His observations are a mix of sophistry, lies, and presumption. (Reply #83)

In the discussion thread: So Greenwald weighs in...telling us to read Kennedy's concurrence, noting that Ginsburg is incorrect [View all]

Response to Jim Lane (Reply #75)

Tue Jul 1, 2014, 12:30 AM

OilemFirchen (6,506 posts)

83. His observations are a mix of sophistry, lies, and presumption.

Do the liberal justices "agree" that corporations have constitutional rights? Of course they do:

The courts have long treated corporations as persons in limited ways for some legal purposes. They may own property and have limited rights to free speech. They can sue and be sued. They have the right to enter into contracts and advertise their products. But corporations cannot and should not be allowed to vote, run for office or bear arms.

Do Kagan and Breyer "accept corporate personhood"? Of course they don't:

In an exchange this month with Chief Justice Roberts, the solicitor general, Elena Kagan, argued against expanding that narrowly defined personhood. “Few of us are only our economic interests,” she said. “We have beliefs. We have convictions.” Corporations, “engage the political process in an entirely different way, and this is what makes them so much more damaging,” she said.

(Both quotes from The Rights of Corporations)

Breyer, to the best of my knowledge, has avoided opining on this court's twisted concept of corporate "personhood". Nonetheless, his dissenting opinions on all Roberts' Court cases relative to the subject would strongly suggest that he disagrees with the notion. It would be incumbent on Greenwald to cite statements or opinions to the contrary. Has he?

As to Kagan and Breyer's "refusal" to join Ginsburg's strident proclamation about the RFRA vis a vis for-profit corporations, joshcryer's response above eloquently explains its irrelevance.

Ever wonder why Greenwald's legal resume' is so thin?

