General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

45. You don't have to look to the minor parties.

Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:38 PM

Jun 2014

Dennis Kucinich unequivocally condemned the war. Unfortunately, he was getting around two or three percent of the vote. A big part of the problem is how the corporate media frame the debate -- Kucinich's views on Iraq and many other issues were in line with those of a big chunk of the public (especially Democratic primary voters), but the media had told people that Kucinich wasn't a serious candidate. That became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Minor parties are a terrible idea because that effect is even stronger. When the media tell people that a minor-party candidate has no hope of winning, it's almost always true even aside from the self-fulfilling aspect. A minor-party candidate who actually had widespread popular support could win the primary of the major party that was closer to his or her views.

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Contrast pre-Iraq war views of Bob Graham and the Clintons. We need to remember. [View all] madfloridian Jun 2014 OP

it remains to be seen which will recover first - this country from reagan or the dem party from the KG Jun 2014 #1

She is shameless. and contemptible and Clinton engages in raw historical revisionism. cali Jun 2014 #2

how are you going to vote for her if she wins the Primary while speaking the heinous stuff VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #13

I opine. You call it "spewing"- which is fine. Your opinion is worth little to me. cali Jun 2014 #17

you don't opine....you spew vile hatred of the woman day in and day out.... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #61

Shameless you say? Let's look at the evidence. A Simple Game Jun 2014 #20

"Historical revisionism" is a generous description of her many "Misspeaks" Divernan Jun 2014 #30

you're accusing her of revisionism using a mix of charges from a right wing source bigtree Jun 2014 #36

You resort to name calling when you cannot refute a single charge. Hmmmmm. Divernan Jun 2014 #53

no. I pointing to your reliance on a well-known republican sympathizer for your 'facts' bigtree Jun 2014 #56

And that's because you can't refute a single instance. Sad. Divernan Jun 2014 #58

no. It's because you're promoting right-wing bullshit bigtree Jun 2014 #59

Dude, nobody needs to refute any claim by Dick Morris MohRokTah Jun 2014 #63

Let me help you out on Dick Morris and his lack of credibility toward the Clintons. madfloridian Jun 2014 #73

I agree with you on Dick Morris as a source. madfloridian Jun 2014 #67

in the history biz it's called MisterP Jun 2014 #46

that has its origins in holocaust denial bigtree Jun 2014 #52

Not I rock Jun 2014 #64

won't you please tell us how you really feel. WhiteTara Jun 2014 #70

It's a shame that it turned out the way it did. Turbineguy Jun 2014 #3

It's a crime that the U.S. invaded Iraq under false pretenses cali Jun 2014 #4

It was yes. Turbineguy Jun 2014 #7

it's not a shame, it's was inevitable. no enterprise based on such craven deceit could ever KG Jun 2014 #6

I take a less fatalistic view. Turbineguy Jun 2014 #9

The Iraqi people are victims. madfloridian Jun 2014 #10

In October 2002 Bob Graham begged fellow senators to read the "entire" NIE on WMDs. madfloridian Jun 2014 #5

Graham should be the one on the Sunday morning shows. Justice Jun 2014 #22

Can't help but think, based tom_kelly Jun 2014 #23

Are you serious - what an idiot. Justice Jun 2014 #24

It boggles my mind that this country Vattel Jun 2014 #8

This country does field serious candidates for the presidency that can unequivocally A Simple Game Jun 2014 #16

Fair enough, I guess it depends on how you define serious. Vattel Jun 2014 #26

You don't have to look to the minor parties. Jim Lane Jun 2014 #45

Kucinich never made it through the primaries, I am unaffiliated so don't consider A Simple Game Jun 2014 #65

I already answered your question. Jim Lane Jun 2014 #69

"When did we become a nation that ignores and berates our friends and calls them irrelevant?" KeepItReal Jun 2014 #11

I was just watching the last one. madfloridian Jun 2014 #40

Kerry on Iraq ctsnowman Jun 2014 #12

From the OP 90-percent Jun 2014 #14

Well then... madfloridian Jun 2014 #15

I will not vote for Hillary. Katashi_itto Jun 2014 #18

Pretty similar to Howard Dean's position back in the day, huh? wyldwolf Jun 2014 #19

No, not really. madfloridian Jun 2014 #41

yeah, I must have missed it. wyldwolf Jun 2014 #43

That's why I have credibility in recognizing the same kind of adoration now. madfloridian Jun 2014 #44

Well, looks like Dean has taken his twitter private. madfloridian Jun 2014 #74

No, that is actually a materially different (though arguably a potentially equally stupid) position TheKentuckian Jun 2014 #42

"Freedom" for whom, exactly. To do *what*, exactly? Smarmie Doofus Jun 2014 #21

Did we save the receipt Union Scribe Jun 2014 #25

If you're damned if you do and damned if you don't... Iggo Jun 2014 #27

Invading someone's country, killing and torturing their people, destroying their country AND sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #28

I don't know any Democrats personally who will vote for Hillary Oilwellian Jun 2014 #29

I know plenty of Democrats personally who like Hillary a lot bigtree Jun 2014 #32

If DU's an echo chamber & HRC has a lock on the nomination, why are you here? Divernan Jun 2014 #33

that line about a lock isn't mine - but she's got a good start for the nomination bigtree Jun 2014 #34

I explicitly explained why I perceived your statement as disparaging. Divernan Jun 2014 #35

I'll call it volatile, just so you can move on. bigtree Jun 2014 #39

"Volatile" is also disparaging. You really need to use a dictionary! Divernan Jun 2014 #57

I suppose it is. I stand by the word. bigtree Jun 2014 #60

Clinton got 17.5 million votes in 2008 wyldwolf Jun 2014 #47

the last quotes were fine. They referred to Iraqis taking responsibility for their own security bigtree Jun 2014 #31

I did not have to "strain" to find differences. They were very real. madfloridian Jun 2014 #37

it's a stretch to look for differences in her desire to end the occupation bigtree Jun 2014 #38

Hard to believe an apology? joshcryer Jun 2014 #48

This was a vote that affected all of us, affected the world's stability, our country's reputation. madfloridian Jun 2014 #49

She voted for the war because it was expedient. She apologized for her vote for the same reason. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #50

And neva forget it; the last thing we need is anotha warmonger in the White House (biggest reason we chose Obama over Hillary). InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #76

When it comes to the Clintons, I really don't know what they believe... Drunken Irishman Jun 2014 #51

Some of us remember the same story (believe it or not) about Vietnam! Sancho Jun 2014 #54

Oh, no! madfloridian Jun 2014 #55

Bill Clinton should have known better. moondust Jun 2014 #62

President Obama is certainly damned if he does. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #66

GTFO IS a good option. Then, help America lead by example, not violence. If we can ever lead again. grahamhgreen Jun 2014 #68

Kick FloriTexan Jun 2014 #71

Thanks. madfloridian Jun 2014 #72

I wonder if Bill Clinton has seen the Rachel Maddow documentary? Hissyspit Jun 2014 #75

That statement was hard to believe. madfloridian Jun 2014 #77