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boston bean

(36,941 posts)
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:12 PM Jun 2014

The 8 Biggest Lies Men's Rights Activists Spread About Women [View all]

1. Feminists hate men, and are out to turn the world against them.

Misandry is too often employed as a catch-all to belittle women's arguments surrounding the patriarchy. But, as Shailene Woodley recently discovered, feminism has nothing to do with hating men. Feminists don't like misogyny and sexism, and sometimes men may be proponents of both, unwitting or otherwise. It's important to recognize this when it happens. see link for additional info.


2. Feminists are hypocrites, because chivalry is a female privilege.

There's a popular meme that says feminists call differential treatment chivalry when we like it and sexism when we don't.

This is false. The supposed "perks" of being a lady are largely the result of "benevolent sexism," a set of behaviors shown to be harmful to both women and social activism specifically because people often fail to see them for what they really are: practices steeped in restrictive stereotypes of masculinity and femininity that hinder gender equality by keeping men in a position of dominance over women. see link for additional info.


3. The courts are biased against men and in favor of women in custody disputes.

One of the biggest sticking points for the MRA community is the argument that the courts actively discriminate against men in custody disputes. While it's true that women more often get custody, it's far more complicated than a systematic bias that turns dads into the real victims of custody battles (as opposed to, you know, the children).

Most disputes* are settled out of court, meaning that custody placement does not rest in the hands of judges (most of whom are men, by the way). Just 4% of cases actually go to trial. And mothers often get custody in large part because, on average, they're still the primary caretakers of children. That's not bias, and it's not even necessarily a good thing. It's just a fact. see link for additional info.


4. Male circumcision is just as bad as female genital mutilation.

Thoughtful consideration of the medical and philosophical implications of circumcision are not without merit, but there is no equivalence in terms of harmful long-term effects between slicing off a young girl's clitoris (and in 80% of cases, the entire labia minora as well) and removing a baby's foreskin. Indeed, 15% of global FGM/C cases involve removing all external genitalia, and sewing up the vaginal opening. see link for additional info.


5. Avoiding conscription is a female privilege.

Many feminists don't support conscription — for anyone. But regardless of whether you agree with a draft in theory, it's important to remember that military action (including the decision to go to war in the first place) has been legislated almost entirely by men, and that women historically have shown less support for war.

Moreover, the exclusion of women from the draft was based on essentialist stereotypes that painted them as weak and with a duty to the home. These stereotypes are, yet again, inherent to patriarchy, and a large part of why women in many countries have had to fight for their right to serve today (and, as the Women's Research and Education Institute points out, remain barred from certain positions "necessary or advantageous to advancement and promotion&quot . see link for additional info.



6. Men's media depiction is worse than women's.

Nearly every time an article is published about women's media representation, some commenters will inevitably point out that men get objectified, too. As Men's Journal notes, men are held to increasingly demanding standards of physical masculinity. But — here we go — these standards are again based upon rigid, patriarchal stereotypes of what it means to be a man. And while it's true that men are increasingly seeing chiseled images of their gender in advertising and media (deemed by AdWeek to be "hunkvertising&quot , men do not face equal expectations of physical attractiveness. see link for additional info.



7. False rape allegations are endemic.

No one denies that false accusations are terrible to experience. But the fear some men appear to harbor of being falsely accused is wildly out of sync with the actual rate at which this occurs. Worse, this excessive paranoia can lead to the silencing of survivors — of any gender — who fear they won't be believed if they come forward. see link for additional info.


8. Feminists want to turn everything into rape.

Also inherent to the fear of false rape allegations is the idea that new conceptions of rape are terribly murky and complicated, resulting in the criminalization of "hookup culture" and supposedly well-intentioned guys getting accused of violating willing (read: drunk) women. see link for additional info.


I wanted to try and give a little snippet to each point, but there is a lot more info and explanation at this link:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/90131/the-8-biggest-lies-men-s-rights-activists-spread-about-women

Please try to give it a read prior to responding, so we are all on the same page as to what is being said, with the hope we can have a better conversation.