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197 replies	Author	Time	Post
So Greenwald weighs in...telling us to read Kennedy's concurrence, noting that Ginsburg is incorrect [View all]	msanthrope	Jun 2014	OP
He's always been an ah*.	CherokeeDem	Jun 2014	#1
The thing is....I agree the NSA should be exposed, but as Cryptome has pointed out, GG's	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#2
I know.....	CherokeeDem	Jun 2014	#10
You can read GG's book for free on the Cryptome site...it's pretty apparent	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#11
His appearance on Bill Maher's show....	CherokeeDem	Jun 2014	#13
Ask yourself why it doesn't. Personally, I think we are watching internecine	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#14
That could be true...	CherokeeDem	Jun 2014	#20
Yep.	joshcryer	Jun 2014	#51
Well said. I have thought that myself and agree with you.	Justice	Jun 2014	#22
He's using it to sell books and shit too	uponit7771	Jun 2014	#36
that's what all of this is mostly for him	JI7	Jun 2014	#61
We are not surprised.	frazzled	Jun 2014	#3
That sweet, sweet Omidayar money, coupled with being of the 'owner' class, undoubtedly	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#6
This ought to be good.	MohRokTah	Jun 2014	#4
I expect to be accused of smearing GG by quoting GG. nt	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#7
The BEST way to smear GG is t let GG speak.	MohRokTah	Jun 2014	#8
"Let an asshole be an asshole." nt	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#9
See post #143.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#170
I adore him, but don't agree with him on this issue.	Fawke Em	Jul 2014	#132
Good. any day is a good day for a FUCK GREENWALD thread.	BootinUp	Jun 2014	#5
Well - we could have just ignored his statements - would that have been preferable? nt	el_bryanto	Jun 2014	#17
No, not any day.	pnwmom	Jul 2014	#173
He probably jizzed himself just like his worship for the Citizens United decision. Fuck him. n/t	Tarheel_Dem	Jun 2014	#12
Glenn Greenwald has offered nothing of value to this world.	Dawson Leery	Jun 2014	#15
He's a weasel.....a Libertarian one. nt	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#16
This^^^	Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin	Jul 2014	#195
the visceral hatred on this thread is shameful...	grasswire	Jun 2014	#18
Yeah...I fucking hate overprivileged white Libertarians who could give two	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#19
Incredibly fucking paternalistic-thank you!	bettyellen	Jun 2014	#23
Yeah...if you read the white male opinion on your reproductive rights, bettyellen, you'll	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#25
Damn.....what she said.	Bobbie Jo	Jun 2014	#63
You seem to judge a lot of people by their gender, race and religion.	hugo_from_TN	Jun 2014	#78
Ya know what's even less "productive"? GG.	Tarheel_Dem	Jul 2014	#84
I'm no Greenwald fan	hugo_from_TN	Jul 2014	#87
this has a lot to do with gender, race and religion	JI7	Jul 2014	#90
Well, between the liberal woman who sued the military, and the Libertarian who defended a Nazi,	msanthrope	Jul 2014	#97
Right on! Well said!	MADem	Jul 2014	#131
+1000.	pnwmom	Jul 2014	#194
What's shameful is GGs overt hackery and the reflexive support for it	uponit7771	Jun 2014	#37
It's no more important than...	Wait Wut	Jun 2014	#46
I haven't seen anyone discuss Palin's, Limbaugh's or..	grasswire	Jul 2014	#96
He's Not A Likable Guy	otohara	Jun 2014	#64
so GG is just a comedian now...	VanillaRhapsody	Jul 2014	#104
Isn't that the excuse the ditto heads use everytime Limbaugh jumps the shark?	Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin	Jul 2014	#196
+10000 Typical propaganda tactic. Deliberately trying to incite visceral emotion to override logic.	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#146
Why? It's the same outrage that is being directed at everyone who supports this	pnwmom	Jul 2014	#172
Exactly	Andy823	Jul 2014	#193
In fairness he only is discussing whether corporations have religous rights	dsc	Jun 2014	#21
No...in fairness, he's pushing the idea that the religious rights of the owner class allow them to	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#24
I notice you didn't answer my examples	dsc	Jun 2014	#41
I didn't answer your examples because I didn't want to be rude and point out to you that	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#54
Any ruling or law that further transfers "human" rights to corporations is wrong.	bluesbassman	Jun 2014	#39
so the Congress could pass a law banning corporate owned newspapers from	dsc	Jun 2014	#40
Much as your "kosher" analogy is false these are too.	bluesbassman	Jun 2014	#42
If a jurisidiction passed a law banning kosher slaughtering	dsc	Jun 2014	#43
again your analogies are assuming the laws were passed to restrict religious freedom.	bluesbassman	Jun 2014	#45
there would be no court hearing under your theory that is my point	dsc	Jun 2014	#47
Of course there would be court hearings.	bluesbassman	Jun 2014	#58
I really don't know what else to say to you	dsc	Jun 2014	#59
You know, it's sad when a debater resorts to insults.	bluesbassman	Jun 2014	#60
