General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

36. Treason, no. Stupidity, yes.

Reply to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Tue Jul 1, 2014, 01:01 AM

Jul 2014

I don't think anyone on DU has ever denied that Nader had a right to run if he so chose. Equally important, however, is that he had a right not to run -- or, my personal preference, to run in the Democratic primaries (I would have voted for him) instead of in the general election.

I don't ask that anyone forget anything. I just point out that Nader chose to run in the general, that astute people warned him in advance of what might happen, that the dire possibility actually occurred, and that if he had heeded this sage advice, Gore would have become President.

How about a deal -- I won't ask you to forget any of your criticisms about what various Democrats should have done, as long as we also don't forget criticisms about what Nader should have done?

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The Treason of Nader [View all] Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 OP

I'm not about to fucking forget that. I'm going to remember that to my grave. Autumn Jun 2014 #1

DURec leftstreet Jun 2014 #2

brilliant G_j Jun 2014 #16

Peace! Please! PatrickforO Jul 2014 #43

the serenity to accept the things we can't change, change the things we can-- and eridani Jul 2014 #65

Incoming! You will get attacked as a Ron/Rand Paul supporter. Err, no, I meant Nader supporter! quinnox Jun 2014 #3

you can only be bipartisan on corporate-approved issues yurbud Jul 2014 #86

Anyone who only blames Nader is suspect. ForgoTheConsequence Jun 2014 #4

Protect? Nader is their ally, it's all about exposing who's working for whom. geek tragedy Jun 2014 #19

Because actively conspiring with republicans happens betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #26

are you suggesting that Al Gore would have invaded Iraq or that he's a personal favorite geek tragedy Jul 2014 #27

Given that he chose Joe Lieberman as VP betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #29

Gore opposed Kyoto like Obama was geek tragedy Jul 2014 #32

The United States of Amnesia betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #39

Oy. Do you seriously need explained to you geek tragedy Jul 2014 #41

Same reason you submit minimum wage bill even if its defeated betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #45

Derp. Derp. Derpity doo.nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #47

Fail. Scuba Jul 2014 #66

No one with the slightest bit of understanding geek tragedy Jul 2014 #68

I believe Gore supported the principles behind the Kyoto agreement, but he failed to .... Scuba Jul 2014 #71

The Republican Senate was more than eager to get on the record opposing it. geek tragedy Jul 2014 #73

If Gore was willing to lose the election over it, why did he not push it? Scuba Jul 2014 #74

He wasn't President. The US may not have signed at all had geek tragedy Jul 2014 #75

Gore helped put together the Kyoto Protocol when he was Vice President Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #38

Wrong betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #40

You're wrong Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #48

What was the name of the bill submitted betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #50

The Kyoto Protocol itself was never submitted Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #53

Yeah, that was *exactly* what was suggested in that post you replied to Aerows Jul 2014 #83

Actually, that is EXACTLY what they are saying. I was correct geek tragedy Jul 2014 #87

Conspired? Like Hillary? ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2014 #59

That was craven pandering. nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #61

Is it? ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2014 #62

Who said it was excusable? Of course, geek tragedy Jul 2014 #70

Not only that, but I don't think Nader AAO Jul 2014 #108

Let's see...SCOTUS just gutted women's rights and unions jeff47 Jun 2014 #5

But at least the Democrats fought those RW SC nominations leftstreet Jun 2014 #7

Just like Republicans fought those Obama nominations jeff47 Jun 2014 #9

Sounds like they're in cahoots !! leftstreet Jun 2014 #10

if you think they are you should not support Democrats JI7 Jun 2014 #12

Maybe Nader wil run again!! leftstreet Jun 2014 #13

whatever he decides to do i'm sure there will be those who continue to spew the both parties JI7 Jun 2014 #14

Hell yes, and let me add this: Bonobo Jun 2014 #6

Putting the blame on Nader is a cautionary tale meant to scare folks who do not want to vote for djean111 Jun 2014 #8

"The Treason of Nader" is all about silencing and minimizing the voice of the Left. Maedhros Jul 2014 #77

I think the wheels are coming off that bus. djean111 Jul 2014 #79

Lieberman had a good record on when it came to rights concerning minorities JI7 Jun 2014 #11

