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LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)

156. In addition to the meaning of the person who hears them, also...

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 09:20 AM

Apr 2012

"they have the meaning of the person who utters them..."

In addition to the meaning of the person who hears them, also-- which holds the precisely the same weight and validity. That is (according to Noam Chomsky in his book, Language and Mind) one of many reasons we maintain a much larger cupboard of words in our languages than we would otherwise need in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere-- to better realize our responsibility in allowing our words and meanings to intersect.

Additionally, I believe conflating the social bogey-man of authoritarianism with simple respect and tact is simply melodrama in place of rational discourse-- they are two wholly separate constructs, regardless of how we may try to rationalize otherwise... although I do realize how it better allows us to writhe on our self-constructed crosses.

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my friend said, "it is never, ever okay for white people to say (n-word)." [View all] nofurylike Apr 2012 OP

oh horseshit. words are just letters arranged in a certain order. Schema Thing Apr 2012 #1

Are you black, SCHEMA? Just curious based on your comment. Ecumenist Apr 2012 #3

I don't like anyone using that word. Some words need to die. That one needs to die. roguevalley Apr 2012 #29

No, but just like my Black friends I've been using words since I was a toddler. Schema Thing Apr 2012 #50

that's a cheeky thing to say to someone like me. I'm a BLACK WOMAN MARRIED to a SOUTHERN Ecumenist Apr 2012 #62

Where did you get this idea? Schema Thing Apr 2012 #75

Where did I get that idea? Are you serious? What about this: Ecumenist Apr 2012 #78

yeah, I still don't get where you took something I didn't say from something I did say. Schema Thing Apr 2012 #89

hoping for better from others is not "authoritarian." nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #92

Sorry Schema, but just because you feel entitled to use hate speech DOES NOT MAKE YOU BLACK or just Ecumenist Apr 2012 #94

Again, you are refusing to read or reply to my actual words. Schema Thing Apr 2012 #99

Lecturing people? I'm not the only one who are READING YOUR WORDS AND GETTING THE SAME Ecumenist Apr 2012 #125

Sorry, but no you don't tkmorris Apr 2012 #137

You got that right! Tell it like it is! goclark Apr 2012 #117

i inferred the same from "I've been using words since i was a toddler." since most have, nofurylike Apr 2012 #107

Thank you, Ecumenist. I too am a black woman married to a white man Number23 Apr 2012 #115

White here with a sister married to a black man. It bothers me also so you can imagine how it feels jwirr Apr 2012 #165

Some moron came up with the fundamentally flawed idea that using it everyday would reduce it's Ecumenist Apr 2012 #181

I agree. And it doesn't help my sister, her husband or their children. jwirr Apr 2012 #187

Geez Louise Number23 Apr 2012 #114

Why is that deserving of a face palm? EOTE Apr 2012 #162

So your significant other is okay with people calling her the n word? Number23 Apr 2012 #213

She uses it herself. EOTE Apr 2012 #218

I'm Not Black RobinA Apr 2012 #177

Well, the chance of becoming queen of anything other than a turnip or pumpkin festival Ecumenist Apr 2012 #183

Way To Miss the Point n/m RobinA Apr 2012 #208

Understood completely and realiser you're naive to think that you could become queen of anything Ecumenist Apr 2012 #209

gawd-damned straight! (edited) Cerridwen Apr 2012 #6

Well said, but I think you're misinformed about Godwin. EOTE Apr 2012 #163

I'm relieved to see another has the same interpretation. Cerridwen Apr 2012 #232

i see that to you they are. nofurylike Apr 2012 #24

It's not your fault that you're profoundly ignorant of the historical context this word came from, sudopod Apr 2012 #43

I'm every bit as aware as you are of the historical context of the word. Schema Thing Apr 2012 #52

That's nice in theory. sudopod Apr 2012 #54

whoa there Schema Thing Apr 2012 #63

Talking like a damn fool. sudopod Apr 2012 #67

Brilliant!! thank you for that, sudopod!! heartbreakingly spot on Truth. nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #90

