General Discussion

alarimer

(17,146 posts)

1. I believe in disinfection through sunshine.

Reply to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Tue Jun 3, 2014, 06:25 PM

Jun 2014

Very, very little needs to be secret. They do it to avoid accountability.

I think the founding fathers would be horrified at the level of deceit practiced over the years by our government.

After all, "if they're not doing something wrong, what have they got to hide?"

I do not believe our representatives are good enough or smart enough or knowledgeable enough to do it properly.

Yes, you are correct in that there has not been nearly enough oversight, but the main problem is the abuse of the system by people who would be very happy if this were a dictatorship. I believe most of the military-secrecy complex is composed of fascists at heart, those who do not really believe in democracy "of the people, by the people, for the people" but who really love having all that power.

The system is corrupt, top to bottom and needs a good airing out.

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I know this will, forever, brand me the NSA Defending, lackey of authoritarianism; but ... [View all] 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 OP

I believe in disinfection through sunshine. alarimer Jun 2014 #1

And yet they do nothing with that power. randome Jun 2014 #4

They've assassinated American citizens without due process for one. alarimer Jun 2014 #21

Yes, that sounds like Republicans, all right. randome Jun 2014 #29

NSA=Republican billhicks76 Jun 2014 #158

we need intelligence agencies, but they need to be on a much shorter leash. dionysus Jun 2014 #61

Unbelievable Link Today billhicks76 Jun 2014 #160

yikes. dionysus Jun 2014 #165

US Marshalls AKA Judicial Dept police AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #176

What Would They Do If We Ditched Our Cell Phones? billhicks76 Jun 2014 #180

This nation never armed Bin Laden, never trained him, never did anything including him. Ikonoklast Jun 2014 #75

Thank you. lumpy Jun 2014 #103

so tell us who Tim Osman was then? wildbilln864 Jun 2014 #142

The product of some 911 Truther's (actually two of them) fevered imagination would be my guess. hack89 Jun 2014 #191

maybe so or maybe no... wildbilln864 Jun 2014 #194

We know the CIA funneled arms and money through the ISI hack89 Jun 2014 #196

Very very little needs to be a secret? We live in a complicated, dangerous world. pnwmom Jun 2014 #10

Yep ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #16

Oh geez... gcomeau Jun 2014 #11

+1. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #17

Mind numblingly absurd is right. Whisp Jun 2014 #23

And yet the "horrified" founding fathers ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #14

+++1,000 nt kelliekat44 Jun 2014 #81

I agree Aerows Jun 2014 #99

Enough sunshine will kill everything, not just the infection. Don't forget that. nt stevenleser Jun 2014 #105

That's like really deep, man. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #107

I'm not the one who started the analogy. I'm using the commenters own analogy. stevenleser Jun 2014 #109

No, no, man. You like changed the way I see things. You've opened my eyes. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #111

You're still attacking me for another person's analogy? LMAO, welcome to my ignore list. nt stevenleser Jun 2014 #112

Oh, my mistake. Is there someone else named stevenleser here who made post 105? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #121

Yes, a random imposter did it AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #177

His prose is literally a Breakfast of Champions. Katashi_itto Jun 2014 #184

I had to laugh at that expression malokvale77 Jun 2014 #118

Exactly...Secrecy Breeds Corruption billhicks76 Jun 2014 #117

Nailed it! thank you! wildbilln864 Jun 2014 #144

Everyone Here Talks About Infiltrators billhicks76 Jun 2014 #146

not at all. you're spot on again AFAICT. n/t wildbilln864 Jun 2014 #151

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025046363#post9 billhicks76 Jun 2014 #159

Our security agencies should not be violating the 4th amendment, PERIOD!! cascadiance Jun 2014 #173

Wise words from a man who knows how to ski. JJChambers Jun 2014 #2

Huh? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #19

I think he meant Aerows Jun 2014 #100

The failure is only 'perceived'? It is not absolute and undeniable? Vincardog Jun 2014 #3

I don't believe that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #22

I'm sorry 1SBM malokvale77 Jun 2014 #124

Welcome to the political reality ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #136

I have been in the political reality... malokvale77 Jun 2014 #148

nice post, hitler. arely staircase Jun 2014 #5

Per Internet Rules ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #25

nuh uh arely staircase Jun 2014 #38

LOL. eom 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #114

So Cozy and Snug billhicks76 Jun 2014 #154

How can you hold them to account if you don't even know what they are doing? dawg Jun 2014 #6

A representative democracy does not work via mass votes or opinion polls. randome Jun 2014 #18

But how can we even make an informed vote when we aren't being told what's being done ... dawg Jun 2014 #24

