General Discussion

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

25. So we should be concerned that they are threatening to enforce the law?

Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:56 AM

Jun 2014

A law he obviously broke?

Let's pretend Snowden did not flee the US. Instead, he released the documents to the NY Times. The Espionage Act would not apply. It requires giving the secrets to another country, or receiving compensation from another country for the secrets.

Instead, he fled. And he's received compensation from Russia in return for his leaks. Which makes his case a very clear-cut violation of the Espionage Act.

Btw, specifically what program did Snowden leak that was illegal? Keep in mind all but one program was against non-US persons outside the US, so the Constitution does not apply in those cases.

The one program that did collect on US persons, the phone metadata program, fits comfortably under an overly-broad 1979 SOCTUS decision that made phone metadata not private.

IOW, if you want to fix it, you need Congress to fix it. They didn't break any laws, so we need new laws.

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Snowden signed a non-disclosure agreement to get the Federal security clearance [View all] pnwmom Jun 2014 OP

So did all those army scumbags that have been talking about Bergdahl mwrguy Jun 2014 #1

A lot depends on what the form says yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #16

The bigger issue is what was classified karynnj Jun 2014 #28

They may be in trouble then yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #63

They are disgusting, but this is not the same thing if they are speaking of their karynnj Jun 2014 #27

Of course he did.. but Ellsberg's quote makes Cha Jun 2014 #2

Funny thing about all those government forms... Historic NY Jun 2014 #103

I'd say...... DeSwiss Jun 2014 #3

I have heard he was a frequent user of blinders, tenting over his monitor, guess this should have Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #37

Whistleblowers do that. Helen Borg Jun 2014 #4

If he can't name one thing the NSA does that is illegal, what kind of whistleblowing is that? randome Jun 2014 #6

Nice try, pal. Helen Borg Jun 2014 #7

Words matter. Especially so in matters of illegality. randome Jun 2014 #8

Yawn billhicks76 Jun 2014 #14

Illegal, yep Snowden was illegal in disclosing anything to non authorized people. There are good Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #39

Missing The Point billhicks76 Jun 2014 #118

I have thought for a while this is an evil stunt or conspiracy, time will tell. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #120

"He broke a non-disclosure agreement with a criminal organization." YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #47

Too Broad billhicks76 Jun 2014 #119

"the rest of the country"??? karynnj Jun 2014 #31

If that's the only argument you've seen, you need to read more. Vattel Jun 2014 #123

Your response is nonsense. "65 Things We Know About NSA Surveillance That We Didn't Know a Year Ago" Hissyspit Jun 2014 #20

4. Legal when a foreign suspect contacts someone in America. Would you prefer we ignore it? randome Jun 2014 #22

"O.k. It's illegal. So stop doing it." Nice logic. Hissyspit Jun 2014 #23

Have you ever made a keystroke mistake? If you have then it would be counted as a part of the 2776 Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #40

It could even have been a stored procedure change with an invalid join. randome Jun 2014 #53

This would be a rogue employee and if discovered there would be actions taken. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #54

Eh. It could have been an inadvertent error. Maybe the table names are too close, who knows? randome Jun 2014 #58

Yes it could be an input error but I would like to know if the operator learned of any information Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #81

EXACTLY!!! Also if we ALREADY KNEW what was happening through PREVIOUS reports what the fuck was uponit7771 Jun 2014 #36

Snowden is obviously... nikto Jun 2014 #5

And Your Point Would Be - Snowden Will Always Be A Hero In My Eyes cantbeserious Jun 2014 #9

Hitler was also a hero to many. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #42

Comparing Snowden To Hitler Is A Non Sequitur cantbeserious Jun 2014 #65

Just point out being a hero to some does not make the person a good person or a hero. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #67

4 a.m.? Android3.14 Jun 2014 #10

And? Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #12

That fact does not change the fact he did the nation and the world a huge favor.......... Swede Atlanta Jun 2014 #11

Are you going to be unhappy when it may be your time to start your Social Security. You know they Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #43

In Russia the spy judges you. stonecutter357 Jun 2014 #13

And every government official takes an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States fasttense Jun 2014 #15

Actually, Snowden hasn't leaked any illegal programs. jeff47 Jun 2014 #24

Actually the Constitution does apply to non-US persons. fasttense Jun 2014 #71

US person is not US citizen. jeff47 Jun 2014 #100

The FISA law that allowed this passed first in August 2008 --- when did the Supreme Court karynnj Jun 2014 #32

The Fourth Amendmend allows for searches with a warrant, guess you do not think the Constitution is Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #44

Depends who owns the phone records -- and for decades it has been the phone companies karynnj Jun 2014 #73

Actually wiretapping has required a warrant for many years. Law enforcement has pull the Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #78

Collecting phone records is NOT the same as wiretapping the calls themselves karynnj Jun 2014 #86

onoes! the horror!! PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #17

Not true - and why he has been indicted karynnj Jun 2014 #33

uh, wrong PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #38

You are very wrong, it may not in the positions in which you have held but it is if you work for Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #45

Sorry, you are wrong PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #48

Have you heard about charges of espionage against Snowden? Have you heard he is "afraid" of Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #52

That is not what the thread is about PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #55

I did not bring up contract law. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #64

oh jeez, that is what the OP is about, non-disclosure agreement. PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #66

