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frazzled

(18,402 posts)

33. Don't be naive

Thu Jul 3, 2014, 01:52 PM

Jul 2014

and don't be coy, and don't be theoretical. The facts are: the electoral college was and remains the system, and you have to deal with it and make decisions within that framework; a third-party vote in Florida allowed the what would not have been a close vote there to become contested; and this latter event never could have been pulled off had Nader not run.

Nader's run was stupid: there was no way he could win, and he couldn't even influence the discussion (he didn't have sufficient standing in the polls to qualify: rules that were in place long before he ran). He should have pulled out.

People who voted for Nader were like my naive, then 19-year-old niece, and others easily swayed by faux idealism. She learned her lesson, why can't you? Were 8 years of Bush not enough for you?

There is a difference between parties, and candidates: and anyone who tells you differently is a charlatan out for their own purposes.

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Why is it so important to blame Nader for the 2000 election? [View all] MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 OP

I'd prefer this in poll form, sir. bravenak Jul 2014 #1

Actually, it is Left bashing RobertEarl Jul 2014 #69

Because Splinterism Is The Abiding Curse Of The Left, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2014 #2

I guess they like to carry water for Karl Rove, what other conclusion is there? Rex Jul 2014 #3

Right, the only reason anyone would ever disagree with you about anything is bad motives. Jim Lane Jul 2014 #86

Rub you the wrong way did I? Rex Jul 2014 #103

It's the same small group that assiduously attacks anything left of their center/right perspective villager Jul 2014 #4

Very Astute Observation... 2banon Jul 2014 #56

Precisely n/t Aerows Jul 2014 #95

Because too many liberals are still afraid of Bush? derby378 Jul 2014 #5

To discourage people from voting for a third party or anyone considered unelectable abelenkpe Jul 2014 #6

Hey look at this poll, which is asked properly, unlike that one, just today... onehandle Jul 2014 #7

+1 we can do it Jul 2014 #62

It's the obligatory pre-election Nader hate fest that's as regular as the Olympics on DU. I ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2014 #8

Maybe the Democratic Party should worry more about why some of its members are "unhappy" Maedhros Jul 2014 #24

Exactly. ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2014 #92

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. CincyDem Jul 2014 #9

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #88

Odd that many of that small group seem to forgive the crimes of the national security state. Octafish Jul 2014 #10

YEP. Rex Jul 2014 #36

are they the same folks that form the "GG" hate brigade? G_j Jul 2014 #76

Yep Aerows Jul 2014 #96

The same crowd that will vehemently declare "hope and change is working" obxhead Jul 2014 #57

Because then they don't have to blame Gore for failing to appeal to the 50% of the electorate ... Scuba Jul 2014 #11

But Gore got over half a million more votes than the "winner" frazzled Jul 2014 #22

If Gore won, why blame Nader? Blame the electoral college. Blame the BFEE and the SCOTUS. Scuba Jul 2014 #30

Don't be naive frazzled Jul 2014 #33

I'm hardly naive, more like calloused ... Scuba Jul 2014 #45

You're dealing in alternate universes again. frazzled Jul 2014 #50

Please link to any post of mine that supported Nader. Doesn't even have to be this thread. Scuba Jul 2014 #72

AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO BLAME NAFTA !! leftstreet Jul 2014 #79

Yep. Scuba Jul 2014 #97

I haven't looked into the history of the small group you mentioned but... Oakenshield Jul 2014 #12

Rage. jeff47 Jul 2014 #13

Excellent response. Nt. thucythucy Jul 2014 #104

Why is it so important to defend him? onehandle Jul 2014 #14

BECAUSE Skittles Jul 2014 #15

Should we kick your NSA loving, Greenwald hating, social justice loving ass? Because if you're not bettyellen Jul 2014 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jul 2014 #16

^^winner^^ Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #41

'mythopedias' !! leftstreet Jul 2014 #53

Why is it so important to defend his honor? conservaphobe Jul 2014 #17

He helped put seatbelts in the automobile. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #18

And by running for President, he turned the nation over to the predations of corporate greed. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #20

Not buying that story. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #23

Wouldn't have even needed the Supreme Court if Nader had stayed the fuck out of the way. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #25

This is a democratic republic. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #26

This is odd behavior imo...DEMS that hate democracy? Rex Jul 2014 #39

It's tribal mentality. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #55

Well it is all the usual suspects. Rex Jul 2014 #64

And this is Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #46

So, refusing to hop onto the "Blame Nader!" bandwagon is me advocating for third party? Oakenshield Jul 2014 #48

