General Discussion

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)

97. I had a Creationist tell me the same thing,

Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:08 AM

Jun 2014

when I wouldn't "substantively" debate "gaps in the fossil record."

Your "impartial lawyer" act lost me when you defended threatening investigative journalists with imprisonment for carrying out the job description of investigative journalists in the United States of America. Actually, well before that, as you have carried water consistently for policies that assault the very foundations of our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.

Tenure for teachers has been discussed exhaustively on DU for a very long time by principled liberals, some of them even lawyers, I bet. I'm pretty sure you can find some good discussions from before 2008 and the influx of the corporate fossil record diversions.

This is just one more area in a steadily lengthening list of policies in which the Third Way has co-opted familiar Republican arguments and tried to present them as though they weren't.

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Today, Obama admin all but admitted it is a right wing, teacher-union busting admin [View all] brentspeak Jun 2014 OP

Entirely consistent with the overall corporate direction of this administration. woo me with science Jun 2014 #1

Amen. 840high Jun 2014 #3

I wish I could disagree. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #52

And yet the Republican Party never stopped treating him with contempt - like dirt under their Cal33 Jun 2014 #106

It's just an act FiveGoodMen Jun 2014 #127

I've thought about this being just an act, but the thought of the amount of incredible abuse Cal33 Jun 2014 #148

The abuse the Obamas are taking? truedelphi Jun 2014 #153

Any Democratic president would be subject to the worst abuse the GOP can find or dream up. Just Cal33 Jun 2014 #213

How is a ruling that values the equal protection of children above property "corporate?" nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #62

when it is the thin line between you and the mob. this is bullshit roguevalley Jun 2014 #169

violates the equal protection of good teachers, which are most of them reddread Jun 2014 #189

Then they ought to file suit. I expect that you've read the decision, then? The court msanthrope Jun 2014 #190

you behave as though some SoCal county judge is the final word reddread Jun 2014 #196

WOW, this brings all of my experiences back.. OLDMADAM Jun 2014 #195

What you say is key JonLP24 Jun 2014 #63

"Third Way is a deliberate, infiltrating, corporate-bankrolled infiltration, a cancer in our party." Scuba Jun 2014 #67

Yes, the Third Way is killing the Democratic Party -- very slowly. It's just that their Cal33 Jun 2014 #111

Thank you. The main goal of any Democrat should be to root out these Third Way infiltrators sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #150

+1 btrflykng9 Jun 2014 #151

... Zorra Jun 2014 #161

Amenagain. GoneFishin Jun 2014 #183

Amen. truebluegreen Jun 2014 #201

Bingo. He's a corporatist to the core. nt LittleBlue Jun 2014 #211

he's too busy putting on his "comfortable shoes" as we speak lol nt msongs Jun 2014 #2

Comfortable shoes? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2014 #167

In reference to Obama, it is from his campaign promise truebluegreen Jun 2014 #202

Link? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2014 #205

Sorry; I thought I put it in there. truebluegreen Jun 2014 #207

When they said the suit was brought by people in Sillicone Valley Live and Learn Jun 2014 #4

Yes, Arne Duncan is praising union busting... madfloridian Jun 2014 #5

And there are hundreds of DUers who are happy too rpannier Jun 2014 #12

And they'll find any excuse ... aggiesal Jun 2014 #19

Obama lied about a lot of things in 2008 Doctor_J Jun 2014 #6

and many were lured into a naive world where america doesn't have 1200 ALEC radio stations certainot Jun 2014 #9

The moderates stayed home quakerboy Jun 2014 #43

Thank you! SammyWinstonJack Jun 2014 #69

Exactly. Thank you. Scuba Jun 2014 #70

Thank you again. It's easy for both sides to blame the someone else for their own actions and kelliekat44 Jun 2014 #74

yes, the naive new voters- and much of that oppression was based on the general buzz certainot Jun 2014 #96

That didn't make the president give Education to Arne Duncan Doctor_J Jun 2014 #110

did he pick van jones before or after duncan? the left let the right swiftboat jones like certainot Jun 2014 #116

Perhaps the Dems should have had some enticements, like, you know, policies .... Scuba Jun 2014 #71

What a concept! woo me with science Jun 2014 #80

BS- you mean like fewer stupid wars, better regulation environment and healthcare? you mean certainot Jun 2014 #104

As opposed to the Third Way-fabricated world woo me with science Jun 2014 #81

garbage. it's like that because of money in the system. we can't get the money out certainot Jun 2014 #115