Someone injecting imaginary facts into a debate about reality is where i try to jump off also.	nolabels	Jul 2014	#126
HHS already exempted non profits.	joshcryer	Jun 2014	#48
and how you never learned to read, I don't know	dsc	Jun 2014	#49
This isn't about the corporation, it's about the employees.	joshcryer	Jun 2014	#50
can you think of a single hypothetical case that would actually make it to court?	bettyellen	Jun 2014	#72
I'll help!	OilemFirchen	Jul 2014	#86
Paul Reikoff destroyed him on Maher's show the other day! Totally destroyed him!	Liberal_Stalwart71	Jun 2014	#26
Greenwald loses one on one arguments all the time.	BootinUp	Jun 2014	#28
That's probably because he does not represent the "Liberal PoV." eom.	1StrongBlackMan	Jun 2014	#29
Yes, there is that.	BootinUp	Jun 2014	#30
Absolutely...	CherokeeDem	Jun 2014	#31
Nothing against Reikoff (he has done excellent work for veterans)	Dawson Leery	Jul 2014	#111
Assholes can still do a lot of good.	NCTraveler	Jun 2014	#27
Grayson is an abrasive liberal, Greenwald is a libertarian	geek tragedy	Jun 2014	#32
What is a "borderline white nationalist xenophobe"	NCTraveler	Jun 2014	#33
He used the same tropes about how illegal immigration	geek tragedy	Jun 2014	#34
No no no... that was "before I had a major blog" ... so ... that GG racism doesn't count /sarcsm	uponit7771	Jun 2014	#38
It must be a Libertarian thing.	Chan790	Jul 2014	#80
BUT WAAAAAAAAAAAIT... he and Snowden repeated what Obama said just louder and with stolen docs	uponit7771	Jun 2014	#35
All hail corporations!	joshcryer	Jun 2014	#44
but he is attending a socialist event and took a pic with a member of the socialist party	JI7	Jun 2014	#52
Greenwald is a right winger	Cali_Democrat	Jun 2014	#53
And there are those who insist otherwise. If Citizens United weren't enough, they defend even this.	Tarheel_Dem	Jun 2014	#57
Snowden, though!!!1! NSA!!11! LOOK AT ME I'M SUCH A LIBERAL LOOK AT ME LOOK!!!1!	LadyHawkAZ	Jun 2014	#55
Such a liberal, except when it comes to women and minorities. nt	msanthrope	Jun 2014	#56
just another self loathing Republican.....	VanillaRhapsody	Jul 2014	#106
OMG, you got me ROFLMAO here! You crack me up.	freshwest	Jul 2014	#91
Thank you, msanthrope.	Cha	Jun 2014	#62
The mere mention of Greenwald turns some here into adolescent idiots	TriplD	Jun 2014	#65
Agreed! nt	elias49	Jun 2014	#70
It's Greenwald who acts like an "adolescent idiot". He's such a "petulant hater".	Cha	Jul 2014	#79
DU would be better again...	Chan790	Jul 2014	#82
It's all very serious business, the smear.	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#144
+1, they're embarrassing, I agree.	Marr	Jul 2014	#150
I'm sure everyone who	leftynyc	Jul 2014	#184
What a giant turd he is	alcibiades_mystery	Jun 2014	#66
Fuck the smear machine. Seriously.	woo me with science	Jun 2014	#67
Also, notice how they're conspicuously absent from Octafish's TISA thread?	Electric Monk	Jun 2014	#69
+100000 Isn't that remarkable?	woo me with science	Jun 2014	#71
I wish you could take the science part out of your handle LOL	snooper2	Jun 2014	#73
Could probably take out the bit about "wooing" too...	Number23	Jun 2014	#74
This. nt	Bobbie Jo	Jul 2014	#105
USA NSA USA NSA USA NSA n/t	bobduca	Jul 2014	#138
now on the other hand, your sig line you sport is perfect	snooper2	Jul 2014	#139
yup just like your username	bobduca	Jul 2014	#140
Says I got paid $11.23 this last quarter to denounce your posts	snooper2	Jul 2014	#148
Nah we both know i'm referring to your day job, not your hobby	bobduca	Jul 2014	#153
day job has been boring lately, just working on some PCI compliance issues	snooper2	Jul 2014	#154
SOX compliance eh?	bobduca	Jul 2014	#155
We use a trusted third party and only get relatively small x number of warrants a year	snooper2	Jul 2014	#156
You and me, we're network plumbers	DisgustipatedinCA	Jul 2014	#157
I think the NSA spends 90% of their time mining the public intertubes from all the slides-	snooper2	Jul 2014	#158
They're not going to like this: the NSA review team says the NSA is doing a good job.	randome	Jul 2014	#160
Ah Mr Roffle Waffles, the mark of quality for any pro-nsa post!	bobduca	Jul 2014	#168
The OP is ardently against the spying machine.	joshcryer	Jun 2014	#76
War is Peace!	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#99
Lies are Truth!	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#121
I think you are correct, the OP seems rather shameless in the link you provided	nolabels	Jul 2014	#127
+1	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#141
What's shameless about their comments there?	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#178
The exent of the post was to the OP's veracity	nolabels	Jul 2014	#182
Are we back to using "Stasi?" I've missed that! Again....I'm still waiting for.you	msanthrope	Jul 2014	#128
+1, wow-- hadn't seen that one.	Marr	Jul 2014	#152
Kindly cite a single post where I've 'defended' illegal actions by the NSA. I'll wait. nt	msanthrope	Jul 2014	#98
I had a host tell me I must support spying because I never post in NSA threads!	bettyellen	Jul 2014	#100
I bet I can guess which Host it was...	SidDithers	Jul 2014	#102
LOL. I think I know that host	Cali_Democrat	Jul 2014	#116
Yep	Bobbie Jo	Jul 2014	#120
Name drop, please.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#125
