General Discussion

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)

151. I had a conversation along those lines recently

Fri Jun 13, 2014, 04:44 PM

Jun 2014

I have a friend who is worried about her grandson because he is trying to pursue a career as a Rap musician. We agreed that when young Black men search for success, so many see their opportunities for greatness to be limited to entertainment and athletics.

Ben Carson and Herman Cain hold themselves up as an exception do to their considerable personal talents. At the same time spouting the white elitist talking points about other Blacks.

Why don't young Black men get the impression that they can achieve greatness without fame? Architecture, engineering, various scientific fields don't seem to be a part of what they see as successful careers regardless of their talents and interests. Where are the "colorblind" mentors that are available to white men and women?

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White People Think One Black Person's Success Proves Racism Is Over [View all] bravenak Jun 2014 OP

Not all white people! TexasProgresive Jun 2014 #1

LOL!nt bravenak Jun 2014 #2

Do you ever Livluvgrow Jun 2014 #3

You can ignore me. bravenak Jun 2014 #4

Besides racism what issues do you point out? Livluvgrow Jun 2014 #8

I did not write it. A white woman did. I guess she's guilty of whatever you think it is. bravenak Jun 2014 #12

I noticed that - that it was written by a white woman JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #30

Yes to everything you said.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #34

read this op/thread by MrScorpio JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #35

Thank you.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #38

Have you questioned ANY other DU ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #134

What's wrong with pointing out racism? Isn't that important enough? fishwax Jun 2014 #223

"Doesn't seem that way to me" I didn't think so, either, at first.....nt AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #317

If you're secure in your own "non-racism" why does this thread bother you? Ken Burch Jun 2014 #328

Fixating on the trees and missing the forest... TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #125

Ridiculous. bravenak Jun 2014 #126

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #135

Jesus Christ! bravenak Jun 2014 #163

You dont have to be interested in the future... it will come regardless of you. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #169

It's not that i have no vision of the future. bravenak Jun 2014 #170

Again, you make the point. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #173

So i'll just pretend that none of the bad stuff exists. bravenak Jun 2014 #175

Your efforts are better used elsewhere. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #179

You do realize that i heard about him years ago? bravenak Jun 2014 #184

I am so sorry for your loss, bravenak. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #227

Thank you, i got through it. bravenak Jun 2014 #228

And that makes me want to cry. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #230

Had to leave my ex so that it never happened again. bravenak Jun 2014 #231

hugs to you RainDog Jun 2014 #248

I wasn't trying to make you sad. bravenak Jun 2014 #256

I'm sorry for your loss. Jamastiene Jun 2014 #251

Thank you.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #255

I too am sorry for your loss... TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #266

I'll be dead by 2050. bravenak Jun 2014 #269

Well, good luck then. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #272

Science Fiction. bravenak Jun 2014 #278

What you are describing LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #157

Youll excuse me if I give more weight to someone with a tad more credibility than you? TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #168

You are the one who is anti-science LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #181

Thank you. n/t Jamastiene Jun 2014 #252

It's obvious you misunderstand the 2nd law. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #265

It sounds like you are saying everything is Jamastiene Jun 2014 #250

Transitory issue that will soon be gone? liberalhistorian Jun 2014 #275

No, this is an important issue. ananda Jun 2014 #28

You've stated this very well ananda JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #31

Excellent point, i will look forward to reading your other stuff here randys1 Jun 2014 #107

. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #129

Well ... Not ALL threatened white folks do that! ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #136

Pfttt. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #37

Well stated! nyabingi Jun 2014 #66

well said! Blue_Roses Jun 2014 #69

+1 nt laundry_queen Jun 2014 #104

BTW, I neglected to tell you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #139

I've actually seen that commercial again since, and paid more attention to it. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #153

"Apparently the OP doesn't talk about racism as much as I thought" Not from my experience. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #318

Seems like YOU like to put words in people's mouths. canuckledragger Jun 2014 #50

does have have to think of anything else? why or why not? tia uponit7771 Jun 2014 #91

Wow, you didnt even try and discuss the OP and the real and important issues therein randys1 Jun 2014 #105

