General Discussion

bigtree

(93,319 posts)

102. you don't need to go back that far in history

Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:59 PM

Jun 2014

. . . as recently as 2008 we debated around here that there was some huge difference between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Practically two sides of the same coin, those two - she was his SoS for shitsakes.

You've gone off topic and are actually arguing with yourself on those issues you've listed there. Stick to the subject: the presidential election. We're talking about the value of candidates who need to achieve the nomination and win the general. I think progressive challengers do have a way of pushing the debate to the left, and that's certainly a good thing, But, don't pretend that's the same thing as defeating the republican nominee. Winning against the republican is the end game in presidential elections; not who can hold the most progressive positions.

Cannot edit, recommend, or reply in locked discussions

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

254 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] bigtree Jun 2014 OP

Some of them live for that sharp_stick Jun 2014 #1

It's called coveting the struggle LordGlenconner Jun 2014 #8

Um, no. The worst nightmare is the transition of the United States Maedhros Jun 2014 #22

Who would that be? randys1 Jun 2014 #28

The CryptoRepublicans who live under his bed Fred Friendlier Jun 2014 #170

Yes who are those mainstream Demos who are so eager to usher in a Nat.Sec. State. ? lumpy Jun 2014 #38

Obama for one. Feinstein for another. Maedhros Jun 2014 #42

So you say. To what degree does Obama and Feinstein push for a "National Security State." lumpy Jun 2014 #45

Surveillance of citizens not suspected of a crime. Maedhros Jun 2014 #48

Have you ever actually seen a Military State? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #89

Wiretap RobinA Jun 2014 #91

After 8 years of a right-wing bush regime, 2008 was quite a change bhikkhu Jun 2014 #224

Internet malcontents. Primed to complain. Never happy. FSogol Jun 2014 #11

Don't worry I know I will leave DU and the party if Hillary is on the ticket Exposethefrauds Jun 2014 #2

... LordGlenconner Jun 2014 #13

Somebody being "Tombstoned"? riqster Jun 2014 #78

Well, you might want to start planning, because MineralMan Jun 2014 #16

I am sure you all will be very happy with her like that is fine Exposethefrauds Jun 2014 #26

It's your vote and your choice. MineralMan Jun 2014 #29

I am right there with you, the only thing worse than a mainstream corp Dem is any and all randys1 Jun 2014 #33

Better take your marbles and hit the road now. Not much is going to change in the next decade lumpy Jun 2014 #41

ALL of us have standards....we are Democrats not Republicans... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #153

Well from what I am reading here that is in doubt. Exposethefrauds Jun 2014 #252

People should've learned the hard way RainDog Jun 2014 #43

That Nonhlanhla Jun 2014 #61

Oh wow JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #76

I can get as aggravated as the next person RainDog Jun 2014 #130

That's interesting. The idea of vote swapping. Xyzse Jun 2014 #123

It was a strategy started online during that election RainDog Jun 2014 #128

I see. Yeah, I can definitely understand. Xyzse Jun 2014 #134

Lots of vote swapping here in Canada laundry_queen Jun 2014 #243

Thank you RainDog! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #237

if you really feel that way you would have already left JI7 Jun 2014 #59

Why do you keep coming back?...nt SidDithers Jun 2014 #60

Why wait? we can do it Jun 2014 #64

Don't let the door hit ya IronLionZion Jun 2014 #66

If that is the way you go, then you will have to be satisfied with what ever comes from the right liberal N proud Jun 2014 #86

Well said. freshwest Jun 2014 #221

Why wait? Hekate Jun 2014 #99

toodles! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #152

What's the other one? "How can we miss you if you don't go away?" freshwest Jun 2014 #223

Nice self-referential screen name you got there... baldguy Jun 2014 #203

You better believe it! zappaman Jun 2014 #227

Uh, it's congressional midterms this year. The presidential election is two years from now. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2014 #3

It is the responsibility of the people in a democracy to hold public servants accountable. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #4

One cannot hold a candidate who is not elected accountable for MineralMan Jun 2014 #6

And, it's their responsibility to convince the voters to vote for them. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #12

Of course it is. It's also the responsibility of election activists. MineralMan Jun 2014 #14

Probably reading a good book. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #17

You will do as you see fit. MineralMan Jun 2014 #21

I'm on board for whomever our candidate is.. OLDMADAM Jun 2014 #25

Thank you! We're counting on it! MineralMan Jun 2014 #30

and when people DonCoquixote Jun 2014 #247

you have it backwards n/t reddread Jun 2014 #53

Do you seriously think Republicans are more accountable to the people than Democrats? baldguy Jun 2014 #205