It's against DU rules	leftynyc	Jul 2014	#185
Obviously, since I've never posted about my dislike of NAMBLA, I must be a member. nt	msanthrope	Jul 2014	#107
that is the level of paranoia and hatred here. and it's fucking up DU.	bettyellen	Jul 2014	#108
That's basically the idiotic sentiment.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#124
tell me about it- I got a why don't "you people" meaning feminists and POC post on Snowden/ GG	bettyellen	Jul 2014	#164
Worse is when it's some issue not covered by the media.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#175
yeah, feminists get the why do people ignore or get mad when I post about women having X happen in Y	bettyellen	Jul 2014	#176
You have been on record overturning these laws.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#122
So Greenwald is smearing himself	Cali_Democrat	Jul 2014	#114
Machines don't smear people, personas do.	bobduca	Jul 2014	#136
+1	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#142
+1, the only reason the usual crew cares about Greenwald's thoughts on this issue	Marr	Jul 2014	#151
+1	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#163
You were not wrong...	Tikki	Jun 2014	#68
A question about what Greenwald ACTUALLY SAID (if we can stop flinging poo for a moment)	Jim Lane	Jun 2014	#75
This is an appeal to authority.	joshcryer	Jun 2014	#77
You set this out very clearly. Thanks. n/t	pnwmom	Jul 2014	#174
His observations are a mix of sophistry, lies, and presumption.	OilemFirchen	Jul 2014	#83
Yeah, it's obvious their dissent on RFRA is for flexibility.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#92
Or...	OilemFirchen	Jul 2014	#94
KnR	sheshe2	Jul 2014	#81
Post removed	Post removed	Jul 2014	#85
If it helps...	OilemFirchen	Jul 2014	#88
a good day for ignore	reddread	Jul 2014	#89
"unhinged"	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#93
Alert Swarming for the win!	bobduca	Jul 2014	#137
Well, that was ironic	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#143
Facts aren't smears.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#169
You understate your point, but you are correct.	Vattel	Jul 2014	#110
+1	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#147
That's expected. Libertarians are the architects of the coming Kochstitution, so they oppose Obama:	freshwest	Jul 2014	#95
No glen, Ginsburg is not correct. This ruling is specifically against women. In fact it says	lostincalifornia	Jul 2014	#101
DU rec for pissing off all the right people...nt	SidDithers	Jul 2014	#103
OMG, Greenwald didn't directly answer a tweeted question. He is so evil!!!!!	Vattel	Jul 2014	#109
Thank you for mansplaining to me why I shouldn't worry. nt	msanthrope	Jul 2014	#112
yw	Vattel	Jul 2014	#113
What does "yw" mean?	msanthrope	Jul 2014	#115
you're welcome	Vattel	Jul 2014	#117
Do I not rate full words? Capitals? Punctuation? nt	msanthrope	Jul 2014	#118
lol, IMHO prolly u do	Vattel	Jul 2014	#119
The OP's linked post doesn't link to where he linked the conservative reading.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#123
The question he didn't directly answer was whether he agreed with the ruling.	Vattel	Jul 2014	#134
It doesn't matter whether he says he agrees.	joshcryer	Jul 2014	#171
The text makes no such distinction. The law applies to the free exercise of religion by persons.	Vattel	Jul 2014	#192
+10000 Any smear will do	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#145
I guess, but here is my puzzle.	Vattel	Jul 2014	#161
Well,	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#162
Some of it might be an organized attempt at disinformation and disruption, but	Vattel	Jul 2014	#165
Oh, I'm sure there's some of that, too.	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#166
You may be right. Be that as it may, the stupidity of most of the smears never ceases to amaze me.	Vattel	Jul 2014	#167
Bwah. Yeah, you're right.	woo me with science	Jul 2014	#177
Again we see his agenda isn't to do the right thing, it's to promote Libertarianism and...	stevenleser	Jul 2014	#129
But...but....but...! Snowden!!!	MADem	Jul 2014	#130
This thread has more fireworks in it than what Greenwald promised.	randome	Jul 2014	#133
HATE GREENWALD RAWR ARGLE BARGLE	bobduca	Jul 2014	#135
Okay! You're in!	randome	Jul 2014	#149
GREENWALD IS HIS OWN WORST FUCKING ENEMY. I can lock my caps, too.	Cha	Jul 2014	#181
you be nice now, as you can see I'm now a member of the kewl kids club	bobduca	Jul 2014	#186
Don't be paranoid.. I see no club.	Cha	Jul 2014	#188
Dang if it doesn't work for him	flamingdem	Jul 2014	#190
Ha, like the cult of GG gives a shit what he does.. he could go out and defend a misogynistic	Cha	Jul 2014	#191
How stupid of him to jump forums and speak! Now, WOMEN won't give a crap about Snowdon.	TheNutcracker	Jul 2014	#159
Uhmm...your link doesn't say what you claim.	TheKentuckian	Jul 2014	#179
There is much about him that bothers me. nt	arthritisR_US	Jul 2014	#180
Greenwald continues to be the snotty, self serving, CEO fellating little prick he has always been.	phleshdef	Jul 2014	#183
that that... fellator!1111	bobduca	Jul 2014	#187
Ugh	flamingdem	Jul 2014	#189
It's The S&G Show! Now in its second exciting season!	randome	Jul 2014	#197

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