What a steaming load of self-serving crap. (nt) Heidi Jun 2014 #137

Couldn't have said it better. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #236

Actually to the contrary, truthfully speaking. nt AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #322

Either there is an airline liberalhistorian Jun 2014 #274

The author of the OP AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #295

This is quite a problem indeed, Livluvgrow. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #316

Why is it important to you to DISCOURAGE threads about racism? Ken Burch Jun 2014 #327

I get along very well with Bravenak BainsBane Jun 2014 #340

this article came through my facebook newsfeed via "the nation" moments after i saw this thread! m-lekktor Jun 2014 #5

Yes. It will be very interesting. bravenak Jun 2014 #11

I'd take that as a complement. thucythucy Jun 2014 #106

Well then thank you, i will try to see it like that.nt. bravenak Jun 2014 #109

You are Black, therefore you are suppose to ask permission first so as not to upset randys1 Jun 2014 #110

I know. bravenak Jun 2014 #111

There are many SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #6

Yeah I am not on board with putting down Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #7

But you see Livluvgrow Jun 2014 #9

What are you people talking about? betsuni Jun 2014 #19

I had a "wth" feeling reading some of the comments...agree with your sentiments. Deuce Jun 2014 #71

I'm with you wryter2000 Jun 2014 #143

where is "putting down people for success" in the OP? I must have missed it bettyellen Jun 2014 #96

Hmm. That isn't my recollection BainsBane Jun 2014 #337

Does anyone realize that i do not write these articles?nt bravenak Jun 2014 #10

I thank you for posting theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #13

I really have only been posting stuff for like a week. bravenak Jun 2014 #14

Doesn't it ever! KitSileya Jun 2014 #16

You can't. bravenak Jun 2014 #17

Even if it was Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #20

I don't think some people read them anyway when they post. bravenak Jun 2014 #23

I don't see it that way. ananda Jun 2014 #29

your comment makes me angry as hell, but I dont want to be banned so that is all i will say randys1 Jun 2014 #121

I read, then re-read ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #140

how do you figure? fishwax Jun 2014 #224

Yeah when Clarence Thomas became Ichingcarpenter Jun 2014 #15

LOL! Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #130

Duzy wryter2000 Jun 2014 #142

Stop dividing DU with posts that point out racism. boston bean Jun 2014 #18

I know, right? bravenak Jun 2014 #21

Yeah join the club of the perpetually accused of dividing the always undivided DU. boston bean Jun 2014 #22

Well i should stick to the 'real' issues that they care about. bravenak Jun 2014 #24

Those are the only ones worthy of discussion I suppose. boston bean Jun 2014 #26

I wish that were the case, but it ain't. bravenak Jun 2014 #33

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #141

Lol, that is funny. Jamastiene Jun 2014 #253

Study abstract Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #25

Not that I doubt the study, but where are the numbers? WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #43

The citation is there Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #75

Here's a no-paywall link to the study caraher Jun 2014 #77

Did you read it? I have a real problem with a study that states from the start what WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #222

I think you're not following how papers are written or the implications of the results caraher Jun 2014 #235

Yes I did read it. And yes they clearly state that they keep moving the goal post to accommodate WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #344

That is the way you are characterizing it. Jamastiene Jun 2014 #254

No it's not the way I am characterizing it. I have 2 medical degrees WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #343

That's the abstract ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #144

Donald Sterling proved that racism still exists. Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #27

We don't tolerate vulgar racism. bravenak Jun 2014 #32

This is it exactly - it's about the Pavlovian Dogs JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #36

There will always be SOME racists in every country. 7962 Jun 2014 #45

Ours is loud JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #70

our racist attitudes in the US are loud and proud... there would be no GOP without racism now uponit7771 Jun 2014 #93

Or, assuming that that PoC ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #145

Heh. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #39

Society does tolerate racism and sexism too much. Racism doesn't have to rise to the level of the N uponit7771 Jun 2014 #92

Just like ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #146

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2014 #154

Not publicly and/or overtly. Jamastiene Jun 2014 #348

What a bad headline, an untrue one at that. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #40