I think that public servants are to held accountable by the people. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #219

But do you seriously think Republicans ARE MORE accountable? baldguy Jun 2014 #220

How does "all" public servants should be accountable to the people sound? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #246

"Should be" is a wish. "Should be" is a dream. "Should be" is a fantesy. baldguy Jun 2014 #248

Indeed. You are correct in that. MineralMan Jun 2014 #5

well i think it's crazy to completely dislike a candidate, complain nonstop m-lekktor Jun 2014 #7

Well, we are Democratic Underground. We kind of presume you voted for Obama if you're here. n/t moriah Jun 2014 #249

I've been told Hillary is unbeatable against a repub, so its irrelevant. morningfog Jun 2014 #9

Finally, someone who gets it! Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #117

You don't vote you takes your chances....I for one will put anyone on DU who doesn't vote for VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #154

I'll buy you a drink too. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #207

I just hope that when Hillary is the nominee that dem8crats and DUers can unite around her. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #10

Exactly! WIN first, bitch later. ancianita Jun 2014 #23

Except as we've seen the past few years...... vi5 Jun 2014 #36

Well, I'm only hoping for more unity of spirit around here, not uniformity. After all, it IS 2014. ancianita Jun 2014 #52

"Independents" meaning "not dependable" Democrats VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #155

I am not expecting to lose....why are you? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #156

Hope so too. joshcryer Jun 2014 #58

Now this is not a post I expected from you nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #143

I meant if she won the primaries. I am all for a primary. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #144

The OP is about the inevitability of the HRC coronation. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #145

see....there you go using the word "coronation" to describe the Democratic process..... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #157

...likewise the Party Politicians shouldn't complain leftstreet Jun 2014 #15

LOL ... Draw up a list for a purge! 1000words Jun 2014 #18

purge yourself bigtree Jun 2014 #20

There is no nominee as of yet Skidmore Jun 2014 #19

The primaries are a different thing altogether. MineralMan Jun 2014 #32

I'll certainly vote, but I also won't pretend to know who deserves or does not deserve to complain. LanternWaste Jun 2014 #24

If they DON'T vote for the Democrat who wins the Primary...they do NOT deserve to complain on DU VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #158

Damn straight. riqster Jun 2014 #27

Damn, is it this time already? nt BootinUp Jun 2014 #31

No, it's not really, but some folks just have to MineralMan Jun 2014 #35

"Anyone has declared his or her candidacy." Chan790 Jun 2014 #47

I think they are responding to this type of shit 2pooped2pop Jun 2014 #54

Roe v. Wade is one SCOTUS vote from being overturned or limited Gothmog Jun 2014 #34

This should be an OP. riqster Jun 2014 #80

It goes WITHOUT Saying.... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #160

We are in an age where even those things need to be said. riqster Jun 2014 #228

Since the POTUS nominates the USSC justice and the Senate stopped Rand's national personhood bills, freshwest Jun 2014 #244

I will vote for who standingtall Jun 2014 #37

Really, if you don't vote I don't think you have a legitimate gripe. Rex Jun 2014 #39

Exactly bigtree! nt sheshe2 Jun 2014 #40

Cold But Fair, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2014 #44

Agree entirely with you, sir. spooky3 Jun 2014 #127

Making threats on a partisan site... now that is hilarious nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #46

But in the meantime lets piss and moan and look like losers right? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #162

Come on. H2O Man Jun 2014 #49

I've always believed this bigtree Jun 2014 #50

And the evisceration of those rights are nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jun 2014 #75

would have been much worse under a continuing republican regime bigtree Jun 2014 #92

Shhhhh! zappaman Jun 2014 #98

I prefer to live in the here and now nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #132

the truth is just a "cute narrative" now? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #163

I live in a state where I am free to vote my conscience. bvar22 Jun 2014 #51

Well, Hillary spent 15 years or so in Arkansas Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #57

AND if you don't vote for the Democrat....I can ignore the shit out of you! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #165

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #193

To hear the party loyalists tell it, JoeyT Jun 2014 #55

Oh yeah, you can "complain" all you want. It's the disrespect that comes from posts like Cha Jun 2014 #56

Exactly!..... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #166

The "loyalists".. Cha Jun 2014 #179

Yeah being called a "loyal Democrat" VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #184

It's an insult of the hightest order 'cause Cha Jun 2014 #187

Responsibility Nonhlanhla Jun 2014 #62

There are so many things that are laugh worthy nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #70

