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H2O Man

(79,202 posts)
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 11:57 AM Jun 2014

Old White Folk Story [View all]

I’ve read a few O.P.s/threads discussing old white people here over the past few days, with great interest. Some of my best friends are old white folks; there are several living in my neighborhood; and even some of my extended family members have included old white people. So, while I admittedly do not have a Ph.D. in old white people studies, I have studied them closely.

My father was an old white man most of my life. He was a “first generation” Irish-American. His father came here from the Old Sod in the 1870s (white folks from another island stole the land our family had lived upon since at least the 1200s). My father was always older than me while I was growing up, and he rarely wore shorts. Hence, on those few summer days he wore shorts, his legs were painful to look at without sunglasses on.

My father was a very old white man when he died. The curious thing is that my siblings are about that same age today, and they don’t seem so very old to me.

This alone may not convince the skeptic that I know a heck of a lot about old white folks, so I’ll tell two true stories to remove any and all doubt:

Two weeks ago, while in a grocery store, an old white man said, “Hi” to me. I felt a wave of anxiety as I thought, “Who is that old white dude? He looks familiar.” Suddenly, about ten minutes later, I realized that he had been two years behind me in high school. The anxiety was replaced by sheer panic. I did, however, get home safely.

In a closely related true story, in the 1980s, I spent a day with Abbie Hoffman in Oneonta, N.Y. He was speaking at the state university there that evening. I remember that a lot of old white folks seemed disappointed that Abbie wasn’t exactly the same as he had been in 1968. Oh, his values were much the same, but his tactics were different. Some of the college students seemed surprised that he was mellower than the historical character they had read about.

I’m convinced that, by now, all readers except perhaps the most paranoid and/or troubled have concluded that I know about old white people. Now that my credentials have been fully established, I would like to talk about old white folks in the context of the struggle for political, economic, and social justice. Please pay attention while I’m speaking -- there will be a test. But you don’t have to take notes.

The struggle for social justice is on-going. It started well before the American Revolutionary War, and will continue in each decade and in every generation. It is not something that is won and done. Rather, it is a living entity, a living force that we participate in, either as an advocate or an enemy of social justice. Thus, those who attempt to sit upon the sidelines -- who “aren’t interested” and suffer from the delusion that their life isn’t impacted by the problems of the larger society -- add dead weight to the negative force, making it more difficult for good people to make progress. Yet that does not translate into their being “the enemy” in the same manner as a Dick Cheney or a corporation that destroys the natural world.
Every generation has had good and sincere participants in the struggle for social justice. But even within that large group, we can identify competing sub-groups. Let’s consider the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. It was, to be sure, an outgrowth of the same struugle in the 1950s, and the 1940s before that, and on and on. In the ‘60s, there was the NAACP, the SCLC, the Nation of Islam, the Black Panthers, and more. At times, the leadership of these groups didn’t coordinate their efforts. But when they did, they harnessed much more power than the combined totals of each group. Synergism is a very real force in social struggles.

In fact, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover authored an infamous memo in the 1960s, ordering his agency to destroy any and all attempts at uniting the various civil rights groups, preventing such a synergism. Students of that era know that, in late ‘64, there were efforts by Martin Luther King, Jr., and Malcolm X to unite. This would have resulted in the domestic civil rights struggle to evolve into an international human rights movement, where it properly belonged.

The Civil Rights Movement won a lot of important victories. Obviously, that struggle is far from over. The enemy has become more sophisticated and system’s-wise than it was in the 1960s. At the same time, it is no longer defined as exclusively “white vs. black”: there are also brown, red, and yellow peoples involved.

Both leadership and tactics have changed. The young leaders of that past era are now the Elders of today. That doesn’t mean they do not participate in the struggle. Their values are the same. But their tactics -- indeed, their role -- has changed. And that’s a good thing. It’s the right thing. For there are few things as sad as a 60-year old, male or female, attempting to compete with 25-year olds. (I am not, however, opposed to the Rolling Stones going on tour.)

When I was young, I was a student of the Elders. That doesn’t mean I was in total agreement with each and every one. But I could learn something from each one, and a heck of a lot from a few of them.

Today, I am old. My children are convinced that I am the oldest living human in history. Still, they and their circles of friends never hesitate to ask my opinion on current struggles for social justice. I interact with plenty of other young folks at group meetings in the region of upstate New York that I inhabit. And I get to meet quite a few young activists when I speak at high schools and colleges.

Certainly, not all of these young folk agree with me on everything. Nor should they. If, in my current role as -- for lack of better words -- a teaching Elder I found that any one of them agreed with me on everything, I’d have failed in my duty to encourage them to think for themselves.

Tensions within groups, and between sub-groups, is a good thing if it is used to fuel creativity. The opposite potential -- for tensions to be destructive -- is not a good thing. As we all contribute to the potential outcome, by way of our individual beliefs and actions, how we view others, especially those “different” from ourselves, plays an important role.

