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In reply to the discussion: The total area of solar panels it would take to power the world, Europe, and Germany [View all]bananas
(27,509 posts)169. "California could follow in 2017, New York and Arizona in 2018, and many other states soon after."
That's solar plus storage, solar itself is already competitive for peak-load in many areas.
If you really find net-metering "offensive and immoral" then you're extremely misinformed - it's not your fault, there's a lot of conservative right-wing misinformation out there.
Actually, your entire post is full of misinformation.
For example, you falsely claim:
Johnny solar owner gets to use those very same lines for FREE
But the scientifically verifiable reality is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering
A 2012 report on the cost of net metering in the State of California, commissioned by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC), ... found that solar customers do pay more on their power bills than what it costs the utility to serve them (Table 5, page 10: average 103% of their cost of service across the three major utilities in 2011).[14]
... an independent report conducted by the consulting firm Crossborder Energy found that the benefits of California's net metering program outweigh the costs to ratepayers. Those net benefits will amount to more than $92 million annually upon the completion of the current net metering program.[15]
A 2012 report on the cost of net metering in the State of California, commissioned by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC), ... found that solar customers do pay more on their power bills than what it costs the utility to serve them (Table 5, page 10: average 103% of their cost of service across the three major utilities in 2011).[14]
... an independent report conducted by the consulting firm Crossborder Energy found that the benefits of California's net metering program outweigh the costs to ratepayers. Those net benefits will amount to more than $92 million annually upon the completion of the current net metering program.[15]
So you have it exactly backwards - the reality is net-metering saves ratepayers money, and it is "offensive and immoral" for the utilities to prevent people from using the electric lines they are paying for, in fact paying over and above what it costs the utility to manage them.
You also mistakenly believe:
all because a solar company lobbied enough lawmakers in Hawaii to do such an immoral thing.
In reality, the history of net-metering in the US goes back to Jimmy Carter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed-in_tariff
History
United States
The first form of feed-in tariff (under another name) was implemented in the US in 1978 under President Jimmy Carter, who signed the National Energy Act (NEA). This law included five separate Acts, one of which was the Public Utility Regulatory Policies Act (PURPA). The purpose of the National Energy Act was to encourage energy conservation and develop new energy resources, including renewables such as wind, solar and geothermal power.[20][21]
Within PURPA was a provision that required utilities to purchase electricity generated from qualifying independent power producers at rates not to exceed their avoided cost.[21] Avoided costs were designed to reflect the cost that a utility would incur to provide that same electrical generation.
History
United States
The first form of feed-in tariff (under another name) was implemented in the US in 1978 under President Jimmy Carter, who signed the National Energy Act (NEA). This law included five separate Acts, one of which was the Public Utility Regulatory Policies Act (PURPA). The purpose of the National Energy Act was to encourage energy conservation and develop new energy resources, including renewables such as wind, solar and geothermal power.[20][21]
Within PURPA was a provision that required utilities to purchase electricity generated from qualifying independent power producers at rates not to exceed their avoided cost.[21] Avoided costs were designed to reflect the cost that a utility would incur to provide that same electrical generation.
I've never heard anyone call Jimmy Carter "immoral", even ultra-right-wing conservatives consider him "moral".
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The total area of solar panels it would take to power the world, Europe, and Germany [View all]
redqueen
Jun 2014
OP
It would be a huge army. I just don't understand some humans, not at all. One little spinning
RKP5637
Jun 2014
#89
LOL!! How did you get to "US invading for petroleum" or anything like that? WOW!!!
SkyDaddy7
Jun 2014
#193
I suspect the wires to run power around the world would be more expensive than
quakerboy
Jun 2014
#189
Yep, just a pipe dream with bribed politicians. And, there would be the solar wars. Humans don't
RKP5637
Jun 2014
#139
Pedantic: Probably need to quadruple the "world" box to cover transmission losses. (nt)
jeff47
Jun 2014
#4
Do you have something to back up that assertion? I would be interested in more info on this subject.
