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De Leonist

(225 posts)
23. Considering Marx lived in poverty most of his adult life.....
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 09:10 AM
Jun 2014

I highly doubt that. Rather his writings were brought about by the extreme poverty that was a reality for the overwhelming majority of people in Europe in his day. In fact many writers, socialist, anarchist or otherwise were just as passionate about bringing attention to and ending the severe poverty that the working class in his time lived in. Now one of the reasons why Socialism never set down roots here like it did in Europe is that for a lengthy period of time the American Working Class had opportunities that the European equivalent did not. Now while that was true to some extent because of our bill of rights. It was mostly because there was land that they could settle which placed them further away from the East which was at the mercy of markets on a level the west didn't see until later in the 19th century.

Now was Marx an ass ? Well one could certainly make that argument. More one than historical person who was obsessed with political and economic injustice had qualities that we might describe as being ass-like. Well ass-like in the sense that they were very curt, direct, and had little tolerance for what they saw as bullshit.

Like others have stated he certainly wasn't and isn't infallible.

As to more equal than others.... I think you fail to see how much that outlook simply reflects the logic of the time in which you were born.

Even now people of this era assume that we will always have people who have far more power, deservedly or not, than others and there is nothing we can do about that. I suppose that is true in the short term.

But in the long term, however you may wish to define it, nothing is set in stone.

This is one of the biggest weaknesses in those think capitalism is the best we can do. I'm sure plenty of people thought in the stone age that flint, chert, or obsidian tipped and bladed hunting tools were the best we would ever develop. They were of course wrong.

Now some maybe right in that Socialism will never overtake Capitalism. After all it's not as if it' inevitable. In fact if history is anything to go by chances are that what will end up relegating capitalism to the dust bin of dead Economic Systems is a technological breakthrough so game changing that it will quite literally alter what our society, and the relationships that make up our society, is based on down it's very core.

Though I'm sure some certainly are of the opinion that it is this technological breakthrough that will bring on a Socialism. Again this could be true as well. While modern intellectuals and analysts might be able to predict the short term with some level of accuracy the fact is the future is at best a cloudy haze in the distance.

Now I should state that will only be the case if our society does not experience a collapse. Again it's not as if it's inevitable that we will progress beyond the current material conditions in which we find ourselves. More than once have what are comparatively technologically advanced and complex societies collapsed in on themselves. This happens often because of resource depletion, environment devastation, or simply invasion by a much larger and more war-like group.

But all of this aside your claim that " He lived in his own fairyland utopia, that in reality never would work." I think shows an ignorance of Socialist Economic Models as a whole. Marx actually didn't talk as much about Socialism/Communism as you might think. He spent far more of his writing career criticizing what was considered orthodox economic theory in his day. In fact if you want a good study on 19th century capitalist economics as it was seen in Europe than Das Kapital is a good read.