I am not American-born Nonhlanhla Jun 2014 #149

I grew up in Mexico, and nope, we are not that essential nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #150

Funny how YOU are the only one saying that! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #167

War is no laughing matter Nonhlanhla Jun 2014 #191

War is no laughing matter nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #197

Some are filled with such anger and hate.... NCTraveler Jun 2014 #63

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. woo me with science Jun 2014 #67

Bo *is* adorable nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #68

That's why it works! woo me with science Jun 2014 #84

Actually...we are pretty much there nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #131

Yes, we are. woo me with science Jun 2014 #137

I should run nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #138

Excellent post. JEB Jun 2014 #226

Did you see this OP by rhett o rick? woo me with science Jun 2014 #238

Yes I did, thanks. Absolutely on point. JEB Jun 2014 #241

Let me add another data point nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #251

The freedom over my body means Diddly Squat to you I suppose.... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #169

you've not clicked on even ONE substantive post of mine bigtree Jun 2014 #74

Says the one that is posting that HRC is innevitable nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #173

I will never get over how ridiculous the idea is treestar Jun 2014 #69

Exactly Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2014 #120

You have nailed it. JazzFanInTX Jun 2014 #124

YUP! That is why I finally started posting after lurking for many years....I literally thought VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #174

Okay, I had to look up "freepers" :) JazzFanInTX Jun 2014 #198

that's what I have been trying to say.....they are EXACTLY like them! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #172

When purists on the Left throw the party under the bus... MohRokTah Jun 2014 #71

The Dems don't have a single base. They have several. riqster Jun 2014 #81

And purists on the Left are not one of them. eom MohRokTah Jun 2014 #93

When we win we also move further right. Moving right seems to be the endgame no matter what TheKentuckian Jun 2014 #200

That's a complete falsehood MohRokTah Jun 2014 #206

You realize the ACA nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #253

then you won't complain when we don't support your further-to-the-right candidate, right? mike_c Jun 2014 #204

The purist left has already stated they will not support the most likely nominee MohRokTah Jun 2014 #208

I do not recall any primaries being held nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #212

. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #215

One of how many of posters nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #216

That is what a Leftist Purist looks like MohRokTah Jun 2014 #239

Alas the nation has been on a rightward trend since Reagan nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #240

I disagree MohRokTah Jun 2014 #245

You can disagree all you want nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #250

WTH! Howler Jun 2014 #72

censoring you because I don't think you should come here and bitch and moan bigtree Jun 2014 #73

I never said who or what i was going to vote for or against bigtree. Howler Jun 2014 #79

in the general election, it's either the republican or the Democrat, unless there's some maverick bigtree Jun 2014 #87

Actually there are always other alternatives on the ballot Bigtree just like in life. Howler Jun 2014 #95

alternatives, like spam is to ham bigtree Jun 2014 #97

Dude! ROFL!!!! Howler Jun 2014 #100

you don't need to go back that far in history bigtree Jun 2014 #102

NO Howler Jun 2014 #106

a viable alternative equipped or positioned to beat the republican in the general bigtree Jun 2014 #110

She'd done worst than that nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #148

Says you.....sour grapes much? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #177

exactly Nadine Brzezinski! Howler Jun 2014 #233

Well Howler Jun 2014 #101

who's 'stifling' your speech? That's a strawman. I just don't want to hear the wailing bigtree Jun 2014 #104

Nope. Howler Jun 2014 #107

I obviously don't have that power bigtree Jun 2014 #111

LOL! Howler Jun 2014 #113

that's it isn't it? You want to define yourself based on candidates who haven't even declared bigtree Jun 2014 #118

Excuse Me Bigtree. ROFl!!! Howler Jun 2014 #133

you want to rant on and on about how bad the Democratic party is bigtree Jun 2014 #139

Free Speech is about Govt interference in your speech my friend...not the consequences of it! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #176

huh? Howler Jun 2014 #234

All this whining about people who don't like Hillary - kinda weird. djean111 Jun 2014 #77

most of the whining about Hillary is weird bigtree Jun 2014 #83

From what I am reading, people who dislike Hillary just do not like her politics, djean111 Jun 2014 #85

I take your point. Hell knows there's plently to criticize with these career politicians bigtree Jun 2014 #90

You do remember 2006 nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #135

she's inevitable, unless a rival gets going. How long do you think they can wait? bigtree Jun 2014 #140

Same talk as 2006 nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #142

so who plays Obama the insurgent? There was another dynamic working for Obama, as you know bigtree Jun 2014 #146

