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gulliver

(13,986 posts)

64. Would you bet their lives that getting Medicare for All was possible?

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 08:52 PM

Jun 2014

Just how sure are you that Obama and the Dems traded away single-payer, universal coverage when it was achievable? And don't tell me; tell the people who would have lost their lives if you are wrong. Tell the parents who have one more kid now than they would have had.

I remember health care being completely dead. Obama pulled it out of the fire by knocking the Republicans' blocks off at their retreat. Even with that, it took a truly heroic effort by Nancy Pelosi (who sacrificed her Speakership) and the Blue Dogs (many of whom lost their seats) to get the ACA we have now.

But your bet and the OP's—with the stakes being someones' kids lives—is that somehow "Medicare for All" could have been achieved. And if you think that would have been a good bet, I think you shouldn't be in the gambling advice business.

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Two Words explain why the ACA is fatally flawed. Hobby Lobby. [View all] Armstead Jun 2014 OP

I think we know what the responses to this will be.... vi5 Jun 2014 #1

I know and my answer would be... Armstead Jun 2014 #2

Was just telling my wife this. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #7

It was frustrating something this straightforward wasn't done Armstead Jun 2014 #9

There was a reason Obama was hving secret back room meetings with the insurance companies cui bono Jun 2014 #23

The problem is not with the ACA. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #43

I don't disagree with you other than the only reason the ACA passed is because it is a boon for cui bono Jun 2014 #44

Agreed. But this problem with reproductive rights would still be pressing. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #60

Brilliant! Let's see there morals in action and make them pay to the balls!-nt Anansi1171 Jun 2014 #78

So its better to just give up on single payer then? IronLionZion Jun 2014 #25

Medicaid could have been expanded in all states without conditions Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #28

So why hasn't it been expanded in all states without conditions? IronLionZion Jun 2014 #41

We did not need the ACA to expand medicaid and increase funding to the states Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #106

Go for it! Whip the votes in congress and send the bill to the president IronLionZion Jul 2014 #109

And your handy magic wand would have magically gotten that passed in Congress. KittyWampus Jun 2014 #12

Not a magic wand. Armstead Jun 2014 #15

When winning is all that matters anymore the ACA is what you get. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #30

When people are dying BootinUp Jun 2014 #31

Is it healthcare? Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #32

It's health insurance. n/t Gore1FL Jun 2014 #35

And how much of a tax increase would be necessary geek tragedy Jun 2014 #48

Who says a ta increase wuld be necessary? Armstead Jun 2014 #71

how is a mandated payment to the government not a tax? geek tragedy Jun 2014 #75

Personally I dont think mandates should be implemented anytime soon.... Armstead Jul 2014 #82

So you are against "government run healthcare" too. Doctor_J Jul 2014 #94

More greedy than stupid, I think. BuelahWitch Jul 2014 #118

It's so discouraging that the PTB have convinced people that corporations are our friends Doctor_J Jul 2014 #121

I'd settle for... vi5 Jun 2014 #21

Already proposed. Already rejected by Lieberman. jeff47 Jun 2014 #19

Good, so you have heard the facts and the political reality. If only your magic wand KittyWampus Jun 2014 #11

Did the GOP use their "magic wand" to make Obama have secret back room deals cui bono Jun 2014 #26

So which people in the Senate would have gone for universal coverage? Liberman? Bayh? Nelson(Neb) lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #104

In a perverse way Turbineguy Jun 2014 #3

The benefit is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the profiteers Armstead Jun 2014 #6

I wish you would start an OP with your post. And your last question is a valuable philosophical KittyWampus Jun 2014 #13

Not a chance in hell Doctor_J Jun 2014 #46

SCOTUS is an enemy of the state and war s/b declared on them. nt valerief Jun 2014 #4

You mean the Health Insurance Industry bailout? Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #5

I wonder what jobs pay at Hobby Lobby? CountAllVotes Jun 2014 #8

If you live in a Red State your options for Planned Parenthood are greatly limited... Javaman Jun 2014 #39

As for the rest of it, it will be lobbied away over the years. Except for the mandate. Fact is, grahamhgreen Jun 2014 #10

Some of it already is Doctor_J Jun 2014 #52

Retiring Boomers is what scared them into compliance SoCalDem Jun 2014 #57

Buy an individual plan IronLionZion Jun 2014 #14

Criticizing is not whining. Armstead Jun 2014 #17

Sounds good IronLionZion Jun 2014 #18

If only I could have... Armstead Jun 2014 #20

we did our best - voted for the president who said he would INSIST on a public option Doctor_J Jun 2014 #56

At least a generation is an awfully long time to not have SP or a PO enacted. Louisiana1976 Jun 2014 #65

Because the mighty insurance lobby is now part of the system by law Doctor_J Jun 2014 #66

Quit your job IronLionZion Jun 2014 #80

omfg... your solution is to quit your job??? cui bono Jul 2014 #101

Boycott for-profit insurance IronLionZion Jul 2014 #103

Bingo Armstead Jun 2014 #73

It is when other perspectives and alternatives are purposefully left out in order to light hairs on uponit7771 Jun 2014 #38

With what money? jeff47 Jun 2014 #22

Unfortunately in Massacusetts it's still convoluted mess with no relief in sight Armstead Jun 2014 #24