I don't know. Maybe DEMAND that our representatives give us reports? randome Jun 2014 #31

And when someone is caught lying to Congress, what then? dawg Jun 2014 #32

Then it's up to Congress to decide what to do. randome Jun 2014 #36

Wrong. dawg Jun 2014 #39

Eh. So far as I know, the law says Congress must decide that they've been lied to. randome Jun 2014 #51

Nice try. dawg Jun 2014 #53

'Lie with impunity' is an inaccurate soundbite. randome Jun 2014 #83

He faced no consequences for his lie. I doubt he feared any. dawg Jun 2014 #85

Most? Who is this mythical most? raindaddy Jun 2014 #125

It is all for our own good malokvale77 Jun 2014 #130

You know, they're talking about having an adversarial rep on FISA cases. randome Jun 2014 #34

Because if the "people's rep" reported something the government didn't want reported ... dawg Jun 2014 #37

Not if the people's rep was an official position. randome Jun 2014 #45

We wouldn't even be having this conversation had he not done so. dawg Jun 2014 #50

You know why this won't work ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #59

they deceive the oversight committee already!! grasswire Jun 2014 #67

If oversight is not the solution and disbanding all intelligence agencies is not the solution... randome Jun 2014 #80

Put an end to blanket data gathering on U.S. citizens. dawg Jun 2014 #88

massive funding cuts grasswire Jun 2014 #169

Thank you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #30

But they are deceiving those who are tasked with oversight. grasswire Jun 2014 #7

Thank you for that. vlakitti Jun 2014 #56

I won't brand you a "lackey of authoritarianism" but will respectfully disagree... mike_c Jun 2014 #8

Thank you for the reasoned response ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #42

Greetings to a lackey from a right-wing troll. Jim Lane Jun 2014 #193

NSA repeatedly misled Congress and the courts MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #9

It's apparently fine with Congress and the courts, too! randome Jun 2014 #15

Mind blowing, but true. nt MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #20

Hey, I'd give you a trial run at least. randome Jun 2014 #54

"Trial run"? MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #69

At being in charge of determining what to keep secret and what to reveal. randome Jun 2014 #79

...and apparently fine with many here. L0oniX Jun 2014 #52

I don't think it makes you a permanent authoritarian... Shandris Jun 2014 #12

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2014 #96

Part of my problem is they're farming so much of the work out octoberlib Jun 2014 #13

I agree about the private contracting ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #44

There is a difference between policy and practice. Pholus Jun 2014 #26

If I understand you correctly ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #48

I strongly disagree that we DO know. Pholus Jun 2014 #181

But they're not accountable - not to our representatives and certainly not to us riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #27

Yes, but they are also supposed to respect the Fourth Amendment BainsBane Jun 2014 #28

Sorry kid Android3.14 Jun 2014 #33

Does your mommy ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #55

Not to worry. DeadLetterOffice Jun 2014 #113

My bad Android3.14 Jun 2014 #120

No, your calling a 53 year old man "kid", amuses me ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #131

On - vvv this vvv- I will agree malokvale77 Jun 2014 #137

The Ending Secret Law Act would allow transparancy. joshcryer Jun 2014 #35

The FISA court currently is a joke... It needs more transparency as well and oversight. cascadiance Jun 2014 #167

It's really the nexus for the MIC. joshcryer Jun 2014 #171

It's always good to know thyself. WinkyDink Jun 2014 #40

And it is best ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #60

Be honest with me and with yourself. dawg Jun 2014 #41

I am always honest with myself ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #62

If that's what you say. dawg Jun 2014 #64

They problem is that since 9-11 they gave up their oversight Armstead Jun 2014 #43

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #63

I'd rather abandon HS but short of that.... Armstead Jun 2014 #170

Yes, they should just rename it the Sicherheitsdienst and be done with the pretense [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2014 #161

ever think critics could be right? MisterP Jun 2014 #46

"Our form of government has always been an exercise in faith" OFFS L0oniX Jun 2014 #47

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #65

Why are we giving multiple billions of dollars to private corporations baldguy Jun 2014 #49

I agree. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #68

I believe you are wrong about that. grasswire Jun 2014 #72

I'll believe that when they start denouncing Rand Paul instead of supporting him. baldguy Jun 2014 #74

I'm sorry. Who are you talking about? grasswire Jun 2014 #76

You'll never get an answer whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #139

Just as I was about to agree with something... malokvale77 Jun 2014 #145

Claiming ignorance? That's rich. baldguy Jun 2014 #149

That is all well and good... malokvale77 Jun 2014 #150

* crickets * MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #156

"they" malokvale77 Jun 2014 #157

No? Well�. this calls for a song... MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #166