So, criticizing Nader's impact Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #54

I don't particularly care if you disagree. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #66

Whatever Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #74

Except it wasn't off-base. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #89

Nader was a spoiler. Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #98

You are demonstrably wrong. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #99

The way you can tell that analysis is bullshit jeff47 Jul 2014 #105

That 13% does however demonstrate just how weak Gore's campaign was. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #108

"you people"? You mean the ones actually very pissed at SCROTUS right now? bettyellen Jul 2014 #114

And where was I trying to downplay the guilt of the Supreme Court? Oakenshield Jul 2014 #117

The real elephant in the room that was responsible for Gore's defeat ... GeorgeGist Jul 2014 #109

He wasn't "trying to compete in the democratic process" YoungDemCA Jul 2014 #42

So now he's a trojan horse? Oakenshield Jul 2014 #51

how is not blaming Nader the same as defending his honor? tk2kewl Jul 2014 #19

Simply not blaming him is not defending him. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #21

So the realists should just stay out of all the Nader-bashing threads that keep appearing? Doctor_J Jul 2014 #63

Nader was not the sole reason and if people are saying he is the sole reason Gore lost they are hrmjustin Jul 2014 #27

Agreed LordGlenconner Jul 2014 #70

It's important to blame Nader, because otherwise we'd have to look at the warts on our own Party. Maedhros Jul 2014 #28

^^ THIS!!! ^^ It's a two-fer!! RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #85

Their actions are sending a loud and clear message that they DON'T WANT votes from the Left.[n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #91

Well, that would be the common sense conclusion RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #94

It's the HillaryBots... HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #31

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #34

Because people apparently haven't learned the lesson yet. gcomeau Jul 2014 #32

Because the fault can't be with us. JoeyT Jul 2014 #35

That is why I wish Warren would commit to running already betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #37

If the term "Professional Leftist" ever applied to anyone... YoungDemCA Jul 2014 #38

To stamp out dissent against Clinton. Orsino Jul 2014 #40

Primarily because we don't want to lose another big election because of people who DanTex Jul 2014 #43

Some people are more concerned with being self-righteous than with the real world YoungDemCA Jul 2014 #49

Because the establishment parties fear the left. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #44

Why worry or work for November, when we can rehash the past? It's not like we need to GOTV... genwah Jul 2014 #47

Unfortunately, LWolf Jul 2014 #52

Because their recycled Snowden smears were getting old?? RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #58

Does seem to be the exact same "group" Doctor_J Jul 2014 #61

Bingo. n/t QC Jul 2014 #102

cause they're liars -- promoting a false meme xchrom Jul 2014 #59

nonsense, I'm a leftist, Nader put bush in the oval office. that's fact not opinion. bowens43 Jul 2014 #67

There have been about 15 Nader threads started since Monday Doctor_J Jul 2014 #60

because it's his fault? bowens43 Jul 2014 #65

Because if leftist purists continue to demand ideological purity in national elections... MohRokTah Jul 2014 #68

"Ideological purity" and "pragmatist" are bullshit memes used to dismiss the left. winter is coming Jul 2014 #78

You are WAY off base. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #110

LOL. n/t winter is coming Jul 2014 #113

We should have 15 parties running like Austrailia! Harder to cheat. TheNutcracker Jul 2014 #71

Also, have proportional representation, not first past the post. Electric Monk Jul 2014 #75

Simple: to support the false illusion of choice. morningfog Jul 2014 #73

Why is it so important to absolve Nader for his role in 2000 election?... SidDithers Jul 2014 #77

The acted legally. Those who voted for him did too. morningfog Jul 2014 #80

legally yes- but in the nations best interest? Only in their dreams. Idiotic thing to do in a swing bettyellen Jul 2014 #111

How many Nader voters would have gone for Gore if JEB Jul 2014 #81

I suspect not many betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #84

to protect the reputation of the Bush family reddread Jul 2014 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #83

This message was self-deleted by its author G_j Jul 2014 #87

Because of his 97,488 Florida votes. And his lies about Gore being the same as Bush. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #90

Because then the people who blame him... vi5 Jul 2014 #93

It gets a response here. (nt) Inkfreak Jul 2014 #100

That way we don't have to fix the real problem: Turbineguy Jul 2014 #101

And why all the usual suspects bringing it up 14 years later? Rex Jul 2014 #106

It's not BainsBane Jul 2014 #107

This debate has been going on for 14 years treestar Jul 2014 #112

Because idiots. n/t flvegan Jul 2014 #115

Why no mention of Pat Buchanan? Rstrstx Jul 2014 #116