Ah, the problem presented as an excuse! woo me with science Jun 2014 #128

you might as well give up. if you want to wait till we certainot Jun 2014 #154

So 100% true. His lies led to the Dem disillusionment in 2010 and the Tea Party surge. Peregrine Took Jun 2014 #176

Hooey otohara Jun 2014 #216

I voted in 2010, and every election since 1978 - straight ticket Doctor_J Jun 2014 #217

K&R, Seems they are planning many more years of this PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #7

they couldn't have done it without all those rw talk radio stations attacking teachers certainot Jun 2014 #8

Though someone will likely get all upset and report rpannier Jun 2014 #10

Be curious if the Dems will now get push back from the Teacher's Unions rpannier Jun 2014 #11

There is already pushback, there is just no coverage of it in the media. madfloridian Jun 2014 #13

Nobody cares. DeSwiss Jun 2014 #14

+100000000000 woo me with science Jun 2014 #15

Brutal truth.... daleanime Jun 2014 #34

+1000 bbgrunt Jun 2014 #39

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2014 #174

Bullshit. Obama is the most liberal president since FDR mwrguy Jun 2014 #16

So tell me why Arne Duncan, rightwing strikebreaker of teacher's unions vlakitti Jun 2014 #17

I agree with you on this one Fred Friendlier Jun 2014 #18

So Duncan's anti-Union comments are the result of the Republ;icans running the House rpannier Jun 2014 #20

You don't understand. The mere *presence* of Republicans anywhere nearby woo me with science Jun 2014 #32

heh. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2014 #73

President Obama could slit Arne Duncan's throat in the Oval office on live TV Fred Friendlier Jun 2014 #210

You would think you'd at least address the issue I brought up rpannier Jun 2014 #214

Republicans didn't force him to embrace corporate driven education reform yurbud Jun 2014 #24

No, this one is on the president and his policies. It's his, he owns it. madfloridian Jun 2014 #29

The President didn't appoint this judge. And I think it violates core Democratic msanthrope Jun 2014 #61

"The President didn't appoint this judge." woo me with science Jun 2014 #79

How is a ruling upholding the equal protection rights of children an assault on you? nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #82

"upholding the equal protection rights of children" woo me with science Jun 2014 #90

You are repeating a lot of memes, but not addressing the ruling itself. msanthrope Jun 2014 #92

I love the propaganda tactic of always ending with a question, woo me with science Jun 2014 #101

Equivocations Aerows Jun 2014 #141

this is what I find objectionable about this ruling dsc Jun 2014 #118

All of kiva Jun 2014 #120

Certainly, it puts teachers on par with other workers, subject to the protections they have. msanthrope Jun 2014 #131

Wait, what?! knitter4democracy Jun 2014 #172

You know what I find illogical and troubling? Generally, the dismissal of a rights msanthrope Jun 2014 #191

Why do harp on the fact that teachers rights are ooposed to children's rights? Armstead Jun 2014 #199

The Republicans has NOTHING to do with Obama's appointment of Arne Duncan, bvar22 Jun 2014 #140

Yep rpannier Jun 2014 #25

TPP, NSA, Chained CPI, education privatization.... madfloridian Jun 2014 #30

you forgot..... daleanime Jun 2014 #35

Really?! My thoughts are that he is the best Republican since Nixon emsimon33 Jun 2014 #45

On labor? Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #49

The similarities between FDR and Obama do include..... DeSwiss Jun 2014 #65

They gave Obama a ton in '08 fujiyama Jun 2014 #175

And yet the criminals still walk free. n/t DeSwiss Jun 2014 #185

Truman was probably the most liberal relative to the average JonLP24 Jun 2014 #68

He's not even as liberal as Nixon n/t n2doc Jun 2014 #98

Hell, even *Reagan* acknowledged that SS has nothing to do with the deficit. woo me with science Jun 2014 #107

No offense but are you insane??? Yes or no. n/t Peregrine Took Jun 2014 #177

this is about bad and pervert teachers in the public schools who keep their hopemountain Jun 2014 #21

Sure you are rpannier Jun 2014 #23

oh yes i am... bonafide hopemountain Jun 2014 #26

If you say so rpannier Jun 2014 #33

I simply do not believe you. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #53

Aren't we already there? chervilant Jun 2014 #155

Pretty much. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #156

Yeah, and fuck those teachers that want to own a home, have great health insurance...etc., etc. progressoid Jun 2014 #171

If there is no job security, good teachers will suffer as well. madfloridian Jun 2014 #28

Yes, it's the astroturf way of JimDandy Jun 2014 #57

I used to work for an agency that helped the homeless. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #31