A White Woman Wrote The Headline And The Article.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #41

Don't care who wrote it. And she should be criticized as well. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #48

Funny how much these articles upset you. bravenak Jun 2014 #51

Nice try. Don't respond to points actually made, try a straw man. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #55

You seem angry that i posted this. You should contact the writer.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #56

I am not the one posting bait. And that you try to pull the emotional card is classic. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #73

You need to calm down.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #74

DING DING DING you get a lollipop randys1 Jun 2014 #112

Agreed Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #115

It's not bravenak's headline - blame it on those rascals at Huffpo! JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #44

Because it makes her/them "feel" good about how progressive they are. 7962 Jun 2014 #46

Or she isn't really a Progressive JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #49

That may be true, unfortunately. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #319

Well that is a tough one, no let me think. Oh yeah, increased traffic. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #52

No she's not JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #57

Really?? A post is made with a headline that smells like bait, WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #76

Not it's not JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #82

Adding she 'bolded' the word Conservative in the op JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #84

Bait? where is the cliche thread, i wanna add "bait" randys1 Jun 2014 #113

I'm sorry , bait and switch, or in this case bait and denial. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #345

"Not All Men!", the men proclaimed. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #147

Because before Obama, no black person had EVER become a success? Jeeze. 7962 Jun 2014 #42

True - but it set white people on the Right off JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #53

But I heard the same shit after Clinton won; Socialism was coming! The end of our country! etc 7962 Jun 2014 #102

I don't know - think there is one difference JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #114

In 1994 - another thought JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #118

Uh - William Bennett - conservative pundit . . . JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #47

It's bad because of who posted it. bravenak Jun 2014 #54

No - I think JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #59

Yep. I think so. bravenak Jun 2014 #60

Give me just one reason JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #62

Not ready yet. bravenak Jun 2014 #65

I fear whiny progressives not voting cuz a Black person hurt their feelings too randys1 Jun 2014 #122

oh randy! JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #123

Whiny progressives voted in 2010... WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #333

With regard to what Bennett said, I believe Colin Powell would've won in 2K 7962 Jun 2014 #131

The Family, Dobson, Devos, etc. etc. JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #132

I wouldve preferred Harold Ford too. nt 7962 Jun 2014 #149

Recommend. There is no question when Bennet, and I believe he represents the opportunistic Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #58

Conservatives look for any excuse to do nothing. bravenak Jun 2014 #63

The opportunity to erase their culpability and he damn well knows this to be true. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #67

Excellent article bravenak! So true. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #61

It's not the color of your skin but rather ignorance that makes that claim liberal N proud Jun 2014 #64

stop the denial and quibbling rustbeltvoice Jun 2014 #68

I also did not find the article to be extreme. bravenak Jun 2014 #72

Great article! octoberlib Jun 2014 #78

I knew it was bull too. bravenak Jun 2014 #81

I don't know why people are complaining about this gollygee Jun 2014 #79

I bolded conservative. bravenak Jun 2014 #80

That was smart JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #83

I had promised to make sure it said conservative in the future. bravenak Jun 2014 #85

Hmmmm....I was *wondering* what "white people think". n/t Smarmie Doofus Jun 2014 #86

Yup. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #87

Bill Cosby does it too. bravenak Jun 2014 #88

C'mon people JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #90

Succesful black men at their apex Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #271

I asked you not to discuss race with me. bravenak Jun 2014 #277

You started this thread Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #292

I love you. bravenak Jun 2014 #293

Ahh I read about those comments JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #89

Maybe not so new. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #94

Tina Turner too JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #95

And not Tyler Perry! Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #98

My husband knows Lenny JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #100

Very good to hear. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #101

Oh stop, I already love you too much Gen. bettyellen Jun 2014 #156

I don't. treestar Jun 2014 #97

Even John McCain forgot that he was an exchange. bravenak Jun 2014 #99

Yes. And then he has the gall treestar Jun 2014 #148

That is exactly what i was trying to say the other day. bravenak Jun 2014 #162

Neil DeGrasse Tyson had a very interesting point IronLionZion Jun 2014 #103

I think about it too. bravenak Jun 2014 #108

I had a conversation along those lines recently loyalsister Jun 2014 #151

There is some truth to that. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #320

