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G_j

(40,569 posts)
41. Many men don’t see what women experience.
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 01:42 PM
Jun 2014
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/05/_yesallwomen_in_the_wake_of_elliot_rodger_why_it_s_so_hard_for_men_to_recognize.html

Men were surprised by #YesAllWomen because men don’t see what women experience.

By Amanda Hess

<snip>

Another rude awakening played out on social media this weekend as news of Rodger’s attack spread around the world. When women took to Twitter to share their own everyday experiences with men who had reduced them to sexual conquests and threatened them with violence for failing to comply—filing their anecdotes under the hashtag #YesAllWomen—some men joined in to express surprise at these revelations, which amassed more quickly than observers could digest. How can some men manage to appear polite, kind, even “wonderful” in public while perpetuating sexism under the radar of other men’s notice? And how could this dynamic be so obvious to so many women, yet completely foreign to the men in their lives? Some #YesAllWomen contributors suggested that men simply aren’t paying attention to misogyny. Others claimed that they deliberately ignore it. There could also be a performative aspect to this public outpouring of male shock—a man who expresses his own lack of awareness of sexism implicitly absolves himself of his own contributions to it.

<snip>

The night after the murders, I was at a backyard party in New York, talking with a female friend, when a drunk man stepped right between us. “I was thinking the exact same thing,” he said. As we had been discussing pay discrepancies between male and female journalists, we informed him that this was unlikely. But we politely endured him as he dominated our conversation, insisted on hugging me, and talked too long about his obsession with my friend’s hair. I escaped inside, and my friend followed a few minutes later. The guy had asked for her phone number, and she had declined, informing him that she was married and, by the way, her husband was at the party. “Why did I say that? I wouldn’t have been interested in him even if I weren’t married,” she told me. “Being married was, like, the sixth most pressing reason you weren’t into him,” I said. We agreed that she had said this because aggressive men are more likely to defer to another man’s domain than to accept a woman’s autonomous rejection of him.

<snip>

These are forms of male aggression that only women see. But even when men are afforded a front seat to harassment, they don’t always have the correct vantage point for recognizing the subtlety of its operation. Four years before the murders, I was sitting in a bar in Washington, D.C. with a male friend. Another young woman was alone at the bar when an older man scooted next to her. He was aggressive, wasted, and sitting too close, but she smiled curtly at his ramblings and laughed softly at his jokes as she patiently downed her drink. “Why is she humoring him?” my friend asked me. “You would never do that.” I was too embarrassed to say: “Because he looks scary” and “I do it all the time.”

Women who have experienced this can recognize that placating these men is a rational choice, a form of self-defense to protect against setting off an aggressor. But to male bystanders, it often looks like a warm welcome, and that helps to shift blame in the public eye from the harasser and onto his target, who’s failed to respond with the type of masculine bravado that men more easily recognize. Two weeks before the murders, Louis C.K.—who has always recognized pervasive male violence against women in his stand-up—spelled out how this works in an episode of Louie, where he recalls watching a man and a woman walking together on a date. “He goes to kiss her, and she does an amazing thing that women somehow learn how to do—she hugged him very warmly. Men think this is affection, but what this is is a boxing maneuver.” Women “are better at rejecting us than we are,” C.K. said. “They have the skills to reject men in the way that we can then not kill them.”

..more..

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

No tip, and report him to the manager (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #1
Well that's sad. I'd have to see how the waiter was actually acting, but it's sad. nolabear Jun 2014 #2
I am old and come from a culture of manners REP Jun 2014 #8
Perhaps. But you and I are both assuming. We just assume differently. nolabear Jun 2014 #13
I was just at a place where the motto is, "We Choke Our Own Chickens" REP Jun 2014 #18
What you describe sounds creepy to this northerner. To each his own, I guess. nt pnwmom Jun 2014 #10
Midwesterner, and co-signed REP Jun 2014 #19
Another Midwesterner here. Brigid Jun 2014 #21
good post smackd Jun 2014 #22
Maybe she just wanted a burger, and didn't want to have to come up with nice ways to tell Squinch Jun 2014 #24
Yeah, I know. And she could have mentioned that. nolabear Jun 2014 #31
Or maybe she just wanted to share the experience because she knows it's a common one. Squinch Jun 2014 #32
She wrote about her feelings and her experience - an experience that will resonate with many women. redqueen Jun 2014 #38
Because it's her job to correct his behavior - or not fuss about rude treatment REP Jun 2014 #40
Well said Packerowner740 Jun 2014 #29
You Drink DIET COKE? ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #3
Dear Meagan, enlightenment Jun 2014 #4
And how do you know that saying something won't result in an act of retribution pnwmom Jun 2014 #9
I don't live my life in fear, or enlightenment Jun 2014 #11
Well, that's nice for you. pnwmom Jun 2014 #14
Yes, it is nice, thank you. enlightenment Jun 2014 #16
You wait until the meal is done Packerowner740 Jun 2014 #30
You and me both. Say something, kindly, and take the power. nolabear Jun 2014 #15
Well said LeafsFan17 Jun 2014 #20
It works both ways 1000words Jun 2014 #5
Flirting wasn't the problem A Little Weird Jun 2014 #6
I agree. This guy's flirtation attempt was clumsy and inappropriate. 1000words Jun 2014 #7
Friendlys is alcohol-free, BTW. So it would have to be his own personal tequila supply. (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #12
I was not there. Brigid Jun 2014 #17
Being a man, and not having been there SomethingFishy Jun 2014 #23
To all those saying, "If she was so bothered, she should have just said something to make him stop!" Squinch Jun 2014 #25
Good gods. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #26
There are some sickos out there. I saw it happen. Squinch Jun 2014 #27
And you did nothing about it? woolldog Jun 2014 #42
It comes down to simple math, based on years of experience. KitSileya Jun 2014 #33
Yes exactly. And the women here all seem to understand perfectly that the next step to Squinch Jun 2014 #34
exactly. the irritating thing with this thread is total obtuseness or gamesmanship. nt seabeyond Jun 2014 #37
Exactly, thank you - they are victim blaming and they are enabling this crap. redqueen Jun 2014 #39
I don't like guns but Packerowner740 Jun 2014 #28
When I was young betsuni Jun 2014 #35
Should have talked to his manager. davidthegnome Jun 2014 #36
Many men don’t see what women experience. G_j Jun 2014 #41
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