General Discussion

rrneck

(17,671 posts)

178. If you had a point, maybe.

Wed Apr 4, 2012, 05:53 PM

Apr 2012

Some things that are real:

1. The police can't jump through a rip in the fabric of time.

2. Knives are just as deadly as guns, especially when weilded by a larger and stronger attacker.

3. The vast majority of people will never have to fight for their lives thus, most people are not physically able to do it.

4. Some people will have to fight for their lives, we just don't know who or when.

5. Most bankruptcies are the result of medical expenses. Even a broken jaw is very expensive. A single punch can break a jaw.

6. You don't have a solution for the disparity of force between most people and most criminals without the use of a gun.

The plain truth is that a firearm is the best self defense tool, hands down. Your fixation on guns to support your bourgeoisie ideology is an exercise in self congratulation. Nothing more. It has no relationship to the real world.

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There's a debate about whether Zimmerman should have been carrying [View all] MrScorpio Apr 2012 OP

If the charge for assaulting a police officer had not been dismissed, George might be in prison. yardwork Apr 2012 #1

Two women HockeyMom Apr 2012 #3

Thanks for that reminder. At least four assaults that we know of. Who knows how many total. yardwork Apr 2012 #4

For PICKING HER UP AND THROWING HER.... Ecumenist Apr 2012 #9

Not stable enough to carry a firearm! freshwest Apr 2012 #126

the most dangerous dog Locrian Apr 2012 #2

Powerful and well said. K&R! MarianJack Apr 2012 #5

I don't carry one, but I don't pretend to be more qualified to make that decision for another person slackmaster Apr 2012 #6

Whatever the state's requirements are, and whether or not Zimmerman met them ... markpkessinger Apr 2012 #91

As long as the requirements are purely objective and not subject to political favoritism or biases slackmaster Apr 2012 #108

I agree 100% ... markpkessinger Apr 2012 #120

You may not be qualified enough to say Zimmerman wasn't fit to carry a weapon CreekDog Apr 2012 #173

My position is a bit more nuanced than you give me credit for slackmaster Apr 2012 #182

I agree that Zimmerman was stupid Kaleva Apr 2012 #7

exactly what I've been trying to say riverwalker Apr 2012 #8

You're probably in one of the safest demographics Kaleva Apr 2012 #10

You have touched on something that supports the theory of the OP JDPriestly Apr 2012 #16

you said it pretty well yourself Riverwalker Bluerthanblue Apr 2012 #11

What do you think a police officer's motivation is for carrying a sidearm? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #28

If they don't, they should libodem Apr 2012 #54

Police carry firearms to defend themselves in an emergency. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #98

Aren't police officers required to carry a sidearm while on duty? Mariana Apr 2012 #92

Do you think that is their primary motivation for carrying one? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #99

You've said it brilliantly, also. Zookeeper Apr 2012 #146

Zimmerman's problem Aerows Apr 2012 #12

99% agree. But the recovering alki in me sees the addict in the Zimmster... Junkdrawer Apr 2012 #13

"NOTHING is more addictive than that which relieves fear - even temporarily. " Zookeeper Apr 2012 #147

Yes, Zimmerman is a coward, an idiot, and a bully. rrneck Apr 2012 #14

Interesting question in how do we differentiate between legitimate need and the GZs of society. bluesbassman Apr 2012 #26

If someone rrneck Apr 2012 #33

Something else just occured to me... rrneck Apr 2012 #43

Since so many apparently normal people kill others with guns, even without a past criminal record... CreekDog Apr 2012 #174

Whatever makes you feel good about rrneck Apr 2012 #176

will I feel as good about my ideas as other folks will feel safer for having guns? CreekDog Apr 2012 #177

If you had a point, maybe. rrneck Apr 2012 #178

31 people have been killed by one knife wielding man in just minutes? CreekDog Apr 2012 #179