I remember laundry_queen Jun 2014 #116

Thank you. bravenak Jun 2014 #117

That's very much like here laundry_queen Jun 2014 #138

I can't figure out what the "controversary" or disagreement is with this article .....? etherealtruth Jun 2014 #119

I have no idea why it is now controversial.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #120

+1 n/t fishwax Jun 2014 #225

Institutional and societal racism, white on Black, is rampant in America today randys1 Jun 2014 #124

That's their main focus. bravenak Jun 2014 #127

I'd just like to take a moment to say Bill Bennet is a racist, homophobic hypocrite Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #128

+1 nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #237

For a Black person to reach the higher nyabingi Jun 2014 #133

Really?!?!?!?!? I must be out of the loop 'cuz I'm from the South. I never got the memo! N/T Ghost in the Machine Jun 2014 #150

If racism is holding black people from success, SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #152

Your post illustrates the point of the OP perfectly! etherealtruth Jun 2014 #155

So you can't SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #159

No, you are truly not worth the effort it would take etherealtruth Jun 2014 #160

Attacking me personally SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #161

One black persons success does not mean racism is over. bravenak Jun 2014 #165

Are you suggesting that only one black person has been successful? SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #172

I am suggesting that is harder if you are Black. bravenak Jun 2014 #176

This is exactly what the article described etherealtruth Jun 2014 #189

I think that most people who play this game know exactly what they are doing. bravenak Jun 2014 #190

Of course they do etherealtruth Jun 2014 #195

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #260

LOL, that you think that raising a question about an anomaly like Thompson proves anything.... bettyellen Jun 2014 #166

How is Mr. Thompson SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #174

He's an anomaly because his success counters the mountains of statistical data... Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #204

eggs-actly! mountains of data compiled for decades. bettyellen Jun 2014 #234

Racism has held many black people from success ... kwassa Jun 2014 #182

Poverty isn't exclusive to blacks. SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #203

Poverty created by racism is exclusive to minorities in the US. kwassa Jun 2014 #205

The poster you are responding to doesn't understand proportionality. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #208

Well, SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #209

Where is my role model? Show me. kwassa Jun 2014 #213

Imagine if SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #217

It isn't just mindset. It is also skills and education, and access to that education. kwassa Jun 2014 #220

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #259

Which amounts to a proportion of black Americans in poverty at TWICE the rate of white Americans. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #206

Who helped SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #210

Do you have even the foggiest understanding of systemic racism? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #211

Yes I do. SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #215

No, you don't. You don't understand. But you think you do. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #219

... nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #239

Don Thompson SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #261

Do you even read what I post before responding? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #284

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #286

Are you willfully ignoring or are you actually incapable of understanding what I'm saying? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #287

...The face of poverty is overwhelmingly white... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #218

So who's going to pull SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #262

ROFL gollygee Jun 2014 #187

Jesus Christ. This is why we can't have nice things. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #201

If it's not racism then what is it? C'mon, don't be shy now! nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #238

Same reason I'm not SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #263

And why are you so comfortable applying such a broad generalization to millions of people? nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #273

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #280

Of course they did. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #281

Not at all. SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #285

"We're all the same color between the ears." - Again, sentimental bullshit. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #289

There are always those who appear well-intentioned, but don't think through the implications nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #291

Sure it can be overcome, but it shouldn't *have* to be overcome in the first place. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #290

Ayn Rand still lives, huh? nt alp227 Jun 2014 #298

You're basically the personification of those stupid motivational posters in office cubicles. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #288

Actually for me it was just the opposite, after Obama was elected I discovered Rex Jun 2014 #158

It got worse after the election. bravenak Jun 2014 #164

Yup. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #221

I'm sure Reginald Denny agrees. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #167