What about the disabled like me betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #28

that was after the 2000 election JI7 Jul 2014 #30

He did plenty of shifty republican things before 2000 too betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #33

i know he did, i know he wasn't some great liberal JI7 Jul 2014 #35

Care to be specific? Joe was good on LGBT rights to an extent, but Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #69

Like the parent who blames the "other" kid and does not take responsibility ... slipslidingaway Jun 2014 #15

Hyper focusing on Nader BlindTiresias Jun 2014 #17

Yes, and LWolf Jun 2014 #18

DU Unrec MohRokTah Jun 2014 #20

Unrec yourself, and Ignore. nt truebluegreen Jul 2014 #76

What else can a blind loyalist do? Marr Jun 2014 #21

No, what's dumb is acting like Democrats are to blame for Alito and Roberts, geek tragedy Jun 2014 #22

So anyone who runs for prez without a D after their name is guilty of treason? davidn3600 Jun 2014 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2014 #24

Who is this "Nader"? In the whole thread only one person mentions... TreasonousBastard Jun 2014 #25

None of that happens without 9/11. joshcryer Jul 2014 #31

It is not Nader's fault that the Bush Clan stole the election... EEO Jul 2014 #34

Treason, no. Stupidity, yes. Jim Lane Jul 2014 #36

in 2033 when we're in Gabon or Madagascar they'll still be blaming Nader: GORE said MisterP Jul 2014 #37

Oh well only those that want to forget all about it do so. Rex Jul 2014 #42

There is too much nuance in the reality of the situation. Maedhros Jul 2014 #80

Well conservatives do often hover around simple answers. Rex Jul 2014 #84

SCOTUS had no jurisdiction to rule in the case. Maedhros Jul 2014 #88

I agree and that is why I was calling it the 2000 coup. Rex Jul 2014 #94

Your post is revision, btw, Nader fought hard, dirty. joshcryer Jul 2014 #44

Huh? Why? Bonobo Jul 2014 #46

Well, the Greenies are irrelevant in New York geek tragedy Jul 2014 #49

The WFP has repeatedly sold out to centrists like Cuomo betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #51

"parties that don't win any elections don't get to claim they have a 50 state plan..." Bonobo Jul 2014 #52

True enough. You'd think a 50-state plan for a third party would be to target local races winter is coming Jul 2014 #54

He didn't do a 50 state strategy. joshcryer Jul 2014 #55

"It's obvious most people voted for Nader when they felt their state was safe." Bonobo Jul 2014 #56

Approval voting fixes that. joshcryer Jul 2014 #57

I love it. nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #58

The Pom-Pom brigade has been pretty diligently posting today villager Jul 2014 #60

Arguments about ideas: +2 Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #63

DU Rec. SixString Jul 2014 #64

Fuck Nader trumad Jul 2014 #67

How astute. I stand in awe of your keen insight. [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #81

good..you should! trumad Jul 2014 #91

I'm laughing at the superior intellect...[n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #95

Yuck Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #98

People are uncomfortable with many truths of that election, including Senate Democrats refusing Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #72

I forgot about that. Maedhros Jul 2014 #82

here, G_j Jul 2014 #93

Nader played his part and we should not wash over it. He is not blameless. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #78

Feigning ignorance of the effects of splitting the vote will never be convincing stevenleser Jul 2014 #85

You would have to establish that nader actually "split" enough votes to matter. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #89

That has been established and talked about over and over again. stevenleser Jul 2014 #90

Its the why that I don't always get BootinUp Jul 2014 #92

no really it hasnt. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #96

Yes, it really has. Nader voters were polled. They would have put Gore over the top if Nader hadnt stevenleser Jul 2014 #97

What about the Supreme Court stopping the recount? Octafish Jul 2014 #101

There would have been no recount without Nader. Gore wins. nt stevenleser Jul 2014 #104

There wasn't a recount and Gore did win. The blame is squarely and solely morningfog Jul 2014 #106

really, got a link? Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #102

Yes, really, here are two, I can give you dozens of links where the analysis was done stevenleser Jul 2014 #103

The nerve of that guy. Octafish Jul 2014 #99

Exactly. 99Forever Jul 2014 #100

Nader was one of many factors in Gore's defeat Orrex Jul 2014 #105

Didn't this happen nearly 15 years ago. Calista241 Jul 2014 #107