Why does it have to be minutes? rrneck Apr 2012 #180

are you saying that the speed with which a weapon can kill is not related to it's deadliness? CreekDog Apr 2012 #181

How would you kill 31 people without a gun? rrneck Apr 2012 #184

HELL yeah! Joseph8th Apr 2012 #15

You win one internets! kurtzapril4 Apr 2012 #139

*Here's* your "well-regulated militia"- and Zimmerman is most certainly a member: friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #185

Packing heat is about shooting your fool mouth off, with the certainty that noone can righteously be WingDinger Apr 2012 #17

I've been carrying for 9 years. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #18

I have been carrying for longer Johnson20 Apr 2012 #22

Oooh... did that make you feel tuff? Joseph8th Apr 2012 #122

If you've "had my ass kicked", you exist only because the person who did it, didn't intend to kill y AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #134

Right... the dude-bros who kicked my ass... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #153

You couldn't be righter. A colleague of mine, COLGATE4 Apr 2012 #158

I completely agree, with one caveat... AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #161

Your caveat is certainly legitimate. But I believe that, COLGATE4 Apr 2012 #164

He chased after him texshelters Apr 2012 #19

Sir, no where in the 2nd Amendment Johnson20 Apr 2012 #20

The point, my friend, is this... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #25

And arms aren't always guns. anti-alec Apr 2012 #32

a point that goes BEYOND the gun debate DonCoquixote Apr 2012 #21

I think that is a very, very good question. Johnson20 Apr 2012 #23

He was accused of assaulting an officer, the charges were dropped, and no conviction. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #24

Yea, assuming it gets reported properly and the person doesn't just go buy a gun from a Hoyt Apr 2012 #41

Niether potential issue of which has any bearing on this issue whatsoever. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #46

Not everyone who carries concealed weapons is afraid. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #27

I've got one question for you MrScorpio Apr 2012 #30

I'm all for concealed carry, not open carry. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #34

This what I want to know... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #55

There is not enough evidence to make that case. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #101

I'm okay with open carry kurtzapril4 Apr 2012 #140

You have less to fear from a concealed carry permit holder than anyone else. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #141

No... I'm saying it's better... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #186

That is insane. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #188

When did... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #205

Here's what happens if your dream comes to fruition. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #206

There are legal reasons nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #29

It honestly baffles me Wumpusrat Apr 2012 #31

There's a right way to be a responsible gun owner MrScorpio Apr 2012 #35

Read the law - it does not allow that. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #36

Actually It Does, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #42

That is true. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #49

As A Practical Matter, Though, Sir, That Poster Has A Point The Magistrate Apr 2012 #56

You are again right. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #64

People Who Legitimately Defend Themselves, Sir, Do Not Have Difficulties The Magistrate Apr 2012 #69

This is not true. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #77

You Will Have To Do A Lot Better Than That, Sir.... The Magistrate Apr 2012 #103

You must be joking. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #129

A Fizzing Critter Who Seriously Wants To Shoot Somebody, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #149

I think you are revealing a lack of knowlege about Massad Ayoob, Sir. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #155

He Wrote What He Wrote, Sir, and That Is Window To the Soul The Magistrate Apr 2012 #159

So what did he write, Sir, that makes you think he wants to shoot someone? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #165

The Whole Thing Is Far Too Em-Purpled, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #167

I'll take this, Sir, as an indication that you didn't read it or can't support your assertion. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #172

You Can Take It As An Indication Of Anything You Like, Sir: It Will Not Bother Me The Magistrate Apr 2012 #175

It's nice to see people admit when the US Constitution and Bill of Rights is a trviality. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #187

Disproportionate result. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #168

"a highly unjust scenario." Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #189

Nationwide you say? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #136

Most Back-Shootings Are Self-Defense, Sir: People Are Never More Menacing Than With Backs Turned The Magistrate Apr 2012 #148

One of those, the back was turned because the assailant was attacking another person AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #160

