General Discussion

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)

71. Most government's would be pissed if you made a proposal for them to give up territory to "rebels"

Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:28 AM

Jun 2014

Especially since in the end, you'd be asking the dominant faction that's been unwilling to share to give up a sizable portion of the country.

"Let them come to an agreement about splitting up the country" is theoretically a fine idea, just like "let them come to an agreement about sharing power" or "let them come to an agreement about disarming militants and becoming a full-fledged democracy." If "they" could come to an agreement, "they" wouldn't be shooting each other. A proposal to break up the country coming from the US doesn't seem to do anything to make the different factions agree, which is something we've been working on for years. It doesn't solve the underlying issues anymore than arguing that there should be 2 Palestinian states instead of one solves the Israeli/Palestinian impasse.

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Should Iraq be Divided Into Three Nations? [View all] Uncle Joe Jun 2014 OP

You and Joe Biden (more or less.) elleng Jun 2014 #1

Well that seems logical to me, elleng, if the Iraqi People are open to the idea. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #2

Yes, Joe. elleng Jun 2014 #3

Actually, Peter Galbraith is the person who initiated that and cali Jun 2014 #62

The Kurds would probably prefer Kirkuk to be their capital. Kaleva Jun 2014 #4

That might simplify matters, only needing to divide Baghdad in to two instead of three. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #5

Yes. n/t jaysunb Jun 2014 #6

Biden wanted to divide it into three autonomous regions aint_no_life_nowhere Jun 2014 #7

It seems to me trying to force people with so much enmity toward one another to be one nation Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #11

He was attacked from more places than the right. elleng Jun 2014 #16

Yes, I remember that. It might have been possible, but difficult. Maybe better than the chaos now. northoftheborder Jun 2014 #34

Yes I've felt that way for years....... Takket Jun 2014 #8

Exactly TexasBushwhacker Jun 2014 #10

There in lies the rub....3 distinct groups of people ...2 major oil fields... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #31

The one's with the most strength ... oldhippie Jun 2014 #72

I believe that will involve difficult negotiations but it will be far easier Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #13

- Takket Jun 2014 #14

if that's what it will take to having the best chance for lasting peace JI7 Jun 2014 #9

Probably.. sendero Jun 2014 #12

Does anyone supporting this know anything about partitions? They get very bloody. fujiyama Jun 2014 #15

The way I see it, we have two choices, do as you suggest and just let the people fight over Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #17

Thanks for responding so nicely, Joe. elleng Jun 2014 #18

Peace to you, elleng. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #19

It'll most likely be fragmented anyways fujiyama Jun 2014 #51

It will probably take more than one facilitator. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #55

I suppose it is worth a diplomatic effort to get various represenatives to sit down fujiyama Jun 2014 #58

The way I see it, this lack of secular leadership is all the more reason Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #60

My god....first she is "unlikeable" and the twofer "she makes Joe Biden looks bright" VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #36

"To most of them religion comes first, family comes second, tribe comes third." Stereotype much? pampango Jun 2014 #66

Fuck, I don't know. I'm not Iraqi. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #20

We wouldn't be "telling them" we would be facilitating negotiations between the major parties Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #22

I'm sure if they decided on a neutral third party to facilate negotiations it would be anybody else. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #23

If that's what it takes, I'm all for it. n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #26

Why don't we just get out - for real this time - and see if it happens? rug Jun 2014 #21

If the Iraqi's could negotiate a satisfactory division, both geographical and political Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #24

I doubt it. But the key word there is "satisfactory". rug Jun 2014 #27

Satisfactory could also be separate nations entirely, and if they want to join up with Iran or Syria Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #32

I wish them luck. rug Jun 2014 #33

Some possible results: brooklynite Jun 2014 #25

Re: scenarios 1 and 2, I don't care, if that's what the people want, let them have it. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #29

Turkey will not permit a Kurdistan Peregrine Jun 2014 #28

Not up to us lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #30

It's partially up to us but ultimately up to the people of Iraq. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #35

the same problem remains....3 distinct peoples....2 major oil fields.... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #37

Oil fields can be negotiated along with borders and access to the gulf. n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #39

hmmm we shall see.... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #42

If I am not mistaken these groups were put together as a nation by outsiders not all that long ago. jwirr Jun 2014 #38

I believe sometimes, that's the only answer, jwirr. n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #41

Iraq was a country invented by the British after WWI out of a piece of kwassa Jun 2014 #40

That's my take on it as well, kwassa. n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #43

These aren't 3 homogenous groups you're talking about. Chathamization Jun 2014 #44

And they're not all sitting on equal amounts of oil wealth, LeftyMom Jun 2014 #45

What's the alternative? n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #46

What's the alternative to a US invasion of the Ukraine? Just let Russia annex it? N/T Chathamization Jun 2014 #49

I'm not speaking of Ukraine, this is about Iraq, what should we do? n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #50

The point was, if an idea is worse than the status quo, the status quo is preferable, even if it's Chathamization Jun 2014 #67

The Iraqi government shouldn't be pissed at nothing but Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #70

Most government's would be pissed if you made a proposal for them to give up territory to "rebels" Chathamization Jun 2014 #71

If they agree to splitting up the country, they won't be subject to each others' fundamental Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #76

I think the trillions could have been spent better LLD Jun 2014 #47

I agree, LLD, as three nations, they wouldn't have to worry about that. n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #48

Baghdad has apparently self-partitioned. moondust Jun 2014 #52

I believe that's a good idea, moondust. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #56

What should happen and what TPTB want Nevernose Jun 2014 #53

Iran would like to merge with southern Iraq, Saudi Arabia would like to merge Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #57

Or, the people of the regions could decide their fate for themselves..without our "help". Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #54

They will be deciding their own fate regardless, the only question my OP is presenting Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #59

Mass ethnic cleansing would probably result. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #61

Should the United States be? Let's ask the Iraqis! WinkyDink Jun 2014 #63

That's the point of this thread. n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #68

Oh. Didn't see any allusion to the USA's BEING SPLIT into 3 parts in the OP. WinkyDink Jun 2014 #74

The point of this thread, was asking the Iraqis if they would rather be three nations. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #75

Look, I can read very well. Apparently my sarcasm talent failed me this time. So let me be clear: WinkyDink Jun 2014 #85

Sure and it should also be implemented in many other countries too. Exposethefrauds Jun 2014 #64

Which nation gets the oil fields, is B Calm Jun 2014 #65

That's what the negotiations would be all about. n/t Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #69

Yes Shankapotomus Jun 2014 #73

Absolutely. Blue_In_AK Jun 2014 #77

No, no more US solutions sadoldgirl Jun 2014 #78

We helped make the mess and I believe it will take more than one facilitator, if Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #80

Divided by whom? Iggo Jun 2014 #79

By the people of Iraq, moondust had a good idea up thread about Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #81

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jun 2014 #82

Reading the thread is your friend. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #86

i think that will likely be the end result but a lot of blood will first be shed La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2014 #83

Not three nations but three self-governing regions with a central govt in Baghdad.. DCBob Jun 2014 #84