General Discussion

DrDan

(20,411 posts)

83. I am not trying to be difficult - but I do not think the Michigan law says that at all.

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 07:26 AM

Apr 2012

It seems to boil down to the few seconds before the shooting - did the shooter feel threatened. It makes no difference what happened before that - as long as no laws were being broken. It does not matter who was the aggressor as long as within the law.

". . . . if I am the one who is attacked" - that could be the aggressor as perhaps is the case with Zimmerman.

It all boils down to the few seconds before the shooting - did one (either one) feel threatened.

Anyway - any cases in Michigan that shed more light on this?

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on edit - pehaps we view who is the agressor differently. For example, with this particular case, lets say Zimmerman follows Martin - Martin feels cornered and attacks in self-defense. I consider Zimmerman to be the aggressor. Perhaps you see Martin as the aggressor as he attacked Zimmerman?

Zimmerman imo was the aggressor in following Martin - but was breaking no laws - hence within the bounds of the MI law.

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Mark my words... Zimmerman will walk. [View all] TBA Apr 2012 OP

This is worrying Spacedog1973 Apr 2012 #1

you do know there are more than 20 states with similar laws . . . . DrDan Apr 2012 #2

Yea... But I live in Florida TBA Apr 2012 #3

as do I DrDan Apr 2012 #14

Actually, it's more than 40 states with similar laws. TheWraith Apr 2012 #27

Isn't that highly subjective? Hugabear Apr 2012 #43

Not really in 'law' terms laundry_queen Apr 2012 #63

I never presume to think what "high educated, intelligent" people might think Hugabear Apr 2012 #65

Ooo you got my typo. laundry_queen Apr 2012 #76

Well, maybe, bit the only person who could tell the other side hifiguy Apr 2012 #69

Similar does not mean the same Major Nikon Apr 2012 #55

Iwas hoping your citation would support your claim so I could see why Florida stands out - it fails DrDan Apr 2012 #61

Read the actual laws carefully Major Nikon Apr 2012 #62

I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me to be saying the same thing - DrDan Apr 2012 #74

This... Major Nikon Apr 2012 #75

I am not trying to be difficult - but I do not think the Michigan law says that at all. DrDan Apr 2012 #83

If Zimmerman is not lying about what happened (I know, a big if), he shouldn't be arrested. Vattel Apr 2012 #4

Seein' as we're talkin' 'bout "ifs"... ret5hd Apr 2012 #11

Depends on what the details are. Vattel Apr 2012 #15

If Zimmerman touched him first then Zimmerman is guilty of murder Logical Apr 2012 #18

None of the evidence...zero percent, none...supports anything Zimmerman has said Amerigo Vespucci Apr 2012 #35

Wrong, HE was the aggressor, Trayvon is the one who, had he succeeded in disabling him even sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #57

One reason Oneka Apr 2012 #68

Except there is a witness, his girlfriend states that he was approached and may have had sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #72

I hope it gets Oneka Apr 2012 #73

very well said. i believe the cultural norms based on racial stereotypes have been arely staircase Apr 2012 #78

Yes, it's strange really. I don't understand why anyone is giving any credit at all to the lie that sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #82

"Nobody assumes the syg law was applicable to Trayvon." drm604 Apr 2012 #88

ok then virtually nobody arely staircase Apr 2012 #89

The only person who had the right to stand his ground - was Trayvon. tabatha Apr 2012 #5

I think you mean if the prosecution does not make that clear.... magical thyme Apr 2012 #22

Yep, brain frt - meant prosecution. tabatha Apr 2012 #86

I think he'll do some time. Nye Bevan Apr 2012 #6

And the investigative officer nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #10

I can be the agressor, initiate contact, and wait for you to take a swing at me. Ikonoklast Apr 2012 #7

At the state level probably nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #8

Good point, FlawDuh will allow him to go but feds don't have a "Shoot Cause You sKeered" law uponit7771 Apr 2012 #16