;) sudopod Apr 2012 #113

thank you so very much, sudopod. nofurylike Apr 2012 #120

I used to completely agree with your claim, but I have learned words are ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #119

In addition to the meaning of the person who hears them, also... LanternWaste Apr 2012 #156

I just wanted to say "Thank You" for saying what I've been feeling for so long now. EnviroBat Apr 2012 #166

Amen, NoFuryLIke!.. Iam a black woman MARRIED to a white man and HE HAS NEVER USED THAT WORD Ecumenist Apr 2012 #2

thank you so very much, Ecumenist!! nofurylike Apr 2012 #7

I taught my kid the reason the word is wrong, beyond being crude and disrespectful, is that where freshwest Apr 2012 #28

Amen, FreshWest. It seems that the Trayvon Martin case is bringing out of the woodwork Ecumenist Apr 2012 #70

a crucially important aspect, "an 'action' word," thank you so much, freshwest!! and nofurylike Apr 2012 #97

I never used that word with my husband who was black man notadmblnd Apr 2012 #35

What about Eminem? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #4

i would say the same to him, though i doubt he'd listen any more nofurylike Apr 2012 #9

Actually Eminem never said the N-word in ANY of his songs. FarLeftFist Apr 2012 #15

thank you for correcting that, FarLeftFist. i apologize to Eminem for nofurylike Apr 2012 #22

You need to listen to his underground stuff. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #23

So if my daugher asks what the "n-word" is and why she should never say it, hughee99 Apr 2012 #5

i ask that other parents please reply to that. nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #8

I think, Hughee99, that you need to tell your sweet little girl what the word is, why she shouldn't Ecumenist Apr 2012 #13

very beautifully said. thank you so much for that, Ecumenist. nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #27

That approach worked well with my daughter. Mariana Apr 2012 #49

Adults don't like to admit to being retroactively wrong loyalsister Apr 2012 #88

that is insightful!!! yes! "being retroactively wrong ... they feel the need to defend"!! nofurylike Apr 2012 #98

awesome loyalsister Apr 2012 #104

thank you for bringing it to this thread, loyalsister. nofurylike Apr 2012 #121

Any and all, I guess loyalsister Apr 2012 #144

o my, that is an entire discussion, in itself! much to think about ! nofurylike Apr 2012 #193

As far as your original post... loyalsister Apr 2012 #196

great!! i reply tonight, but briefly: "when you say it quoting someone else ... " y'know? nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #198

That's kind of tricky loyalsister Apr 2012 #200

If she's old enough to ask and wonder dems_rightnow Apr 2012 #14

clarifying. thank you so much for replying to that, dems_rightnow. nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #31

Of course you should guitar man Apr 2012 #46

we have this thing called the first amendment quinnox Apr 2012 #10

You are free to say it Aerows Apr 2012 #12

correct, and that is why I agree quinnox Apr 2012 #17

maybe even the consequences of our own consciences. nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #38

How are you then free to say it? NutmegYankee Apr 2012 #145

having a *legal right* to say it is not a question raised by my post (though good question). nofurylike Apr 2012 #37

It's never okay for heterosexuals to Aerows Apr 2012 #11

i agree. thank you for adding that, Aerows. nofurylike Apr 2012 #40

I agree NFL. I get embarrassed when I hear OTHER people say it. It's 100% wrong. FarLeftFist Apr 2012 #16

thank you, again, more, FarLeftFist. i get embarrassed too!! 100%,YES! nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #41

When we were kids and would pile up on each other playing, we'd call it "n***** pile." Archae Apr 2012 #18

I had a friend that asked me what you call Brazil nuts Aerows Apr 2012 #19

We never used the racist term for them. Archae Apr 2012 #26

We played that game, but we called it Jam Pile. notadmblnd Apr 2012 #25

Nowadays kids call it "dog pile." Archae Apr 2012 #33

And we called it a pig pile. I never heard the n-word until we were much older. I saw the first jwirr Apr 2012 #167

