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In reply to the discussion: an open letter to my waiter from your "princessa" [View all]G_j
(40,569 posts)41. Many men don’t see what women experience.
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/05/_yesallwomen_in_the_wake_of_elliot_rodger_why_it_s_so_hard_for_men_to_recognize.html
Men were surprised by #YesAllWomen because men dont see what women experience.
By Amanda Hess
<snip>
Another rude awakening played out on social media this weekend as news of Rodgers attack spread around the world. When women took to Twitter to share their own everyday experiences with men who had reduced them to sexual conquests and threatened them with violence for failing to complyfiling their anecdotes under the hashtag #YesAllWomensome men joined in to express surprise at these revelations, which amassed more quickly than observers could digest. How can some men manage to appear polite, kind, even wonderful in public while perpetuating sexism under the radar of other mens notice? And how could this dynamic be so obvious to so many women, yet completely foreign to the men in their lives? Some #YesAllWomen contributors suggested that men simply arent paying attention to misogyny. Others claimed that they deliberately ignore it. There could also be a performative aspect to this public outpouring of male shocka man who expresses his own lack of awareness of sexism implicitly absolves himself of his own contributions to it.
<snip>
The night after the murders, I was at a backyard party in New York, talking with a female friend, when a drunk man stepped right between us. I was thinking the exact same thing, he said. As we had been discussing pay discrepancies between male and female journalists, we informed him that this was unlikely. But we politely endured him as he dominated our conversation, insisted on hugging me, and talked too long about his obsession with my friends hair. I escaped inside, and my friend followed a few minutes later. The guy had asked for her phone number, and she had declined, informing him that she was married and, by the way, her husband was at the party. Why did I say that? I wouldnt have been interested in him even if I werent married, she told me. Being married was, like, the sixth most pressing reason you werent into him, I said. We agreed that she had said this because aggressive men are more likely to defer to another mans domain than to accept a womans autonomous rejection of him.
<snip>
These are forms of male aggression that only women see. But even when men are afforded a front seat to harassment, they dont always have the correct vantage point for recognizing the subtlety of its operation. Four years before the murders, I was sitting in a bar in Washington, D.C. with a male friend. Another young woman was alone at the bar when an older man scooted next to her. He was aggressive, wasted, and sitting too close, but she smiled curtly at his ramblings and laughed softly at his jokes as she patiently downed her drink. Why is she humoring him? my friend asked me. You would never do that. I was too embarrassed to say: Because he looks scary and I do it all the time.
Women who have experienced this can recognize that placating these men is a rational choice, a form of self-defense to protect against setting off an aggressor. But to male bystanders, it often looks like a warm welcome, and that helps to shift blame in the public eye from the harasser and onto his target, whos failed to respond with the type of masculine bravado that men more easily recognize. Two weeks before the murders, Louis C.K.who has always recognized pervasive male violence against women in his stand-upspelled out how this works in an episode of Louie, where he recalls watching a man and a woman walking together on a date. He goes to kiss her, and she does an amazing thing that women somehow learn how to doshe hugged him very warmly. Men think this is affection, but what this is is a boxing maneuver. Women are better at rejecting us than we are, C.K. said. They have the skills to reject men in the way that we can then not kill them.
..more..
Men were surprised by #YesAllWomen because men dont see what women experience.
By Amanda Hess
<snip>
Another rude awakening played out on social media this weekend as news of Rodgers attack spread around the world. When women took to Twitter to share their own everyday experiences with men who had reduced them to sexual conquests and threatened them with violence for failing to complyfiling their anecdotes under the hashtag #YesAllWomensome men joined in to express surprise at these revelations, which amassed more quickly than observers could digest. How can some men manage to appear polite, kind, even wonderful in public while perpetuating sexism under the radar of other mens notice? And how could this dynamic be so obvious to so many women, yet completely foreign to the men in their lives? Some #YesAllWomen contributors suggested that men simply arent paying attention to misogyny. Others claimed that they deliberately ignore it. There could also be a performative aspect to this public outpouring of male shocka man who expresses his own lack of awareness of sexism implicitly absolves himself of his own contributions to it.
<snip>
The night after the murders, I was at a backyard party in New York, talking with a female friend, when a drunk man stepped right between us. I was thinking the exact same thing, he said. As we had been discussing pay discrepancies between male and female journalists, we informed him that this was unlikely. But we politely endured him as he dominated our conversation, insisted on hugging me, and talked too long about his obsession with my friends hair. I escaped inside, and my friend followed a few minutes later. The guy had asked for her phone number, and she had declined, informing him that she was married and, by the way, her husband was at the party. Why did I say that? I wouldnt have been interested in him even if I werent married, she told me. Being married was, like, the sixth most pressing reason you werent into him, I said. We agreed that she had said this because aggressive men are more likely to defer to another mans domain than to accept a womans autonomous rejection of him.
<snip>
These are forms of male aggression that only women see. But even when men are afforded a front seat to harassment, they dont always have the correct vantage point for recognizing the subtlety of its operation. Four years before the murders, I was sitting in a bar in Washington, D.C. with a male friend. Another young woman was alone at the bar when an older man scooted next to her. He was aggressive, wasted, and sitting too close, but she smiled curtly at his ramblings and laughed softly at his jokes as she patiently downed her drink. Why is she humoring him? my friend asked me. You would never do that. I was too embarrassed to say: Because he looks scary and I do it all the time.
Women who have experienced this can recognize that placating these men is a rational choice, a form of self-defense to protect against setting off an aggressor. But to male bystanders, it often looks like a warm welcome, and that helps to shift blame in the public eye from the harasser and onto his target, whos failed to respond with the type of masculine bravado that men more easily recognize. Two weeks before the murders, Louis C.K.who has always recognized pervasive male violence against women in his stand-upspelled out how this works in an episode of Louie, where he recalls watching a man and a woman walking together on a date. He goes to kiss her, and she does an amazing thing that women somehow learn how to doshe hugged him very warmly. Men think this is affection, but what this is is a boxing maneuver. Women are better at rejecting us than we are, C.K. said. They have the skills to reject men in the way that we can then not kill them.
..more..
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Well that's sad. I'd have to see how the waiter was actually acting, but it's sad.
nolabear
Jun 2014
#2
What you describe sounds creepy to this northerner. To each his own, I guess. nt
pnwmom
Jun 2014
#10
Maybe she just wanted a burger, and didn't want to have to come up with nice ways to tell
Squinch
Jun 2014
#24
Or maybe she just wanted to share the experience because she knows it's a common one.
Squinch
Jun 2014
#32
She wrote about her feelings and her experience - an experience that will resonate with many women.
redqueen
Jun 2014
#38
Friendlys is alcohol-free, BTW. So it would have to be his own personal tequila supply. (nt)
Nye Bevan
Jun 2014
#12
To all those saying, "If she was so bothered, she should have just said something to make him stop!"
Squinch
Jun 2014
#25
Yes exactly. And the women here all seem to understand perfectly that the next step to
Squinch
Jun 2014
#34
exactly. the irritating thing with this thread is total obtuseness or gamesmanship. nt
seabeyond
Jun 2014
#37