Where I taught I had to run to the next door classroom, a 3rd grader had the teacher's arm... madfloridian Jun 2014 #36

The voters endorsed the idea of teacher tenure when Schwarzenegger put it up for a vote JDPriestly Jun 2014 #38

But here, tenure as a property right falls to the civil rights of children. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #60

It wasn't the union or tenure that kept "bad or pervert" teachers on. Live and Learn Jun 2014 #44

If school administrators did their jobs emsimon33 Jun 2014 #48

Administrators abelenkpe Jun 2014 #56

EXACTLY. Principals are not being held appropriately accountable for the quality of their schools. ancianita Jun 2014 #125

What perverts and bad teachers are defendants in the Vergara trial? Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #50

Never mind. He's just upchucking what Beck told him Doctor_J Jun 2014 #143

"i am very pro union - and yet..." brentspeak Jun 2014 #58

oh-oh. A Limbecile has joined DU Doctor_J Jun 2014 #139

"This is about bad and pervert teachers". SomethingFishy Jun 2014 #142

I suggest you take your own advice and "study the real issues" because you don't have a clue. Squinch Jun 2014 #178

what about the students and families in the low income or minority districts hopemountain Jun 2014 #215

Obama, Arne, & most of Dem leadership in Congress are almost daring Progressives to leave the party yurbud Jun 2014 #22

People cannot afford to pay for a teaching degree which is not worth as much in the marketplace JDPriestly Jun 2014 #27

Ending tenure for teachers is a good thing. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #37

and you can do that without ending tenure. It IS done in places where teachers have tenure. cali Jun 2014 #41

Well....that's not really the point of the lawsuit. Here, you have a claim of equal msanthrope Jun 2014 #64

why do you keep talking about "property"? Ken Burch Jun 2014 #108

On paper yes, in practice no. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #124

Good people won't apply for jobs where they can be fired at any time without cause Ken Burch Jun 2014 #164

Tenure is a property right, negotiated through contract. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #133

So is their salary ... GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #170

Generally, we've put property rights subordinate to civil rights msanthrope Jun 2014 #188

But this also makes it possible to fire good teachers who have relatively high salaries, Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #42

THIS ^^ BuelahWitch Jun 2014 #137

Maybe "good teachers" is exactly what the Third Way, and Republicans, don't want. Zorra Jun 2014 #160

Exactly how do you define "not teaching well?" Live and Learn Jun 2014 #46

Exactly.Key to it all: PRINCIPALS are responsible for whether teachers get tenure, NOT UNIONS. ancianita Jun 2014 #123

Utterly daft. Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #51

Unions have lost enough ground. Or haven't you noticed? Enthusiast Jun 2014 #54

It's not about "ground"; two wrongs do not make a right. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #103

You have made your anti-union-in-general views known in the past brentspeak Jun 2014 #119

I strongly suggest passers by to read the links, rather than the so-called summary. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #122

But it is, anti-union. You're busted! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #152

+10000 Important message here: Always watch the patterns. woo me with science Jun 2014 #197

UP WITH THIS^ +1 right here n/t reddread Jun 2014 #204

FFS - this is why everyone in this country TBF Jun 2014 #66

... SammyWinstonJack Jun 2014 #76

"someone who will do it better" Union Scribe Jun 2014 #85

Even Idaho voted against that BeyondGeography Jun 2014 #89

It's enough to be able to fire for cause...incompetence IS cause. Ken Burch Jun 2014 #100

well and concisely said. bbgrunt Jun 2014 #135

As I said below... ancianita Jun 2014 #126

Wow, you're wrong on this issue too and obviously know nothing of the subject BrotherIvan Jun 2014 #144

It is very easy today to fire teachers who are deemed not to be teaching well. Squinch Jun 2014 #180

This makes me physically ill. Such ignorance and bullshit and bbgrunt Jun 2014 #40

+1 nt Live and Learn Jun 2014 #47

I agree. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #55

Corporate PROPAGANDA is usually ignorance and bullshit woo me with science Jun 2014 #94

+ 11111111111 Peregrine Took Jun 2014 #179

I find your stance of valuing a property right over the civil rights of children to be at odds msanthrope Jun 2014 #59

How is job security a property right? Ken Burch Jun 2014 #105

Tenure is a property right of the teachers. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #130

You keep trying to make this point and no one is biting BrotherIvan Jun 2014 #146

And yet...that is precisely the ruling. Others may wish to discuss anything but the msanthrope Jun 2014 #149

Really? Is the BOG now going to embrace union-busting too? Doctor_J Jun 2014 #165