It changed, for us, to "pig pile". uppityperson Apr 2012 #36

us too. one of the deepest, most intensely shame-filled lessons i ever learned was nofurylike Apr 2012 #103

This PC horseshit is getting old derby378 Apr 2012 #20

So, because we're democrats/progressives, we should just go around caling browns and blacks "n*****s Ecumenist Apr 2012 #45

I am a Polack, thank you very much derby378 Apr 2012 #48

HAHAHAHA sudopod Apr 2012 #55

Do YOU intend to use any of those words? derby378 Apr 2012 #58

For ANYONE to suggest that ANY group of people shouldn't say a word LaydeeBug Apr 2012 #71

oh lord sudopod Apr 2012 #83

Please LaydeeBug Apr 2012 #153

LaydeeBud, Frankly, I don't think that ANYONE should use this language because it's only Ecumenist Apr 2012 #127

That's Laydeebug, thankyouverymuch, and I agree with you, which is why that racist "friend" should LaydeeBug Apr 2012 #154

:clap: nofurylike Apr 2012 #123

Don't twist what I was saying because you know damn well what my point was. Your attempt Ecumenist Apr 2012 #66

I don't know where you're getting all these ideas from... derby378 Apr 2012 #72

I'm not saying that nobody use them but there is a history behind certain words that prevent them Ecumenist Apr 2012 #81

yes! "there is a history behind certain words that prevent them nofurylike Apr 2012 #126

There is a difference between making certain words part of a benign language... derby378 Apr 2012 #158

no, i didn't write out the c-word. nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #203

yes!! "they would have been (obsolete) at least one hundred years ago." nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #124

To me PC is a rw term - in our family we do not use derogatory words to describe other races jwirr Apr 2012 #170

very well said, thank you so very much, jwirr! nofurylike Apr 2012 #224

"the words that were designed to hurt and degrade" nofurylike Apr 2012 #122

Wow, you must be great fun at parties. nt sudopod Apr 2012 #47

sanitary? how about compassionate, at least? nofurylike Apr 2012 #109

If you don't want me to use the word, don't use it yourself derby378 Apr 2012 #159

i sit in awe at the challenge for people to actually not be purposely offensive to others. seabeyond Apr 2012 #21

yes!! that is really what the argument seems to come down to: nofurylike Apr 2012 #128

Do you really think that it is appropriate gvstn Apr 2012 #30

+100 derby378 Apr 2012 #44

i protested people's using swastikas in avatars here nofurylike Apr 2012 #131

My children were instructed from birth to NEVER use this word w8liftinglady Apr 2012 #32

i explained to my daughter never to use this word as well orleans Apr 2012 #108

beautifully said, orleans, thank you so very much!! nofurylike Apr 2012 #138

VERY well put, w8liftinglady!! "It is foul,obscene-because of its intent. nofurylike Apr 2012 #135

George Carlins and Richard Pryors take on it... -..__... Apr 2012 #34

... and I say - "it is never, ever okay for ME to say (n-word)". stlsaxman Apr 2012 #39

good points, stlsaxman! thank you! nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #225

great discussion, and thank you so for recs!! must run, back later to reply more nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #42

It's certainly never appropriate for people to call each other that word fujiyama Apr 2012 #51

Bingo! derby378 Apr 2012 #56

first, i am not advocating censorship. that should not be necessary with principled nofurylike Apr 2012 #204

I just view the use of dashes and other symbols as silly and pointless fujiyama Apr 2012 #216

Freedom of speech felix_numinous Apr 2012 #53

Tell your friend that it is no ok to refer to caucasian European Americans as "whire". vr94rx7 Apr 2012 #57

"Whire?" derby378 Apr 2012 #59

I hate to be called white so much i forgot how to spell it lol. vr94rx7 Apr 2012 #60

Except when reading Twain. alphafemale Apr 2012 #61

Stings is correct gvstn Apr 2012 #77

that's what an exacto knife is for Schema Thing Apr 2012 #79

I'm white. I would never use the N word. But I don't like the 'tude of your friend. Honeycombe8 Apr 2012 #64