When the disclosure is a criminal offense then it carries penalties and or fines. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #72

has zero to do with a non-disclosure agreement. n/t PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #79

It may not matter to the non disclosures you are associated with but as you see it has made a Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #102

Eh? PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #104

Then why are you arguing the non disclosure does not make any difference. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #106

The NDA had ZERO to do with any espionage charges. n/t PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #107

What do you know about the non disclosure involving the NSA? Have you read it? If you Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #108

It could say anything anyone wants to put in it. PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #109

Does that mean it's okay if you stole national security documents and fled the country? randome Jun 2014 #110

ianal, but I know you can not prosecute based on an NDA breach. PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #112

that has nothing to do with NDA grasswire Jun 2014 #85

Are you an expert on every non disclosure? Apparently not. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #105

Not true for classified US information karynnj Jun 2014 #56

It does not matter PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #59

so what sdougreid Jun 2014 #18

What crime has Snowden exposed, at this point only his crime. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #46

People lie all the time to get jobs. bemildred Jun 2014 #19

Non-disclosure agreements are bullshit. Hissyspit Jun 2014 #21

So we should be concerned that they are threatening to enforce the law? jeff47 Jun 2014 #25

Um, yeah. Hissyspit Jun 2014 #121

So ignoring the law here is good jeff47 Jun 2014 #122

Would you want your bank, credit card, medical, communications provider to release your information? Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #49

No. Hissyspit Jun 2014 #111

+100000000 woo me with science Jun 2014 #98

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #26

OMG - the Holocaust is equivalent to the government having my phone records!!! karynnj Jun 2014 #35

It has to do with promises by government employees to maintain silence Trajan Jun 2014 #57

You are the one in the Godwin nonsense karynnj Jun 2014 #62

You're the one who entered the "Godwin Nonsense" into the freaking snowden Cha Jun 2014 #130

Oh, bull. Despicable here is pretending a non-disclosure agreement outranks the Constitution. woo me with science Jun 2014 #61

Your interpretation of the Constitution obviously differs from that of the Supreme Court karynnj Jun 2014 #68

Argle blargle. woo me with science Jun 2014 #74

This thread is obviously in answer to the Ellsberg one karynnj Jun 2014 #84

"Where there should be a debate is on..." woo me with science Jun 2014 #91

Given that you call an obvious DU thread "hypothetical" karynnj Jun 2014 #99

"third way verbiage thrown at anyone who is not a libertarian on this issue..." woo me with science Jun 2014 #114

Parse it anyway you want -have fun twisting things to your heart's content karynnj Jun 2014 #116

I agree. grasswire Jun 2014 #95

Disgusting false equivalence. Revolting minimization of the Holocaust. riqster Jun 2014 #51

The forest for the trees Trajan Jun 2014 #60

Maybe I'd have known that if you had written a more precise post. riqster Jun 2014 #69

Nothing was revolting here except the attempt to divert from the very lucid point made woo me with science Jun 2014 #82

Had it been lucid, there would not have been multiple objections, riqster Jun 2014 #88

Multiple objections, as in two... woo me with science Jun 2014 #96

Here is what I have learned after several decades addressing audiences: riqster Jun 2014 #115

Note that that poster's post was hidden - because it was an outrageous equivalence karynnj Jun 2014 #89

Many posts are wrongly hidden. woo me with science Jun 2014 #94

What "unconscionable acts" has the government made legal? karynnj Jun 2014 #101

Bwah. woo me with science Jun 2014 #117

Ohz, noes! Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #29

He also swore to uphold the Constitution. Le Taz Hot Jun 2014 #30

The Constitution in which nation, it sure isn't the US Constitution. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #50

The Constitution of Fredonia. Le Taz Hot Jun 2014 #80

Thought so, here in the US we use the US Constitution. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #83

Whooosh! Le Taz Hot Jun 2014 #87

yeah, I had to giggle at that one! nt grasswire Jun 2014 #128

Halliburton gives out NDA's by the bucketfuls too. And for the same reasons too... Pholus Jun 2014 #34

^^ this. nt TBF Jun 2014 #77

I signed an NDA with an Election Software vendor back in 2004. riqster Jun 2014 #41

I will ask you the same thing I asked the person with the Ellsburg op. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #70

Of course he did - TBF Jun 2014 #75

breaking an NDA as a contractor is not a war crime. grasswire Jun 2014 #93

Nope - what I said flat out is that he'll be in jail TBF Jun 2014 #113

I agree to not to snitch on our government if and when they do something wrong. Nice. L0oniX Jun 2014 #76

Okay attorneys, and those that play them on the internutz ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #90

So did 99% of the people to get their current job...NDA's joeybee12 Jun 2014 #92

And remember that your signed NDA trumps any type of US Constitutional Oath you vow nolabels Jun 2014 #134

Of course he did. MADem Jun 2014 #97

Gotta wonder what's up with Ellsberg whom I used to respect but do Cha Jun 2014 #131

He is an old man who was operating under very different rules. MADem Jun 2014 #132

Thank you for that info, MADem.. so much different than Cha Jun 2014 #133

So sue him brentspeak Jun 2014 #124

When other people are spreading lies, I prefer not to shut up. pnwmom Jun 2014 #125

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #126

I get it. When in doubt, resort to a personal attack. n/t pnwmom Jun 2014 #127

There are no words I can possibly put together to properly express my complete befuddlement at TheKentuckian Jun 2014 #129