97 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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k and r and waiting for the usual suspects in 3. . . . 2 . . . 1. . . niyad Jun 2014 #1
That's the bingo board, right there. And niyad is right about the usual suspects. Squinch Jun 2014 #2
a million recs! BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2014 #3
Are you looking for conversation or capitulation? n/t Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #4
If somebody posted a list of lies racists say about people of color would you ask the same question? LeftyMom Jun 2014 #5
So you're looking for absolute capitulation. Got it. And the point of posting this is....? Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #6
If you want a conversation you can start by answering my questions. There were only two of them. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #8
Here are your answers... Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #9
"Men's Rights" activism is an anti-woman movement. If you subscribe to such bigoted notions, there's LeftyMom Jun 2014 #12
You're just as bad as the ones who say the Feminist movement is an anti-man movement. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #16
You're not convincing anybody. Is reddit down or are you just bored? LeftyMom Jun 2014 #18
You sound like a right-winger, you know that? Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #20
See post 15. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #22
No no she doesn't, you're getting all confused CreekDog Jun 2014 #52
No, you are confusing "men's issues" with the so-called Men's Rights Movement. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #80
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #10
are you looking to walk into the thread and simply derail? or are you looking to walk into seabeyond Jun 2014 #11
I'm asking why this gets constant play here at DU. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #13
You're not very good at this. nt LeftyMom Jun 2014 #15
What are you wanting out of this thread? Really, what do you want? Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #19
I realize all of us uppity bitches look alike, but you seem to be unaware that I'm not the OP. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #21
You're very aggressively and actively defending it. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #23
You don't like it when women talk back, do you? LeftyMom Jun 2014 #24
That's not "talking back", that's just being a jerk. n/t Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #25
What do you want for hamfisted threadjacking, a plate of cookies? LeftyMom Jun 2014 #27
If my 7 word response jacked this thread, the OP didn't have much juice, did it? n/t Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #29
At no point have you engaged the substance of the OP. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #39
How could I? LMAO n/t Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #41
If you don't know how to write a counterargument I can't help you. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #45
It has been demonstrated by me saying 7 little words that discussion would never be possible. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #47
"8 lies that women say about men" is not analogous to the OP. redqueen Jun 2014 #26
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #28
You know what? If a person of a different race gave a list of things that racists said about them, redqueen Jun 2014 #31
You folks are the ones acting hateful, aggressive and downright verbally violent. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #34
Ah, the tone argument. redqueen Jun 2014 #36
The ladies. So emotional. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #37
LOL. Love the wiki shield there. Nice try. n/t Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #40
Thanks again for kicking the thread! We really appreciate your help in discrediting MRA arguments. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #43
And when did I say I was trying to "credit" them. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #44
Discussion isn't possible because you're threadjacking. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #48
My original response was to gauge the level of civility in this thread. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #49
Your first post was confrontational, hostile. You had only one goal in mind evident to all seabeyond Jun 2014 #55
Yep, agreed. nt laundry_queen Jun 2014 #58
yes, His Tone brought about the replies. That is what I find interesting about the tone argument Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #86
No she was just describing your tactics canuckledragger Jun 2014 #62
It is you who is acting like a jerk on this thread. Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #68
It took five tries (two already alerted before me) but this user has been escorted from this thread alp227 Jun 2014 #59
I'm surprised it was hidden. I've seen other DUers say similar things, even more directly. redqueen Jun 2014 #60
No. You are the only one saying you must agree and with all. Link to one seabeyond Jun 2014 #53
You might reflect on the definition of a bully seabeyond Jun 2014 #54
It sounds like you're taking the OP waaay too personally. canuckledragger Jun 2014 #61
You will of course allow us the precise and relevant connection between disusing an issue LanternWaste Jun 2014 #66
Their ideas are rejected Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #73
Only certain types of people reject them. nt redqueen Jun 2014 #75
info Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #14
I don't post very often. Your point is what? To bully? Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #17
information is bullying? excuse me. I am sorry I bothered you. Good bye and Peace Out. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #30
No, but the implication was to show what, I have a subscription to the Men's Group. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #32
you do understand an apology when you see one, right? You do understand Good bye and Peace out. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #33
That was no apology. n/t Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #35
eom Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #42
I am aware. I have yet to see a supportive post in regards to women's issues seabeyond Jun 2014 #56
never noticed this paticular poster til this thread. I doubt I ever see anything of substance from Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #85
A combination of shaming and capitulation Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #72
so you too came in to derail, not really address the actual Op. no surprise. right? consistent. seabeyond Jun 2014 #88
If you have arguments against these points or areas to discuss why didn't you present them? el_bryanto Jun 2014 #77
Excellent OP. It's great to have all this in one neat package thucythucy Jun 2014 #7
Great op. bravenak Jun 2014 #38
and right on time, too. I love the punctual ones, don't you, bravenak Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #46
It was perfect timing, it happens everytime like clockwork. bravenak Jun 2014 #50
. boston bean Jun 2014 #83
DEFENDERS OF MEN, UNITE!nt bravenak Jun 2014 #84
feminism has nothing to do with hating men. Leme Jun 2014 #51
Lets me pick some bones with your statements happyslug Jun 2014 #57
As the mom of one male and pipi_k Jun 2014 #63
Which points do you think aren't lies? nt redqueen Jun 2014 #65
I really was hoping pipi_k Jun 2014 #69
I honestly do not even know how to respond to this. redqueen Jun 2014 #74
Guys have to get use to being kicked, I was by my older sisters.... happyslug Jun 2014 #87
if a woman strikes, she should be charged with assault. a girls in school assaults, it should seabeyond Jun 2014 #90
We have to go with tendency not exceptions. happyslug Jun 2014 #93
i do not agree with you. raising two boys... nephews and nieces and my own experiences. seabeyond Jun 2014 #94
Cooperation has nothing to do with a person's sex. redqueen Jun 2014 #64
I want freedom from the patriarchy - not equality within it. seabeyond Jun 2014 #91
Could you provide a citation for one of your points? el_bryanto Jun 2014 #79
Good post Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #92
I disagree with nearly all your points because your avoiding the issues being raised. equalityed Jun 2014 #95
welcome to du. MRA points and all seabeyond Jun 2014 #96
No shit. ismnotwasm Jun 2014 #97
Anyone who claims that male circumcision is "just as bad" as female genital mutilation Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #67
Fascinating trumad Jun 2014 #70
This article is pretty easy to pick apart Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #71
Did you even read your links? Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #78
Good article - thanks for posting. nt el_bryanto Jun 2014 #76
"with the hope we can have a better conversation" mokawanis Jun 2014 #81
Did you hear the one about the men's rights group that raised $25K to protect themselves KamaAina Jun 2014 #82
Thanks for this post. redqueen Jun 2014 #89
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