Only Two Came Through, Sir: The Drunken Brawl One Contains Insufficient Facts To Form An Opinion The Magistrate Apr 2012 #163

Now I find myself in the position of defending something I do not approve of. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #166

Then Spare Yourself the Trouble, Sir, and Refrain From Doing So The Magistrate Apr 2012 #169

I disagree. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #170

Exactly - why should both cases be able to destroy a life? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #190

One wonders how many of the police reports now on record were done that night.... Junkdrawer Apr 2012 #53

Well... Wumpusrat Apr 2012 #44

Anyone can claim anything. This is why we rely on things like evidence. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #47

Right, however... Wumpusrat Apr 2012 #90

It's too late then. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #97

Exactly. Legally, someone could pick fight outside a bar... Zookeeper Apr 2012 #156

This article secondvariety Apr 2012 #93

This is a great article, but not the way the author intends. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #131

How about this-happened outside Tampa; secondvariety Apr 2012 #162

It is not logical, because it is not in any way an accurate reflection of the law. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #132

I think I have the right to know if the fucking idiot DevonRex Apr 2012 #37

Then ask him. rrneck Apr 2012 #38

Typical response from those who carry guns in public. Hoyt Apr 2012 #40

What are you afraid of? rrneck Apr 2012 #45

I'm not the one who has to strap a gun or two to my body before walking out the door. Hoyt Apr 2012 #61

What's your point? nt rrneck Apr 2012 #66

I think you've nailed it. But, there are lots of folks who carry for the very same reasons as Zimmy. Hoyt Apr 2012 #39

More Guns = More Fear = More Guns = More Fear = ..... Junkdrawer Apr 2012 #48

Good luck with that. The Democratic party has dropped gun control from it's platform. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #50

Just biding time while pro-gun crowd creates enough concern to bite the bullet and severely Hoyt Apr 2012 #63

Just got paid today, that's precisely what I'm going to do. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #76

Pretty easy to figure out what the pro-gun crowd is going to do. Life revolves around guns. Hoyt Apr 2012 #78

Nah, my life revolves around my kids. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #82

Spot on, Hoyt. Enough is ENOUGH of this gun fetish. Reform or repeal the 2nd amendment. nt Joseph8th Apr 2012 #123

Good luck with that. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #191

Thx, we'll need it... :) Joseph8th Apr 2012 #204

I live in a really bad area of town, violence, shootings, whole nine yards. joshcryer Apr 2012 #51

Do you really believe that? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #52

I prefer to rely on that old Japanese adage... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #58

I prefer this one: Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #68

Let me ask you MrScorpio Apr 2012 #72

Answers. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #74

This is where we differ: MrScorpio Apr 2012 #79

No, I agree it is a choice. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #81

OK, I don't get this: MrScorpio Apr 2012 #88

Where do you see evidence that he brandished a firearm? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #95

So you think that he didn't want his weapon to be SEEN by Trayvon? And why not? MrScorpio Apr 2012 #102

A person who legally carries a firearm in Florida does not want his weapon to be seen ... spin Apr 2012 #111

Well, something like that particular point needs to be left up to a jury MrScorpio Apr 2012 #112

I agree. (n/t) spin Apr 2012 #113

Absolutely. There should be an investigation. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #192

Even if he did... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #124

"take your beating like a man." Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #193

No... I told gun nut bullies to take their beatings... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #203

I'm assuming that means you have no citation? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #130

Frankly, I'm disturbed at your insistence in making this debate about all CCW holders MrScorpio Apr 2012 #171

He could have been carrying 15 guns, and nothing would have gone wrong had he not AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #135

Yet, he actually used the weapon that he was carrying into a confrontation that he initiated MrScorpio Apr 2012 #137

Darn it, I guess all my guns are broken. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #138

This is not a discussion about any of the OTHER 300 million or so firearms in America MrScorpio Apr 2012 #142

I largely agree with you. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #143

Is there another intended usage for carrying a loaded handgun into a confrontation... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #145