"...at least according to a white's perspective." sudopod Apr 2012 #69

GOD BLESS YOU HONEYCOMB, I am kinda shocked no one called out the friend. LaydeeBug Apr 2012 #73

Well put. nt Union Scribe Apr 2012 #86

As a minority, I call BULLSHIT, and the fact that "your friend" says WHITE PEOPLE can't say it... LaydeeBug Apr 2012 #65

You know LayDeeBug, I have never understood people who claimed that blacks can't be racist. Ecumenist Apr 2012 #129

and it seems the OP's "friend" is an example of someone who wants to BE racist LaydeeBug Apr 2012 #146

Unless you're quoting a line from "Blazing Saddles" AnnieBW Apr 2012 #68

I think it's undeniable that that movie, using humor, helped people Schema Thing Apr 2012 #82

"the social prudishness that has crept into society" sudopod Apr 2012 #84

well, certainly the enlightened attitudes of the movie Blazing Saddles Schema Thing Apr 2012 #91

AW COME ON, IT'S A JOKE! sudopod Apr 2012 #95

somehow you still seem humorless Schema Thing Apr 2012 #100

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #102

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #105

You have the right to say whatever you want. sudopod Apr 2012 #106

but I don't have any "backwards-ass" opinions. Schema Thing Apr 2012 #110

Bullied? Do you even know what "authortarian" means? sudopod Apr 2012 #111

Amen, Sudopod! There are just some that cannot or WILL NOT understand... Ecumenist Apr 2012 #130

Mein kampfy chair Oilwellian Apr 2012 #199

Right. Archie Bunker was a racist, and they should have NEVER made that show. Romulox Apr 2012 #176

No it is not ok wendylaroux Apr 2012 #74

I so agree and to even use debasements arthritisR_US Apr 2012 #76

+1 freshwest Apr 2012 #80

+ 100 loyalsister Apr 2012 #96

Ain't it the truth! Just because SOME black folks use self-denigrating language DOES NOT Ecumenist Apr 2012 #133

All groups do it, it's just not something I arthritisR_US Apr 2012 #192

Thank you WendyLaRoux, for pointing out what SHOULD be obvious! Ecumenist Apr 2012 #132

Thanks! wendylaroux Apr 2012 #169

absolutely!! thank you very much wendylaroux! welcome! nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #205

Context is everything guitar man Apr 2012 #85

Neither of my 21 year olds pipoman Apr 2012 #87

what blacks are using it? I'VE NEVER HEARD ANYONE BLACK USE THAT WORD! Ecumenist Apr 2012 #134

I think you're doing it again tkmorris Apr 2012 #140

I had two other people read this post and they both started laughing and saying that Ecumenist Apr 2012 #142

Most people who read the post as a response to the OP pipoman Apr 2012 #148

Maybe the context of my post is lost if you don't first read the post pipoman Apr 2012 #147

Spam deleted by PassingFair (MIR Team) dont h8--appreciate Apr 2012 #207

are you a black person? hfojvt Apr 2012 #93

I repeat. Geez Louise... Number23 Apr 2012 #116

thank you, Number23. nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #223

A-Okay. yewberry Apr 2012 #101

In my opinion white people should never use that word to refer to black people. Vattel Apr 2012 #112

Yes, Vattel, EVERYTHING you said is completely correct. Ecumenist Apr 2012 #136

I have a question nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #118

NadinBrzezinski, I have no earthly idea why that student was offended by your research Ecumenist Apr 2012 #139

It made sense, if you think about it nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #178

thank you, all, for this oustanding discussion! much to reply to all! nofurylike Apr 2012 #141

A specific example for discussion (warning: the word is spelled out) Jim Lane Apr 2012 #143

My mother LOVES that word. YellowRubberDuckie Apr 2012 #149

growing up in segregated Texas in the 50s I never remember hearing my white parents say it. CTyankee Apr 2012 #150