What part of earliest 2015 are you missing? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #147

you're going to be a jerk and rag on me for bringing a little lightness and humanity to this forum bigtree Jun 2014 #159

You claim she is innevitable nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #161

no, no, nadin - take some time to read what I wrote above. You forfeited this debate with foolishnes bigtree Jun 2014 #168

So you call mature voters juvenile? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #171

tell you what, I told you I'm through bigtree Jun 2014 #178

Cool, please do nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #181

Yes, yes you did nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #190

You were the one calling it a "coronation" upthread! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #185

exactly bigtree Jun 2014 #186

Not sure who you are talking about but they sound like a bully!!! zappaman Jun 2014 #195

If we support her....why do YOU want to shut up the supporters on Democratic Underground VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #183

Apparently some think the Ted Cruz years will be even better BainsBane Jun 2014 #82

Yeah, that'll show Hillary! treestar Jun 2014 #121

As one of 'the people' I can't sit back in an ivory tower for perfection to save the day for me: freshwest Jun 2014 #225

They should have somewhere to express their opinions The Second Stone Jun 2014 #88

Isn't it a bit early to be proclaiming "Hillary or the Highway"? djean111 Jun 2014 #94

Actually, those who embrace Hillary's ... bvar22 Jun 2014 #96

I thought I was clear that those that dislike The Second Stone Jun 2014 #108

That is most hilariously and enlighteningly over the top. Thanks for being so very djean111 Jun 2014 #116

I see that you appreciated my post as it was intended. The Second Stone Jun 2014 #136

fuck that nonense bowens43 Jun 2014 #103

True. And people who vote to nominate a Third Way candidate don't deserve to complain Zorra Jun 2014 #105

that's the rub bigtree Jun 2014 #109

You say "building on and improving the Democratic coalition" Maedhros Jun 2014 #196

no, I meant in terms of policy bigtree Jun 2014 #199

Will you at least concede that the "our party's candidate, right or wrong!" tactic Maedhros Jun 2014 #201

I'm looking at this as a voter bigtree Jun 2014 #209

If this was oh June of 2015... you would have some reason nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #211

This is what I've been saying for years now. antiGOPin294 Jun 2014 #112

And you are right. mylye2222 Jun 2014 #114

Now we have to vote for who you tell us? SomethingFishy Jun 2014 #115

vote for who you want bigtree Jun 2014 #119

If your Dem nominee is just Republican light... SomethingFishy Jun 2014 #122

actually, many of the folks we celebrated as 'liberals' in the past have been thrown under the bus bigtree Jun 2014 #129

When did Hillary win the nomination?` nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #164

The whole sales pitch is that she is a lock and unbeatable TheKentuckian Jun 2014 #182

Same sales pitch as 2006 nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #189

I disagree with that assesement on two grounds. StevieM Jun 2014 #213

Oh people did nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #214

OK, I'll retract the word "anyone." That was a poor word choice on my part. StevieM Jun 2014 #218

The inevitable talk started in 2006 nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #222

Hear, hear! woo me with science Jun 2014 #242

Of course you can do whatever you want Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #125

Would you consider editing your title to start off with "Fine."? aikoaiko Jun 2014 #126

Democrats, you can't like them all dem in texas Jun 2014 #141

why we lose. eat your peas + grow up. pansypoo53219 Jun 2014 #151

You said it! Sancho Jun 2014 #175

I agree, but that won't stop them. Luckily most intelligent people know what is at stake, and will lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #180

that's just it isn't it bigtree Jun 2014 #188

That is right because they realize there is a difference between republicans and Democrats. Nothing lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #210

We are nearly two and a half years away from voting for our party's nominee frazzled Jun 2014 #192

You're right, but DU is not reality. Drama and some information or inspiration, only. freshwest Jun 2014 #231

We'll step aside and watch the vote for a centrist corporatist warhawk... L0oniX Jun 2014 #194

Say "AMEN!" somebody. baldguy Jun 2014 #202

Not to worry, I'll be first in line to vote for Elizabeth Warren fo sho! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #217

Now that is a devisive post. JEB Jun 2014 #229

Our party does not have a nominee. djean111 Jun 2014 #230

How did the 2006 HRC coronation work out for you? HooptieWagon Jun 2014 #232

for me? worked out fine bigtree Jun 2014 #235

Agree, but, let's hold on this for a year. Let's pass the Midterm first (nt) question everything Jun 2014 #236

locking bigtree Jun 2014 #254