base going on there. Birds of a feather I guess. L0oniX Jun 2014 #81
Thanks for exposing yourself by deeming those who don't share your view as brown nosers... MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #37
I don't blame him, he needs more airtime on Fox Dragonfli Jun 2014 #56
"Can't fault a person for needing to eat…" MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #58
I would never personaly resort to such a dishonorable profession to live Dragonfli Jun 2014 #62
I hope we are all in a position within a few more years to embrace the good... MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #78
The Libertarian right is on your and Snowdens side they love that this is a stevenleser Jun 2014 #87
"Ed Snowden, Russian TV star, hands Putin a propaganda coup" JackRiddler Jun 2014 #109
How silly! And Peter King agrees with you. neverforget Jun 2014 #114
Birth? JackRiddler Jun 2014 #106
Ooof! Doctor! MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #116
Snowden couldn't name one thing the NSA has done that is illegal. Not one. randome Jun 2014 #6
Yeah, sure... MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #7
Well, I wouldn't take Snowden's word for anything. The man is a thief. randome Jun 2014 #8
If you want an objective reason, you can start with this one... MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #14
What is the proof? randome Jun 2014 #17
maybe you should ask the EFF Fred Drum Jun 2014 #27
They only have supposition but I would still trust them more than Snowden. randome Jun 2014 #28
"EFF to Court: There's No Doubt the Government Destroyed NSA Spying Evidence…" MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #39
Authoritarians have no interest in evidence AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #57
That's the standard authoritarian reply AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #55
You realize that its illegal for the NSA to spy on American citizens mudy waters Jun 2014 #18
I do. Where is the proof that they are violating this law? randome Jun 2014 #21
You'll never get through to them. Union Scribe Jun 2014 #32
I know. It's just mental exercise, at this point. randome Jun 2014 #34
You have been given proof in a plethora of threads. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2014 #52
No, it's not. You, like Snowden, are practicing Constitutional law without training. stevenleser Jun 2014 #48
Snowden is like those idiots who send hatemail to DU for T/Sing them and talk about how stevenleser Jun 2014 #23
Thank goodness I was afraid I'd missed it. Union Scribe Jun 2014 #9
Ah yes, "I am not a spy." ucrdem Jun 2014 #10
With much thanks to Iching Carpenter for this reminder and huge chunk of wisdom ... Aerows Jun 2014 #11
Nah SnowGlen didn't "like" what was goin on so they decided to bust airThang wide open... you know uponit7771 Jun 2014 #24
WTF?? Anybody?? elias49 Jun 2014 #45
I assumed he fell asleep on the keyboard Union Scribe Jun 2014 #54
IOWs - "... I have a narrow cultural range of friends..." uponit7771 Jun 2014 #61
Here are some other sources for you since you don't trust Snowden: Cerridwen Jun 2014 #25
He must have suckered the ACLU, and other civil liberties groups, free press organizations, Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #29
Confessions of their character Aerows Jun 2014 #31
You want to bring up character, do you? Whisp Jun 2014 #35
Well this post says a lot about your character. nt laundry_queen Jun 2014 #60
If the answer to the first half of question one is "yes," then the rest is justified. morningfog Jun 2014 #40
What if the little jerk didn't actually take Anything... Whisp Jun 2014 #41
According to this org map of NSA divisions, GC does NOT have a compliance and oversight division. Luminous Animal Jun 2014 #44
Stephen, it's more complicated than that. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #47
It is more complicated than that, but not in the way you are asserting. stevenleser Jun 2014 #50
Supreme Court decisions are not the eternal law. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #53
It's not a supreme court decision. It's dozens of appellate decisions that the Supreme Court stevenleser Jun 2014 #65
The technology today makes the facts very different. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #69
No, none of what you just wrote is correct. stevenleser Jun 2014 #102
Sorry. The job of the appellate courts is to follow the precedents set out by the JDPriestly Jun 2014 #103
Here is some more helpful information for you. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #64
See my #65 above. nt stevenleser Jun 2014 #66
The essential thing to remember is that neither the Constitution nor the JDPriestly Jun 2014 #79
So much distortion and speculation here that it's hard to know where to begin. Vattel Jun 2014 #59
ummmm, Snowden "... I'm not a spy..." quote uponit7771 Jun 2014 #63
Funny. Feinstein & Rodgers agree that he is not a spy for Russia. Which is what Snowden was asserted Luminous Animal Jun 2014 #68
He said he was not a spy, he didn't say for whom... and yeah, the email thing is a open shut uponit7771 Jun 2014 #72
Oh, please this is pathetic. Vattel Jun 2014 #74
On the edit, it's the "Russia" conversation where he said he wasn't a spy not the China one.... uponit7771 Jun 2014 #75
Brian Williams pressed Snowden to specify something the NSA had done that was illegal. randome Jun 2014 #83
LOL, ok! nt Logical Jun 2014 #67
I see the little Eddie "I am not a spy" Eddie/wouldn't lie-brigrade is here to defend their "hero".. Cha Jun 2014 #71
Needing more Fox news airtime? Katashi_itto Jun 2014 #73
Conservatives love Snowdens allegations as they love anything that hurts Obama. stevenleser Jun 2014 #76
So it's nothing to do with the fact NSA violated the 4th Katashi_itto Jun 2014 #77
All appellate decisions are on the other side of where you are stevenleser Jun 2014 #86
I do not get this mission Aerows Jun 2014 #95
It doesn't violate the fourth amendment. stevenleser Jun 2014 #99
Trying to link yourself to EarlG Aerows Jun 2014 #100
I wasn't linking myself to EarlG I was linking you to those who send him hatemail stevenleser Jun 2014 #101
Thanks, I appreciate Aerows Jun 2014 #110
"those who love Snowden and Greenwald are the ones angling for a spot on Conservative media" LMFAO L0oniX Jun 2014 #85
And people on Fux news Aerows Jun 2014 #89
You thought Right bobduca Jun 2014 #91
Shockingly false. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #112
Approve of the NSA huh? ...then people don't deserve the freedom they have... L0oniX Jun 2014 #80
alternate show names? bobduca Jun 2014 #84
I vote for "The O'Leser Factor" JackRiddler Jun 2014 #113
You can kill the messenger Aerows Jun 2014 #88
I can and did skewer the hopelessly flawed message stevenleser Jun 2014 #90
Why? Aerows Jun 2014 #92
Because it is hopelessly flawed and incorrect. stevenleser Jun 2014 #93
How? Aerows Jun 2014 #94
This should be enough to get you started stevenleser Jun 2014 #96
Oh boy Aerows Jun 2014 #97
Like all my opinions, it's properly sourced stevenleser Jun 2014 #98
Aaaaaaawwww... JackRiddler Jun 2014 #115
But But But HangOnKids Jun 2014 #117
Yeah, it's totally courageous. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #118
READ Greenwald's book, everyone. It disabuses the OP of all this arduous case building. nt ancianita Jun 2014 #104
To expect normal people to think one side is lying and the other is the pillar of truth, is insanity Rex Jun 2014 #107
Agreed. ancianita Jun 2014 #108
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