'Plenty of racists don't say it but I'll bet they think it... ' bart95 Apr 2012 #161

aw, come on, you know what I mean. CTyankee Apr 2012 #168

i did stretch it a bit bart95 Apr 2012 #172

In many ways, I agree with you. I'm talking about people who are only mildly hiding CTyankee Apr 2012 #180

It was EASY to discern what you meant, CTYankee. Ecumenist Apr 2012 #188

Should Harper Lee have used asterisks in "To Kill a Mockingbird"? (nt) Nye Bevan Apr 2012 #151

No. She revealed, through dialog, what the problem was. Everybody reading her book knew CTyankee Apr 2012 #194

Can i still sing along to DJ Fletch in the car? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #152

It's a horrible word that I never, ever, ever use. HappyMe Apr 2012 #155

I agree 100% duhneece Apr 2012 #157

it's not ok for anyone to use it, if you really want it to go away bart95 Apr 2012 #160

I do hope that you and your friend would make allowances for artistic expression slackmaster Apr 2012 #164

Yep. Spike Lee is right. Taverner Apr 2012 #171

so he's advocating 'qualified equality' bart95 Apr 2012 #173

Belated +bazillion derby378 Apr 2012 #231

Spike Lee is a proven idiot. dont h8--appreciate Apr 2012 #206

Opinion noted, Mr 11 posts... Taverner Apr 2012 #210

I can call my brother a dumb bastard and get away with it. He's my brother. Ikonoklast Apr 2012 #174

but if you were to consistently and publicly call him that bart95 Apr 2012 #175

Nope. Doesn't work that way. You are not allowed to call him anything. Ikonoklast Apr 2012 #179

no, here's how it works bart95 Apr 2012 #182

You try it first. I'll watch. Ikonoklast Apr 2012 #185

no, i dont have a chip on my shoulder bart95 Apr 2012 #186

Used to spend a lot of time in courtrooms. Ikonoklast Apr 2012 #190

'I've been insulted by experts before.' bart95 Apr 2012 #195

Right....cause white people are the only ones who are verbally racist.... cbdo2007 Apr 2012 #184

And I say it's never okay for anyone to say it....black, white, or other. Iggo Apr 2012 #189

Oh yeah, I say n***** all the time. Quantess Apr 2012 #191

great comments! thank you!! i apologize i couldn't reply yesterday, or till tonight. nt nofurylike Apr 2012 #197

Nope. Fail. turn off your mind Apr 2012 #201

Your friend seems narrowminded and bigoted... MellowDem Apr 2012 #202

a-MEN. nt LaydeeBug Apr 2012 #217

Here's an interesting idea theaocp Apr 2012 #211

I'm a historian, and the word comes up in documents often... a la izquierda Apr 2012 #212

How am I to sing along with N.W.A. without it? MrSlayer Apr 2012 #214

this is about the responsibility of white people who want to be nofurylike Apr 2012 #215

There is only one situation when you can use the word "Nigger" grantcart Apr 2012 #219

see? exactly the point! said it with relish, didn't you? nofurylike Apr 2012 #220

i always talk about Dick Gregory with great relish. grantcart Apr 2012 #221

i can understand that, absolutely! and an evening with Dick Gregory?! i would too!! nofurylike Apr 2012 #222

I figured it would be provocative enough that it would attract some unsuspecting folks grantcart Apr 2012 #229

great thought, grantcart! i hope it will! nofurylike Apr 2012 #233

i'm sorry my thread has outgrown my dial-up. i can reply to one or two posts nofurylike Apr 2012 #226

I don't know about "never, ever". Imagine a situation when terrorists set up a powerful bomb Fool Count Apr 2012 #227

oh noes!1 my absolute claim is irrefutably rebutted!!1! nofurylike Apr 2012 #228

OK, I see you were not impressed with my counterexamples. Fool Count Apr 2012 #230

i was impressed! superb parody!! nofurylike Apr 2012 #234