Keep an open mind.
H2O Man

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Old White Folk Story [View all] H2O Man Jun 2014 OP
I was thinking this morning that the right has upaloopa Jun 2014 #1
I think you are correct. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #11
my dad was born in 1927 and was the best man I ever knew. He used to get up roguevalley Jun 2014 #42
That is an amazing history, roguevalley. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #43
thank you. my family has a tendency to live to be 100 or more. roguevalley Jun 2014 #44
Love the bit about your mom defending FDR btrflykng9 Jun 2014 #86
My older white woman friend told me the story of she and her spouse looking for the right monmouth3 Jun 2014 #2
Hi there! PatSeg Jun 2014 #13
Hi PatSeg, Good to see you. It's very true about ageing. Some days I feel 20 and others I feel 30 monmouth3 Jun 2014 #32
Oh yes, a very good thing! PatSeg Jun 2014 #36
Wisdom. Thank you, H2O Man Hekate Jun 2014 #3
Thank you. H2O Man Jun 2014 #29
Another True Story ..... H2O Man Jun 2014 #4
I call myself a "senior" - just vague enough No Vested Interest Jun 2014 #12
Great story .....and food for thought Ichingcarpenter Jun 2014 #5
Thanks H2O Man Jun 2014 #34
Old White People Studies... Eleanors38 Jun 2014 #6
Irish history. H2O Man Jun 2014 #37
Is it still in print and available? Eleanors38 Jun 2014 #52
Yes. H2O Man Jun 2014 #56
Many many people here on DU Le Taz Hot Jun 2014 #7
Thank you. H2O Man Jun 2014 #27
Divided we fall--but divided they raise money and GOTV and they know that, too. So, we are more merrily Jun 2014 #65
Exactly what I was thinking btrflykng9 Jun 2014 #87
Well done, Storyteller, Zorra Jun 2014 #8
I had a few H2O Man Jun 2014 #38
Yes, probably the right decision, lol. BTW, speaking of Abbie, Zorra Jun 2014 #49
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #9
Thanks! H2O Man Jun 2014 #39
Don't think I've experienced your irony before.:) malthaussen Jun 2014 #10
Likewise! H2O Man Jun 2014 #40
Excellent essay PatSeg Jun 2014 #14
Thanks! H2O Man Jun 2014 #41
Excellent post. byronius Jun 2014 #15
In some ways, H2O Man Jun 2014 #16
Anybody who proposes age stereotypes navarth Jun 2014 #17
I agree. H2O Man Jun 2014 #74
#notalloldwhitemen Blue_Adept Jun 2014 #18
… old white folks and the struggle for social justice... toby jo Jun 2014 #19
Thank you. This is great. oldandhappy Jun 2014 #20
Great read. panader0 Jun 2014 #21
That was quite an experience you had as a young man. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #45
The question is...do you wear shorts? FourScore Jun 2014 #22
I do. H2O Man Jun 2014 #23
LOL n/t FourScore Jun 2014 #25
But not H2O Man Jun 2014 #26
A voice of reason. How refreshing... SMC22307 Jun 2014 #24
Great post - thanks ashling Jun 2014 #28
My brother was an old white man when he was 17 tularetom Jun 2014 #30
Another fun story! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #47
Refreshing! KoKo Jun 2014 #31
Good Prose ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #33
Well done. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #35
respect for elders hopemountain Jun 2014 #46
Likewise. H2O Man Jun 2014 #48
LOVE your post! scarletwoman Jun 2014 #50
Years ago, at the H2O Man Jun 2014 #69
K&R. Well said. Overseas Jun 2014 #51
I've been reading some of these OP's & posts the last few days. mackerel Jun 2014 #53
Thank You Old Codger Jun 2014 #54
That type of generalization is called bigotry so I wouldn't let it bother me if I were you. I have sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #63
Right you are Old Codger Jun 2014 #68
An excellent post. kiva Jun 2014 #55
You're a class act. WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #57
Thanks, Old Dude pscot Jun 2014 #58
Kick! scarletwoman Jun 2014 #59
This old white guy grew up in Spencerport, and enjoys reading your posts, Mineral Man NBachers Jun 2014 #60
Not about old or white OverseaVisitor Jun 2014 #61
Super thread, H20ldWhiteMan Samantha Jun 2014 #62
Several of my very Democratic family members are old white folks and several of my parents merrily Jun 2014 #64
Thanks for a great post LaurenG Jun 2014 #66
A great read. Thanks. Together we rise. n/t seveneyes Jun 2014 #67
Are you familiar with Vance Gilbert? Here he is singing "Old White Men" Tom Rinaldo Jun 2014 #70
I'm glad I checked before posting. I love that song. And Vance! A beautiful human being. HERVEPA Jun 2014 #76
Yes, he's a wonderful person, writes great songs, has an amazing voice and... Tom Rinaldo Jun 2014 #82
Yep. His performances are half comedy and and great songs. He is one of a kind. HERVEPA Jun 2014 #83
K&R raouldukelives Jun 2014 #71
If "(t)ensions within groups, and between sub-groups, is a good thing if it is used to fuel marble falls Jun 2014 #72
Such thoughtul words of wisdom! Paka Jun 2014 #73
Wait a minute ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #75
I think you are misunderstanding. When those who actually ARE guilty are the ones being vilified, it sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #77
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #78
First, I do see how offensive it is to ask that racism not be pointed out. It should be and so sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #79
Really ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #80
No, I haven't. Do they say 'stop talking about racism'? I can't imagine a post like that sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #81
Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #84
Okay, then we agree. There are good and bad people everywhere. . sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #85
But are we fighting the same battle? 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #88
We've never had such a conversation, you are obviously confusing me with someone else. sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #89
This message was self-deleted by its author 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #90
Okay. eom 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #91
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