K&R. The Third Way are liars and a menace to this nation. woo me with science Jun 2014 #72

As I noted upthread, upholding a property right over a civil right is at odds with msanthrope Jun 2014 #75

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. woo me with science Jun 2014 #77

How is upholding the equal protection of children a corporate assault? nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #83

Because it's not the equal protection of children, silly. woo me with science Jun 2014 #87

Actually, I cannot recall a time when I valued a property right over a civil rights claim. msanthrope Jun 2014 #91

I had a Creationist tell me the same thing, woo me with science Jun 2014 #97

Yep, they're lying poisonous snakes, just like their close kin, the Republicans. nt Zorra Jun 2014 #159

I wish there was a brief summary of the decision, what exactly are the Obama people praising randys1 Jun 2014 #78

I blogged about a similar case in my journal...that was LAUSD msanthrope Jun 2014 #93

Unions need to do a better job dealing with bad teachers and protecting good ones BeyondGeography Jun 2014 #84

You don't seem to be familiar with the dismissal process. In most jurisdictions it is neither long, Squinch Jun 2014 #182

That's not the ruling here BeyondGeography Jun 2014 #184

In NYC those numbers ARE unheard of. It takes 2 unsatisfactory ratings. It can Squinch Jun 2014 #203

This thread is sickening. Union Scribe Jun 2014 #86

Putrid and revolting. I can't even believe this "discussion" is happening on a Dem forum. n/t Peregrine Took Jun 2014 #181

k and r. no text Stuart G Jun 2014 #88

This about firing bad teachers - how is that "union busting"? Chuck Finley Jun 2014 #95

You don't have to get rid of tenure to fire bad teachers. Ken Burch Jun 2014 #99

Twelve words that sum up the dishonesty of the Third Way talking points: woo me with science Jun 2014 #112

A judge just overturned contractual relationships teachers have with their unions. Due process. madfloridian Jun 2014 #102

Well, yes, as you have no right to bargain against the equal protection of others. msanthrope Jun 2014 #134

It will be overturned on appeal. Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #157

It's about firing teachers for any reason or no reason Doctor_J Jun 2014 #166

No, it's about busting the union. knitter4democracy Jun 2014 #173

Me too. I am in the Californa roody Jun 2014 #192

But all of you teachers out there better vote Dem this fall, or it's all your fault!!111! Doctor_J Jun 2014 #109

Nah, they should vote non dem... thats the better of two bad choices / sarcasm uponit7771 Jun 2014 #113

"Two bad choices"? What about the Green Party? Chuck Finley Jun 2014 #132

3 bad choices then... point being, make the better of bad choices. Life is not always cut and dry uponit7771 Jun 2014 #138

...because you didn't MAKE the President do the right thing! FiveGoodMen Jun 2014 #129

God damn all teacher haters. The public had better commit to them if they want commitment from them. ancianita Jun 2014 #114

Amen! Chiquitita Jun 2014 #121

Freeper judge. And Duncan's a Gingrich-republican anyway. Smarmie Doofus Jun 2014 #117

Probably no coincidence that union busting Chicago mayor Rahm Emmanuel was his former chief of staff cascadiance Jun 2014 #136

LOL, they hardly needed to admit it Skittles Jun 2014 #145

Are there any democrats in office who are fighting this or are they all on the corporate payroll? liberal_at_heart Jun 2014 #147

No, there aren't. This is Democratic policy. madfloridian Jun 2014 #163

Two corporate parties, one agenda. woo me with science Jun 2014 #186

Are All classrooms equal? mdohoney Jun 2014 #158

In NYC, it's done all the time. Smarmie Doofus Jun 2014 #187

^ Wilms Jun 2014 #162

I'll write in my dog before I vote for any 3rd way POS ever again Teamster Jeff Jun 2014 #168

Brown vs. Board of Ed isn't Third Way. My suggestion to everyone msanthrope Jun 2014 #193

I hope you don't actually believe that the people pushing this give shit about minorities. Teamster Jeff Jun 2014 #209

Your dog would, without a doubt, be a far more productive and beneficial legislator than a Third Way Zorra Jun 2014 #200

Leo and Sydney Teamster Jeff Jun 2014 #208

Bwahaahaa! Sydney D. Dog it is then. nt Zorra Jun 2014 #218

A real progressive measure would be to expand tenure to all jobs Lee-Lee Jun 2014 #194

but they have a (D) by their names! Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #198

How about the funding that was found unconstitutional Doremus Jun 2014 #206

we have a choice of two corporate parties: one with racists and religious nuts yurbud Jun 2014 #212