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newthinking

(3,982 posts)

12. This is really all about Kyiv, not Russia. Whether or not people accept the government

Wed Jun 18, 2014, 04:31 PM

Jun 2014

They are being backed into a corner and told to "take their medicine".

Amazingly, there was 0 tension between ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians (except in the very west) and they got along fine.
I have no doubt that they would have, and still likely do, prefer to keep the country intact. But the current administration is not only a thorn, but it is antagonistic toward half the country.

We and the EU have a huge influence and by "taking sides" we are actually keeping it from resolving. If instead we brokered in a neutral manner, new elections, potentially a federal system like what we have, this would all go away.

Unfortunately, the only thing that guarantees Trade and resource policies is keeping the minority junta in power and it seems that people's lives are less important than the money to be made off of their blood.

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Highlight:

The Russia as "Imperialist" Thesis Is Wrong and a Barrier to (Ukrainian) Solidarity [View all] newthinking Jun 2014 OP

Writer starts off wrong and never recovers. "Violent coming to power of a rightist regime..." stevenleser Jun 2014 #1

They are feverishly pushing the Russian line. It's like we have our very own rt.com n/t Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #3

Completely agree. LanternWaste Jun 2014 #4

This Bit Is Truly Priceless, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2014 #8

Agreed, such a false dichotomy is utterly absurd. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #9

You put it perfecetly. joshcryer Jun 2014 #41

I especially like the photo of the "Friendship Arch" erected in 1983 when Ukraine was a subjugated Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2014 #21

Pretty much. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #25

fully democratic one was elected............ dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #32

Parliament never dissolved after Yanukovych left. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #33

By what measure is the 2012 parliment illegitmate? joshcryer Jun 2014 #42

That was a question - not a statement. dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #62

Fair enough but the President called for new elections. joshcryer Jun 2014 #64

called for new elections...... dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #66

Yeah, the putin pushers really like to blanket that "rightest regime" propaganda everywhere they Cha Jun 2014 #36

You cannot say it is a "small segment" when Right Sector and Svoboda are in critical cabinet newthinking Jun 2014 #37

Yes I can because that is how representative Democracy works. It was a small segment. stevenleser Jun 2014 #67

3 out of 20 Cabinet seats are held by Svoboda. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #71

Wow, what a flaming load of monkey crap. Throd Jun 2014 #2

Apt description. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #6

Yup n/t sharp_stick Jun 2014 #7

+1 OKNancy Jun 2014 #31

Yup. joshcryer Jun 2014 #43

I believe it is all much worse than either side wants to admit. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #5

This is really all about Kyiv, not Russia. Whether or not people accept the government newthinking Jun 2014 #12

There was no tension between ethnic Russiasn and Ukrainians immediately following Maidan, either. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #15

Of course he did.. and so many bought it hook line and sinker.. or they know and don't Cha Jun 2014 #38

That is a fantasy newthinking Jun 2014 #51

Right Sector was a minor factor before, during and after Maidan. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #68

But you've got it exactly wrong. Power prospers through the explicit consent of the ruled. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #22

The parties in power were all minority parties. There is no way they would have come to newthinking Jun 2014 #60

Actions speak louder than words. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #69

Vladimir Putin to Dubya, 2008: Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #10

Historically there is truth in that. Ukraine has *never* historically had these borders newthinking Jun 2014 #14

Ukrainians as a people have long existed Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #18

I don't disagree in general newthinking Jun 2014 #44

Since Annis calls himself a socialist, he should check the inequality in Russia - worst in the world muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #11

As I have pointed out often, that is selective propaganda. *Both* Russia and Ukraine are pretty much newthinking Jun 2014 #16

Annis was trying to paint Russia as a state-controlled economy that workers should show muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #19

It is a long article and he made a few mistakes in descript. That was one (state controlled economy) newthinking Jun 2014 #46

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to admit that the USSR was a bastard of a country. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #13

Russia is not the USSR, and tell me, if you are going to qualify by history newthinking Jun 2014 #20

I brought up the USSR because your piece specifically advocates re-forming it. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #23

I don't agree with him on that newthinking Jun 2014 #58

Putin's Soviet nostalgia has nothing to do with communism. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #72

So basically the US of the same period, but with a cyrillic alphabet Scootaloo Jun 2014 #27

The US used Marxist economic theory as a populist guise? Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #28

Sort of. We used our supposed opposition to it as a guise to engage in our own imperial boondoggles Scootaloo Jun 2014 #29

No. joshcryer Jun 2014 #39

Because life is not black and white. I would imagine many Native Americans newthinking Jun 2014 #50

Life was likely happier in the Russia SSR, particularly west of the Urals. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #74

Steel rainbow? KamaAina Jun 2014 #17

An odd Soviet relic if there ever was one. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #24

How is it "odd"? We have lots of art very similar to it, lots even more unusual newthinking Jun 2014 #35

It's "odd" because it belies historical reality. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #73

Amusement... Scootaloo Jun 2014 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author newthinking Jun 2014 #34

Are you alleging that Ukraine should be split up? joshcryer Jun 2014 #40

if i were, I would have said so, don't you think? Scootaloo Jun 2014 #45

"howling over the necessity of preserving Ukrainian integrity" joshcryer Jun 2014 #47

If you paid a little attention you'd know what I was talking about Scootaloo Jun 2014 #48

It's idiotic. joshcryer Jun 2014 #49

Actually the british created the autonomous zone in Iraq Scootaloo Jun 2014 #52

Your views don't reflect reality. joshcryer Jun 2014 #53

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #75

The Ukrainian nation has been around for centuries. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #70

It's nuts isn't it? newthinking Jun 2014 #61

oops, post wasn't talking to me - delete :) newthinking Jun 2014 #54

You use the ":)" emoticon. joshcryer Jun 2014 #55

lighten up Josh. newthinking Jun 2014 #56

Post delete would've been the best. joshcryer Jun 2014 #57

huh... I have no idea what you are talking about newthinking Jun 2014 #59

"I am totally clueless" joshcryer Jun 2014 #63

Paranoid much? newthinking Jun 2014 #65

LOL, The truth will be revealed in 24 business hours tritsofme Jun 2014 #30