Your point is absurd Doctor_J Jun 2014 #50

You've fallen in hate, my friend. IronLionZion Jun 2014 #54

Employer coverage is an EARNED benefit. alarimer Jun 2014 #58

Yeah! The company should have no say in your pay either IronLionZion Jun 2014 #59

You can't be serious. You are defending the Hobby Lobby decision??? cui bono Jun 2014 #62

I also steal candy from babies because I'm such a bad guy like that IronLionZion Jun 2014 #74

We could all just move to another country too but that doesn't addresss the issue. cui bono Jul 2014 #95

How's your approach working out for you? IronLionZion Jul 2014 #98

Working a lot better than telling women to just get another job or buy their own insurance. cui bono Jul 2014 #100

DURec leftstreet Jun 2014 #16

Hobby Lobby can still be an issue with single payer IronLionZion Jun 2014 #27

The ACA is a bad dream. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #29

...who can't afford it Armstead Jun 2014 #33

Agree with every word you wrote. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #36

I don't moderate my thoughts on it (I probably should sometimes) Armstead Jun 2014 #37

I work for the Commonwealth of Kentucky Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #108

Hell to the K and fucking R !!!!! Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #34

Medicare for all. The Kennedy plan. tclambert Jun 2014 #40

No. What is flawed is the perverse attitude toward sexx held by the Catholic Five on JDPriestly Jun 2014 #42

Yep. the now mandatory for-profit insurers and your employers have even more control Doctor_J Jun 2014 #45

the ACA is not 'fatally flawed' geek tragedy Jun 2014 #47

It's already been defined and implemented Doctor_J Jun 2014 #49

Perhaps as flawed as we could get. Our global grades aren't going to rocket up the charts. TheKentuckian Jun 2014 #68

A great deal of fixing would come just from states like Texas expanding Medicaid. geek tragedy Jun 2014 #76

Well - said... kentuck Jun 2014 #51

Perhaps, but there's no use crying over spilled milk. Laelth Jun 2014 #53

You need to tell the folks saved by the ACA why they should have died. gulliver Jun 2014 #55

those people wouldn't have died if we had Medicare For All Doctor_J Jun 2014 #61

Would you bet their lives that getting Medicare for All was possible? gulliver Jun 2014 #64

Here you go Doctor_J Jun 2014 #67

That's an inappropriate citation. gulliver Jun 2014 #72

How much is one life worth? IronLionZion Jun 2014 #77

right after you notice that your argument is based on refusal to admit the DC Dems screwed this up, Doctor_J Jul 2014 #85

You didn't address anything I asked you at all. IronLionZion Jul 2014 #89

Except that I quoted your lie and refuted it quite simply Doctor_J Jul 2014 #91

What exactly do you expect to accomplish with this attitude? IronLionZion Jul 2014 #92

You know what? cui bono Jul 2014 #96

OK, I give up IronLionZion Jul 2014 #97

You go ahead and keep saying there's nothing wrong with forcing religious beliefs on women cui bono Jul 2014 #99

That's horse manure -- A public option would not have "made someone die" Armstead Jun 2014 #70

During ACA debate, I was saying pursue Medicare for All. muntrv Jun 2014 #63

I agree that universal is what we should be moving toward davidpdx Jun 2014 #69

"We should have. . . " "Should have" and "would have" are limited by "could have." pnwmom Jun 2014 #79

Gee, I thought it was the Supreme Court that was fucked up, not ACA. nt MADem Jul 2014 #81

Them too...,But the flaws of employer mandated insurance gave them.... Armstead Jul 2014 #83

We weren't gonna GET single payer. We barely got ACA. MADem Jul 2014 #84

"You can't just take a shitload of insurance companies and drive them into the sea" nationalize the fed Jul 2014 #87

So it was better the way it was?... lame54 Jul 2014 #88

It's the "too big to fail" fallacy, the go-to argument for corporatists Doctor_J Jul 2014 #90

There is no nice way to say this. MADem Jul 2014 #93

It is, the people talking about the ACA are wrong. Rex Jul 2014 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author Rex Jul 2014 #112

I think those so-called "Roman Catholics" aren't living a life in imitation of the MADem Jul 2014 #115

Yeah I dunno,worst court in history? Rex Jul 2014 #116

I think you're right on that--worst court in history, thanks to five assholes. MADem Jul 2014 #117

We can only hope some of them have to retire during our next Dem POTUSes two terms. Rex Jul 2014 #119

"Healthcare should not be tied to jobs" <<<< THIS!!! Roland99 Jul 2014 #86

No... CherokeeDem Jul 2014 #102

BINGO! Rex Jul 2014 #114

Actually you are not correct. An accommodation was already made for groups who oppose this on lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #105

Opposite diretion from socialized medicine.. Armstead Jul 2014 #110

I am not saying the ACA is socialized medicine, of course it isn't. What I am saying is with things lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #120

Unfortunatley, to some Democrats, it is not flawed at all. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #107

posters like vr are not on our side. They are on the president's side Doctor_J Jul 2014 #122

Actually this is the direct result of some SCOTUS members putting their religious Rex Jul 2014 #113

The design of employer based healthcare left the door open for the SC to do that Armstead Jul 2014 #124

SO why not get rid of your employer based healthcare, for Obamacare? Rex Jul 2014 #125

another impediment between you and your doctor Doctor_J Jul 2014 #123