Tuesday Afternoon
Jun 2014
#22
so then, USA would be better off to locate their panels our SW deserts.
Tuesday Afternoon
Jun 2014
#43
Big plants could be put in the desert, but wide spread individual installatios are best
FrodosPet
Jun 2014
#67
well... now don't give me a hard time on this.. wouldn't have to store a ton of it, because
Voice for Peace
Jun 2014
#183
I wouldn't lose much in transmission if I put solar panels on my roof here in Southern
JDPriestly
Jun 2014
#33
A friend of mine lives in so cal and had solar installed for free basically
Rainforestgoddess
Jun 2014
#96
Probably more than that.. in fact its not really practical over a few thousand miles.
DCBob
Jun 2014
#37
That seems to be discussed in the third section of the thesis - pages 33 to 49 of the linked pdf...
xocet
Jun 2014
#41
I think this is a metaphorical placement. An illustration. The facilities would be placed closer to
newthinking
Jun 2014
#114
link to "Eco-balance of a Solar Electricity Transmission from North Africa to Europe"
sl8
Jun 2014
#19
They all sound so smart to be completely missing the point the way they are...
Squinch
Jun 2014
#113
Put collecting ponds under the panel arrays, collect the wastewater from them, filter it,
Zorra
Jun 2014
#24
And if history is an indicator, nobody has thought of how and where to store the waste yet. n/t
A Simple Game
Jun 2014
#26
See what I mean, even well intentioned people can't get it right every time! n/t
A Simple Game
Jun 2014
#32
Western or southwestern facing panels are often more financially attractive
kristopher
Jun 2014
#125
A bit misleading in that Im sure it does not take into account distribution losses.
DCBob
Jun 2014
#18
Yes, they would have to be located across the globe within a few thousand miles of consumption..
DCBob
Jun 2014
#42
Yes but those actions will only lead to a slightly more hospitable ecosystem
raouldukelives
Jun 2014
#20
Much more realistic. That results in an area about 4 times larger than the one at the top.
DCBob
Jun 2014
#53
"Its still quite remarkable though how relatively small a space it would require."
redqueen
Jun 2014
#54
RECOMMEND short interview with Stanford Professor Mark Jacobson in GASLAND 2 + following overview:
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2014
#60
I object to solar strongly when it is sited on fragile, previously undeveloped desert environments.
hunter
Jun 2014
#77
Where there is a will there is a way, and there is big lobby that doesn't want us to have solar.....
nolabels
Jun 2014
#115
I find that extremely hard to believe. Does this come from a creditable source? n/t
doc03
Jun 2014
#79
Snort. "And later on World News, 6 billion people trip on their way to the bathroom" n/t
jtuck004
Jun 2014
#119
There's this magical storage device called a battery. Ground breaking stuff.
Gravitycollapse
Jun 2014
#120
Even if they never generate energy, shouldn't the polar icecaps have solar panels?
SleeplessinSoCal
Jun 2014
#87
That's what I was thinking. Don't know how to keep them from blowing away though. n/t
SleeplessinSoCal
Jun 2014
#134
We are going to have to start somewhere (but really, it's already actually going on)
nolabels
Jun 2014
#135
I am not a fossil fuel fan but for the last 37 years fixing trucks all day long that burn the stuff
nolabels
Jun 2014
#168
Nobody here is ignoring cost - solar plus storage is already reaching grid parity
bananas
Jun 2014
#163
"California could follow in 2017, New York and Arizona in 2018, and many other states soon after."
bananas
Jun 2014
#169
Elon Musk: "This is why I think solar power will be the primary long term solution"
bananas
Jun 2014
#164
Looks like Algeria has the potential to be the number 1 new world power. (literally)
Kablooie
Jun 2014
#111
Your little link parade would make sense if posted in an anti-nuclear power thread.
redqueen
Jun 2014
#157
People, and their need for panacea-like solutions ... so predictable ... yet so sad ...
brett_jv
Jun 2014
#174