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In reply to the discussion: Bullied Teen Stabs and kills tormentor [View all]spin
(17,493 posts)62. Most modern handguns with a few exceptions are drop safe. ...
Accidental discharges where the trigger snags on something usually involve handguns that are not in properly designed holsters. In my opinion there is not real reason for an honest citizen to not use a quality holster that protects the trigger. Criminals usually avoid holsters as they often throw a gun away while chased and don't want the cops to catch them with an empty holster.
Accidental / Negligent discharges
by Frank Sharpe
Fortress Defense Consultants
Q: Frank, could you address the idea that guns just go off? On the news they say, the gun accidentally went off. I would love to post something from an expert debunking this scary thought!
***snip***
In answer to your question, the vast majority of handguns manufactured in the last 100-years are certified as drop safe. Meaning, they have, in a laboratory, been loaded with a primed case and test dropped onto concrete from varying angles to determine if they will fire. The Department of Justice Height Standard is 1-meter + 1cm; states such as MA and CA have their own standards (of course.) Some firearms, however, are not drop safe. The old single action Colt revolvers were used to seeing in all the Hollywood westerns are on that list. It was common practice in those days to carry an empty chamber under the hammer to prevent an accidental discharge of the pistol should it be dropped and fall directly on the hammer. Along with those, there are pistols like the 1903 Colt .32, and the first batch of Colt 1911 pistols up until 1930, and then again from the onset of WWII till the Series 80 1911′s went into production. The old-style 1911 pistols can have an inertia discharge, meaning you drop the gun and it hits the ground in just the right way that the weight of the firing pin overcomes the firing pin spring pressure and strikes the primer of the chambered round. This is a very rare occurrence on a 1911, and is usually kept at bay by replacement of the firing pin spring every 4000 rounds, or so.
***snip***
There are rare pistols such as the Japanese Nambu Type 94 pistol, which is a WWII era gun with an exposed sear. This usually resulted in the pistol discharging when being holstered, causing a large portion of the Japanese officers who carried it to have a bullet wound crease down the side of their leg. They are an absolute death trap and should anyone find themselves in the presence of one, DO NOT LOAD IT! Also, most common sporting shotguns like the Remington and Mossberg pump action shotguns are not drop safe. They have no internal firing pin block, but only a simple trigger block safety. This can result in an inertia discharge of the gun if dropped or struck directly on the buttstock with a large enough force. One of the most common hunting accidents is a shotgun being dropped butt first from a tree stand and discharging as it hits the ground, thus wounding the hunter above. Because of this, in our shotgun courses we carry our shotguns slung with an empty chamber, and only chamber a round when immediately deploying the gun towards a threat. With defensive long guns, one may have to struggle with an attacker to retain the weapon, or actually use it to strike, hence our empty chamber policy during shotgun carry
All that being said, the odds of ANY gun firing because it was dropped on the ground are very slim, and the vast majority of pistols we see hit the ground and discharge in movies are drop safe guns that would not do so in real life. And odds of a gun firing without being dropped are a statistical zero. Where all this fits with your question is this: When it is reported that a persons gun just went off, it didnt. All claims of Accidental Discharges (ADs) are investigated exactly as that. However, once investigated, 99.9999999999999% of them prove to be Negligent Discharges (NDs.) Idiot had his greasy finger wrapped around the trigger, pressed it, and the gun worked just as advertised. Once in a while a foreign object gets tangled in the trigger, but it all still comes down to human error and/or improper gun handling. Most of the time when there is an ND, the victim(s) will claim that they didnt do anything to cause it, and in their minds they are absolutely correct! Most people do not know or understand that they interacted with the gun to cause it to fire, and they will honestly believe that it just went off. But we know better, and once the facts are established it is proven as such.
Thats not to say there could not be a 1 in a billion chance of a mechanical malfunction of a gun, but its rare. Its not unheard of like a unicorn, but it is much rarer than a white rhino. The idea of a gun simply discharging as it sits on a table, or even in a persons hand, without the trigger being depressed, is a fallacy. It just doesnt happen.
http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=5573
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Bullying needs to be brought under control to help stop future tragedies like this. n/t
RKP5637
Jun 2014
#13
It is murder. It is also self defense. But I wouldn't classify it as legally justified self defense.
ieoeja
Jun 2014
#51
You left out any reference to his self-defense, which comes from the OP's article:
pacalo
Jun 2014
#101
Yeah, there seems to be disagreement about whether Crump was one of the bullies.
Vattel
Jun 2014
#99
So are you saying that my mother's use of a handgun to stop her rape or murder ...
spin
Jun 2014
#39
Since you are "not making any assesment about the good or evil of a firearm" then ...
spin
Jun 2014
#70
Major thread hijack! I am all for gun control, but this is not a gun control thread. nt
tblue37
Jun 2014
#140
You are not taking the interpretation of knife seriously enough. All one needs to do is carry
MillennialDem
Jun 2014
#19
Could you get in trouble for carrying a pair of scissors in public? Yes. Is it likely if you are in
MillennialDem
Jun 2014
#43
Not to mention guns could be enforceably banned but knives never can be. There are
MillennialDem
Jun 2014
#11
Nice try on your part to call an obvious negligent discharge an accidental discharge caused by ...
spin
Jun 2014
#84
A good number of those who own firearms and practice gun safety would agree with me ...
spin
Jun 2014
#108
I did acknowledge that if the shooter did not have the weapon the incident would have never ...
spin
Jun 2014
#110
If that is the truth, you are correct. Very sad he felt there was no other way out.
NCTraveler
Jun 2014
#54
We need to recognize that those who witness bullying and do nothing are part of the problem.
KittyWampus
Jun 2014
#105
I have wondered about this a lot and wrote an article about it a few years back...
stevenleser
Jun 2014
#96
I saw another article about this in NY today that said the kid that was killed was an angel
Renew Deal
Jun 2014
#72
Sounds more like manslaughter than murder, if the allegations against the victim are true. n/t
nomorenomore08
Jun 2014
#93
So the NEIGHBORS SAW AND KNEW? They knew the kid was being abused and did nothing?
KittyWampus
Jun 2014
#104
KamaAina, I like you -- but with a fourteen year old dead and another being tried as an
fishwax
Jun 2014
#134
Whoa! It is more complicated than it seems. The kid with the knife had been recently
tblue37
Jun 2014
#142