Thank you for that malokvale77 Jun 2014 #172

That faith has long been lost through their actions or inaction. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #57

You are living in a dream world, I guess you also believe the police.... Logical Jun 2014 #58

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #71

I guess they are mostly about that. But I still do not trust them. And should not trust the NSA! n-t Logical Jun 2014 #82

There are very few entities or people that I trust ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #119

Not trusting is not fearing. I think your OP is gullible. n-t Logical Jun 2014 #122

I can live with that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #133

No it is not. They have lied many times. And will continue to do so. n-t Logical Jun 2014 #135

Like I said ... Fear based. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #140

Like I said, Reality based. nt Logical Jun 2014 #141

The government is corrupt and faith is for fools whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #66

So why are you on a Democratic political message board? eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #73

Why not? Or are you trying to stifle discussion if it doesn't go your way? nt riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #77

Because I'm a democrat whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #132

No, but you have to believe in the political system. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #138

I still vote as I have no other voice whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #143

America has always been an Oligarchy ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #183

The source of the problem is that the NSA & CIA are operating independently of the political system. Maedhros Jun 2014 #162

bs PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #182

K&R Dr Hobbitstein Jun 2014 #70

Actually, our form of government has never been an exercise in faith. merrily Jun 2014 #78

Imagine what he could have done with PRISM and Boundless Informant. dawg Jun 2014 #93

The &@*# did enough with index card technology and phone taps. merrily Jun 2014 #102

You finished with mentioning accountability which, incidentally, doesn't exist for the NSA. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #84

The 215 Section fight is the big fight...and that's 2015. What Congress will we have then? nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #86

I agree; it is not "authoritarian" to treestar Jun 2014 #87

"If they spied on all of us ..." dawg Jun 2014 #92

faith and trust heaven05 Jun 2014 #89

I agree with you. Some Americans are immensely ignorant underthematrix Jun 2014 #90

Kick for whoever was saying they'd never seen anyone defend the NSA riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #98

Feel free to give up your civil rights if that makes YOU feel safe. Maedhros Jun 2014 #164

They spy on us for our own good! AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #174

Read my post #173 in this thread... cascadiance Jun 2014 #175

Magical thinking makes me smile.... Pholus Jun 2014 #188

In other words, BHO was ignorant of or powerless to change stupidicus Jun 2014 #91

snowden is a spy and a traitor. when u work for NSA you must sign an oath underthematrix Jun 2014 #152

thanks for the less than artful, irrelevant, and dishonest dodge stupidicus Jun 2014 #189

The problem isn't that they are secrative AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #94

we'll never be able to trust the spies and the military geek tragedy Jun 2014 #95

Why are the hard liners Aerows Jun 2014 #101

maybe because you're actually listening to what we're saying nt geek tragedy Jun 2014 #106

You are a good person, GT Aerows Jun 2014 #129

That would be my position. Lack of oversight/accountability. Also, a giant money pit. KittyWampus Jun 2014 #97

It is a huge money pit Aerows Jun 2014 #104

You are absolutely correct. yallerdawg Jun 2014 #108

Hah malokvale77 Jun 2014 #153

What secret security state? yallerdawg Jun 2014 #168

? malokvale77 Jun 2014 #178

I don't vote for every representative. yallerdawg Jun 2014 #179

I live in Texas... malokvale77 Jun 2014 #197

Secrets are as antiquated as the internal combustion engine and will be long gone in the future. Lint Head Jun 2014 #110

Sorry I don't have time (or perhaps inclination) to read all the previous replies. IrishAyes Jun 2014 #115

I couldn't disagree with you more....... Swede Atlanta Jun 2014 #116

As I remember, the NSA's charter forbade it from domestic spying. That started alfredo Jun 2014 #123

You said it.. sendero Jun 2014 #126

Self-Appointed Authoritarian - Charged, Convicted And Sentenced - By Your Own Words cantbeserious Jun 2014 #127

I will submit to the keyboard lashings, now. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #186

FYI, anyone who visits DU knows PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #128

give 'em an inch bigtree Jun 2014 #134

Sorry, but I'm not one to put Faith in the Military/National Security aparatus. As an atheist, ... stone space Jun 2014 #147

Two thumbs up to that malokvale77 Jun 2014 #155

Basically I agree that secrecy is sometimes called for. Vattel Jun 2014 #163

Thank you for your reasoned ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #187

Authoritarian now...a few more rationalizations Katashi_itto Jun 2014 #185

I already considered you and your clique as such, but thanks for stating it plainly. /nt Marr Jun 2014 #190

I have no clique. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #192

Though I disagree with you on this etherealtruth Jun 2014 #195