Since Marx a host of different authors and theorists have emerged out of the Marxist Philosophical Tradition and many have espoused varying economic theories and models. Read some of them and I think you might change your tune.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Perry Anderson malaise Jun 2014 #1
+1 xchrom Jun 2014 #2
Marx was an ass. Archae Jun 2014 #3
... TBF Jun 2014 #4
Most of the 20th Century called....... socialist_n_TN Jun 2014 #15
It's true some will always lovemydog Jun 2014 #16
Spot on. raouldukelives Jun 2014 #25
I do know, pure capitalism doesn't work either. Archae Jun 2014 #28
Our base desires are not written in stone Shankapotomus Jun 2014 #85
Considering Marx lived in poverty most of his adult life..... De Leonist Jun 2014 #23
Bingo laundry_queen Jun 2014 #30
Whatever poverty Marx lived in it was his choice. former9thward Jun 2014 #45
Really ? De Leonist Jun 2014 #46
I don't think Marx looked at money and finances the way most of us do. former9thward Jun 2014 #49
Have you ever managed to kick and claw your way through Kapital? Warpy Jun 2014 #53
Kind of like the kind of capitalism we're headed back to..... socialist_n_TN Jun 2014 #60
Have you actually read anything written by Marx? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #63
Tried to. Archae Jun 2014 #65
How exactly can you dismiss someone like Marx without reading his work? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #66
I dont need to read "The Turner Diaries" to know it's bullshit. Archae Jun 2014 #68
How can you know what is actually contained within a text without reading it? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #71
It is interesting that this is hitting the mainstream - TBF Jun 2014 #5
Yep. That is EXACTLY what it is.......... socialist_n_TN Jun 2014 #13
Great points socialist_n_TN lovemydog Jun 2014 #18
Spot on, Joe Shlabotnik Jun 2014 #86
Don't forget that those of us over 40 saw what the perversion of Marxixm Warpy Jun 2014 #51
I am over 40 and not confused about what Marxism actually is - TBF Jun 2014 #52
"Dictatorship of the proletariat." Warpy Jun 2014 #55
I have. He was counterposing that to the current....... socialist_n_TN Jun 2014 #61
Revolutionary Catalonia is a better example. joshcryer Jun 2014 #89
Marxist-Leninism is the only thing tried. joshcryer Jun 2014 #88
That's rather my position, also Warpy Jun 2014 #90
I think there are better authors who preceded him. joshcryer Jun 2014 #91
Well enjoy that hangman's noose when the capitalists counterattack........ socialist_n_TN Jun 2014 #97
I agree with Marxian economist Richard Wolff: deutsey Jun 2014 #6
If the people in charge gave a care about the 99% Demeter Jun 2014 #7
+1 lovemydog Jun 2014 #10
K/R marmar Jun 2014 #8
K&R blackspade Jun 2014 #9
The sad thing is most people don't even know what Marxism/Communism was. A guy on youtube asked MillennialDem Jun 2014 #11
i've been surprised by people i thought were politically well read, nashville_brook Jun 2014 #24
Even though Stalin was a monster and totalitarian, many falsehoods which make him out even MillennialDem Jun 2014 #27
Cold War artifacts no doubt -- i'm sure this was taught in school nashville_brook Jun 2014 #50
That is a very good point and worth stating - TBF Jun 2014 #35
Honestly I'd say the older people are more anti socialist because of the Cold War. MillennialDem Jun 2014 #42
That's really good to hear - TBF Jun 2014 #47
I studied the philosophy of Marxism lovemydog Jun 2014 #12
People keep forgetting that in the 19th century, opium was a GOOD thing-- eridani Jun 2014 #96
Marx called capitalism a vampire. K&R for truth. McCamy Taylor Jun 2014 #14
I never hated Marx. ananda Jun 2014 #17
I'd encourage everyone here to read Marx for Beginners lovemydog Jun 2014 #19
Marxists even disagree on how much TBF Jun 2014 #36
K&R ReRe Jun 2014 #20
Really? On DU, the first line of defense against traditional Democrats seems to merrily Jun 2014 #21
i have no idea what you're talking about. nt xchrom Jun 2014 #22
That makes 3 of us. H2O Man Jun 2014 #26
4. nt laundry_queen Jun 2014 #31
That's because what they said makes no sense. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #73
Marx is great for identifying the problems in society. Top notch, actually. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #29
That's what I always thought. Brigid Jun 2014 #32
Well for starters the prescription was never really tried nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #67
the worker will rise up lovuian Jun 2014 #33
I wish he could come back and write a treatise on information KamaAina Jun 2014 #34
Das Internets lovemydog Jun 2014 #37
Have you heard of the grundrisse? DireStrike Jun 2014 #44
BS.nt clarice Jun 2014 #38
such wit! xchrom Jun 2014 #39
How did you get my picture ???!!! nt clarice Jun 2014 #40
a lot of people have your number RainDog Jun 2014 #54
KnR ECHOFIELDS Jun 2014 #41
He never went anywhere. joshcryer Jun 2014 #43
Thank you. nt clarice Jun 2014 #56
If you studied Classical Political Economy Jeneral2885 Jun 2014 #48
Then what is it that we live under? nt clarice Jun 2014 #58
Arguably, a proto-fascist state. Certainly an economic oligarchy. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #64
No, I mean in the REAL world... clarice Jun 2014 #69
Are you reading what I write? In the real world, the conception of the free-market doesn't exist. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #70
With all due respect, Those exact thoughts.... clarice Jun 2014 #72
What exactly has led to the "inhalation of millions of people?" Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #74
LOL....Should have used spell check. nt clarice Jun 2014 #75
Glossing over the spelling error, what has led to the annihilation of millions of people? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #76
By all accepted statistics ...... 40,000,000 people were starved to death by Stalin's regime alone. clarice Jun 2014 #77
Again, what specific idea from my post lead to the death of millions of people? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #78
Again with all due respect,,,,, clarice Jun 2014 #79
You haven't answered my question. What idea of mine is responsible for millions dead? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #80
Certainly I did....I pasted your exact comments in my previous post. clarice Jun 2014 #81
Okay, so let's have a one on one about basic argumentation skills... Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #83
Sorry, you lost me after Okay.....nt clarice Jun 2014 #98
You lost yourself. My statements are concise. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #99
Read The Wealth of Nations, Das Kapital Jeneral2885 Jun 2014 #95
I expect they're confusing him with xfundy Jun 2014 #57
I don't know how relevant Marx himself is nowadays, but if one can avoid struggle4progress Jun 2014 #59
PM kick!! Thanks for this nt riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #62
Jobs are becoming obsolete. Hosnon Jun 2014 #82
"Slightly to the Left of Hillary Clinton"??? Hell, Stargleamer Jun 2014 #84
I love these threads where the People Who Are Always Wrong get ticked in unison. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #87
Dadburn it, you made me look! Warpy Jun 2014 #93
+1 xchrom Jun 2014 #94
I believe it - truth will out. n/t PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #92
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