And murder at the federal level nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #23

Murder is not generally a federal crime, HOWEVER I found this little gem while researching this: Nye Bevan Apr 2012 #29

Yeah, usually the Feds let the locals deal with murder nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #30

Actually no, the Feds don't "let" the states do anything tkmorris Apr 2012 #44

Generally, Murder is a state law jeff47 Apr 2012 #77

Exactly and number three nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #80

If George had NOT gone after Trayvon I would agree but since he did Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #9

The "writer of the law" was the NRA and ALEC Major Nikon Apr 2012 #58

There is still the civil rights possibility. nt BootinUp Apr 2012 #12

If FL's stand your ground law is like other state's laws... OneTenthofOnePercent Apr 2012 #20

In state court. There is no federal SYG law. jeff47 Apr 2012 #79

If the state can prove that Zimm did not have reasonable cause to fear for his life or OneTenthofOnePercent Apr 2012 #13

I would agree that its a toss-up Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #19

I would prefer a duty-to-retreat law Vattel Apr 2012 #21

What about having to retreat from ones home, if for instance Johnson20 Apr 2012 #66

Because of the SYG law, he had no duty to retreat. Life Long Dem Apr 2012 #31

JADP - There was no duty to retreat under Florida law even before the SYG law was passed slackmaster Apr 2012 #37

It was only in your home where you had no duty to retreat Life Long Dem Apr 2012 #38

No, there was never a DTR anywhere, any time in FL or most other states... slackmaster Apr 2012 #47

Your right. Life Long Dem Apr 2012 #48

under this law, provis99 Apr 2012 #34

"reasonable cause" is not the standard contained in the law. Major Nikon Apr 2012 #60

His life will still be ruined. mainer Apr 2012 #17

I predict a plethora of Johnson20 Apr 2012 #67

He'd better tattoo some eyes on the back of his head. alphafemale Apr 2012 #24

Yes. People can only take so much in-your-face injustice. CakeGrrl Apr 2012 #36

Was deadly force necessary to prevent the defendants imminent death? Life Long Dem Apr 2012 #25

stand your ground? maybe... madrchsod Apr 2012 #26

another clairvoyant thread.... spanone Apr 2012 #28

I'm not Ms Cleo but HipChick Apr 2012 #42

It's not a bad guess given the erosion of the rule of law EFerrari Apr 2012 #52

I think you are right, but... immoderate Apr 2012 #32

I agree 100%, and have posted the same on DU multiple times. Amerigo Vespucci Apr 2012 #33

That would protect him at the state level, but he can still get pinched on the federal level. backscatter712 Apr 2012 #39

The coverup has been exposed too much obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #40

I think you're right, but not due to a conspiracy kudzu22 Apr 2012 #41

If he does walk, man4allcats Apr 2012 #45

Zimmerman's reputation is tarnished though Justice4allofus Apr 2012 #46

This was his lottery Cosmocat Apr 2012 #70

I don't think he is a right wing hero Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #71

Could be Cosmocat Apr 2012 #84

Even if it gets that far, at least one of 12 jurors will use SYG, bigotry, love of guns, or whatever Hoyt Apr 2012 #49

I'm seriously worried a riot will break out if he does. Initech Apr 2012 #50

I think that's highly unlikely RZM Apr 2012 #51

They said the same thing about Rodney King. Initech Apr 2012 #54

I understand the line of thinking, but I guess I just don't see similar outcomes as very likely RZM Apr 2012 #59

Imho, we're nearing a tipping point EFerrari Apr 2012 #53

I am afraid you're right shimonitanegi Apr 2012 #56

Hey may walk WeekendWarrior Apr 2012 #64

He'll be arrested and tried, but found innocent n/t Pryderi Apr 2012 #81

Now that the FBI is involved I don't think you are correct. It goes Maraya1969 Apr 2012 #85

I think you are right... it's why the left needs to seriously step up fascisthunter Apr 2012 #87