Do you have a point? bravenak Jun 2014 #171

Yeah, I just posted it. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #178

I did. bravenak Jun 2014 #180

Sorry. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #185

Who are you? bravenak Jun 2014 #188

I'm RiffRandell! RiffRandell Jun 2014 #192

I was born in 81. bravenak Jun 2014 #193

Like, oh my Gawd! That like, totally sucks! RiffRandell Jun 2014 #197

I'll check it out! bravenak Jun 2014 #199

Totally! RiffRandell Jun 2014 #200

So, Reginald Denny commented on this article? Where did he do that? kwassa Jun 2014 #186

That was in my post. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #191

False. Denny's opinion on the incident was not in your post. kwassa Jun 2014 #198

Then fucking post it and correct me. nt RiffRandell Jun 2014 #202

Here you go. kwassa Jun 2014 #207

Nice! RiffRandell Jun 2014 #212

Now there's a big fat crock. babylonsister Jun 2014 #177

In my area too, but against Native Americans. bravenak Jun 2014 #196

That, I explain, trying to be gentle, is what tokenism is for Warpy Jun 2014 #183

Yes i agree. bravenak Jun 2014 #194

Trick headline in OP. GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #214

You should post a link to the study. bravenak Jun 2014 #216

I posted a link upthread caraher Jun 2014 #232

Thank you.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #233

Unrec. - plain untrue and stupid. 840high Jun 2014 #226

and you base this on what? kwassa Jun 2014 #229

If the answer requires more than Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #268

Agreed Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #276

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #240

LOL! bravenak Jun 2014 #241

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #242

So, is there a limit to the amount and type of articles i can post? bravenak Jun 2014 #243

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #244

You should post more. bravenak Jun 2014 #245

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #246

The answer is more diversity and communication. bravenak Jun 2014 #247

Great list, bravenak! Cha Jun 2014 #249

Thanks for the results. bravenak Jun 2014 #257

It's only fair. Here in Hawai'i the Hawaiians want Cha Jun 2014 #258

It's funny ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #264

It is funny. bravenak Jun 2014 #282

That post was hidden and eventually auto-removed. alp227 Jun 2014 #301

I know what's going on. bravenak Jun 2014 #302

Black People Think....(fill in with meaningless generalization) /nt Armstead Jun 2014 #267

If that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #270

It's worse than that. They fear the loss of white male privilege. A lot of white folks McCamy Taylor Jun 2014 #279

But to hear it told ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #283

If you are ever in Orlando, look me up. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #300

Another blanket accusation of racism against whites AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #294

I bolded conservative for you this time. bravenak Jun 2014 #296

"White People Think" AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #303

You think i wrote this? bravenak Jun 2014 #304

This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Jun 2014 #306

You aren't fooling anyone AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #307

I am not the one who is a racist. bravenak Jun 2014 #308

When someone AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #309

This article is about conservatives. I BOLDED it. bravenak Jun 2014 #310

I like the way you posted it with the bolding steve2470 Jun 2014 #311

Thank you, i will continue to bold key words. bravenak Jun 2014 #313

"I KNOW I have white privilege" "White privilege" doesn't exist as a tangible thing, Steve. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #321

ok we disagree, have a good night nt steve2470 Jun 2014 #325

And ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #330

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #312

You need to stop attacking me. bravenak Jun 2014 #314

You are deflecting AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #315

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #331

Yes. bravenak Jun 2014 #335

It's based on a study. THINK, don't frame. alp227 Jun 2014 #334

I don't take it that way BainsBane Jun 2014 #336

It's funny ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #342

Jury Results = Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #332

That should have been hidden BainsBane Jun 2014 #339

Agreed. N/t Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #341

Don't talk about racism or the experiences of people of color BainsBane Jun 2014 #338

bennett is an idiot. spanone Jun 2014 #297

He always has been.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #299

I agree, he is. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #323

Just the dumb ones. JNelson6563 Jun 2014 #305

That's true. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #324

I agree with every word. JNelson6563 Jun 2014 #329

A large number do. Ken Burch Jun 2014 #326

This message was self-deleted by its author mia Jun 2014 #346

My whole family has this advantage in varying degrees. bravenak Jun 2014 #347