No, I think we agree, but I may have worded it badly. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #157

OK, you keep saying this isn't about OTHER CCW permit holders, but... Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #194

Wearing a seatbelt prepares you for the possibility of being in a crash... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #196

Of course. This doesn't mean that you are actively seeking that possibility. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #197

See. We're pretty much in agreement here MrScorpio Apr 2012 #198

If it went down the way the evidence seems to currently point, I agree. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #199

Carrying the Power Of Life And Death, Sir, Does Tend To Do That To Man The Magistrate Apr 2012 #59

So do you believe it would happen to you? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #70

Personally, Sir, Weaponry Was Not Necessary for Me To Be Exceedingly Dangerous The Magistrate Apr 2012 #75

Again, I disagree. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #84

We Will Leave Aside, Sir, That Rates Of 'Justifiable Homicide' In Florida Have Gone Up Steeply The Magistrate Apr 2012 #106

Yup, just saw an article about it. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #133

Analyzing Cases, Sir, Does Not Seem To Be Your Strong Point The Magistrate Apr 2012 #151

I'm sure if the author could have dug up more he would have. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #152

My perception of others around me is absolutely defined by what items I have in my pocket. joshcryer Apr 2012 #60

My situational awareness is the same regardless. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #67

Not sure why. There's a different level of responsibility. joshcryer Apr 2012 #71

But rationally, surely you realize that no on knows how much money is in your pocket. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #80

I don't get it. I'm supposed to have the same level of preparedness that I would have if I had $5... joshcryer Apr 2012 #83

I probably do have better situational awareness than most. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #86

I never said that it would "influence the behavior of the people around me." joshcryer Apr 2012 #87

I know. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #94

Oh, that example was just an example. Say that I wasn't actually showing anything. joshcryer Apr 2012 #96

More power to your home shotgun... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #57

Yep, not loaded. The sound of it maybe loading I figure is enough. joshcryer Apr 2012 #62

Now you're cooking with Crisco MrScorpio Apr 2012 #65

Bad movie trope. Please don't rely on false memes for self-defense. n/t PavePusher Apr 2012 #85

Now, that's what I'm talking about. I wish all gun owners were as responsible/sensible as you. Hoyt Apr 2012 #73

Why do you feel you would walk around "being suspicious of everyone" ... spin Apr 2012 #110

This whole incident libodem Apr 2012 #89

Don't forget family connections and privilege. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #100

According to one report that I haven't seen reported here at the DU . . . Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #104

This may be true. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #195

And that means this may be true also. Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #200

Probably is true. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #201

Probably? When the probability reaches 100%, it is no longer considered a probability. Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #207

Zimmerman is a gun nut and a COWARD Skittles Apr 2012 #105

"Stand your Ground" laws are nothing more than a legal way to go human hunting LynneSin Apr 2012 #107

I agree with about half of what you said. krispos42 Apr 2012 #109

I don't think you understand the carry laws. You can't take guns to Hooter's or most commercial Honeycombe8 Apr 2012 #114

Right on! And write on! RedCloud Apr 2012 #115

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #116

Welcome to DU and thank you for proving MrScorpio's point. uppityperson Apr 2012 #117

Damn, I missed one MrScorpio Apr 2012 #121

Did you forget your gun? joshcryer Apr 2012 #125

Welcome to Democratic Underground. William769 Apr 2012 #118

I agree with you Generic Other Apr 2012 #119

+1. n/t Zookeeper Apr 2012 #154

Debate?????????? marshall gaines Apr 2012 #127

Don't blame the gun laws. Blame the protections that covered Zimmerman .... marble falls Apr 2012 #128

You mean to tell me when FL. EmeraldCityGrl Apr 2012 #144

There is a difference between gun laws and "stand your ground" laws .... marble falls Apr 2012 #202

+1000, Mr. Scorpio. Zookeeper Apr 2012 #150

Might consider adding realtors to that list of occupations. moriah Apr 2012 #183