General Discussion

frazzled

(18,402 posts)

50. You're dealing in alternate universes again.

Thu Jul 3, 2014, 02:13 PM

Jul 2014

The number of people who vote (which is pretty consistent) is the number of people who vote. You have to deal with that reality and act accordingly. It has nothing to do with anything. If the Goddess Athena had descended to earth and bestowed a magic potion on Gore, he would have "won," too.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything--I'm not so naive to think that is possible (and by the same token, there's no way in hell you're convincing me of anything). But I would love to know why you'd be supporting someone with such a, frankly, dubious, self-interested record as Ralph Nader has over the past decade and a half, working with the Norquists and the hedge funds to protect his own personal investments (which he's admitted). Why is any of this worth discussing now? Except to serve as a parable lest people be stupid enough to fall for some third-party charlatan again.

Lastly, why would anyone vote for a Nader knowing he can't win and that it could possibly mean the election of a truly bad candidate? To make yourself feel "better"? I sure wouldn't have felt better if I'd done that.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

117 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Why is it so important to blame Nader for the 2000 election? [View all] MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 OP

I'd prefer this in poll form, sir. bravenak Jul 2014 #1

Actually, it is Left bashing RobertEarl Jul 2014 #69

Because Splinterism Is The Abiding Curse Of The Left, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2014 #2

I guess they like to carry water for Karl Rove, what other conclusion is there? Rex Jul 2014 #3

Right, the only reason anyone would ever disagree with you about anything is bad motives. Jim Lane Jul 2014 #86

Rub you the wrong way did I? Rex Jul 2014 #103

It's the same small group that assiduously attacks anything left of their center/right perspective villager Jul 2014 #4

Very Astute Observation... 2banon Jul 2014 #56

Precisely n/t Aerows Jul 2014 #95

Because too many liberals are still afraid of Bush? derby378 Jul 2014 #5

To discourage people from voting for a third party or anyone considered unelectable abelenkpe Jul 2014 #6

Hey look at this poll, which is asked properly, unlike that one, just today... onehandle Jul 2014 #7

+1 we can do it Jul 2014 #62

It's the obligatory pre-election Nader hate fest that's as regular as the Olympics on DU. I ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2014 #8

Maybe the Democratic Party should worry more about why some of its members are "unhappy" Maedhros Jul 2014 #24

Exactly. ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2014 #92

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. CincyDem Jul 2014 #9

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #88

Odd that many of that small group seem to forgive the crimes of the national security state. Octafish Jul 2014 #10

YEP. Rex Jul 2014 #36

are they the same folks that form the "GG" hate brigade? G_j Jul 2014 #76

Yep Aerows Jul 2014 #96

The same crowd that will vehemently declare "hope and change is working" obxhead Jul 2014 #57

Because then they don't have to blame Gore for failing to appeal to the 50% of the electorate ... Scuba Jul 2014 #11

But Gore got over half a million more votes than the "winner" frazzled Jul 2014 #22

If Gore won, why blame Nader? Blame the electoral college. Blame the BFEE and the SCOTUS. Scuba Jul 2014 #30

Don't be naive frazzled Jul 2014 #33

I'm hardly naive, more like calloused ... Scuba Jul 2014 #45

You're dealing in alternate universes again. frazzled Jul 2014 #50

Please link to any post of mine that supported Nader. Doesn't even have to be this thread. Scuba Jul 2014 #72

AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO BLAME NAFTA !! leftstreet Jul 2014 #79

Yep. Scuba Jul 2014 #97

I haven't looked into the history of the small group you mentioned but... Oakenshield Jul 2014 #12

Rage. jeff47 Jul 2014 #13

Excellent response. Nt. thucythucy Jul 2014 #104

Why is it so important to defend him? onehandle Jul 2014 #14

BECAUSE Skittles Jul 2014 #15

Should we kick your NSA loving, Greenwald hating, social justice loving ass? Because if you're not bettyellen Jul 2014 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jul 2014 #16

^^winner^^ Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #41

'mythopedias' !! leftstreet Jul 2014 #53

Why is it so important to defend his honor? conservaphobe Jul 2014 #17

He helped put seatbelts in the automobile. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #18

And by running for President, he turned the nation over to the predations of corporate greed. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #20

Not buying that story. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #23

Wouldn't have even needed the Supreme Court if Nader had stayed the fuck out of the way. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #25

This is a democratic republic. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #26

This is odd behavior imo...DEMS that hate democracy? Rex Jul 2014 #39

It's tribal mentality. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #55

Well it is all the usual suspects. Rex Jul 2014 #64

And this is Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #46

So, refusing to hop onto the "Blame Nader!" bandwagon is me advocating for third party? Oakenshield Jul 2014 #48

So, criticizing Nader's impact Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #54

I don't particularly care if you disagree. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #66

Whatever Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #74

Except it wasn't off-base. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #89

Nader was a spoiler. Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #98

You are demonstrably wrong. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #99

The way you can tell that analysis is bullshit jeff47 Jul 2014 #105

That 13% does however demonstrate just how weak Gore's campaign was. Oakenshield Jul 2014 #108

"you people"? You mean the ones actually very pissed at SCROTUS right now? bettyellen Jul 2014 #114

And where was I trying to downplay the guilt of the Supreme Court? Oakenshield Jul 2014 #117

The real elephant in the room that was responsible for Gore's defeat ... GeorgeGist Jul 2014 #109

He wasn't "trying to compete in the democratic process" YoungDemCA Jul 2014 #42

So now he's a trojan horse? Oakenshield Jul 2014 #51

how is not blaming Nader the same as defending his honor? tk2kewl Jul 2014 #19

Simply not blaming him is not defending him. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #21

So the realists should just stay out of all the Nader-bashing threads that keep appearing? Doctor_J Jul 2014 #63

Nader was not the sole reason and if people are saying he is the sole reason Gore lost they are hrmjustin Jul 2014 #27

Agreed LordGlenconner Jul 2014 #70

It's important to blame Nader, because otherwise we'd have to look at the warts on our own Party. Maedhros Jul 2014 #28

^^ THIS!!! ^^ It's a two-fer!! RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #85

Their actions are sending a loud and clear message that they DON'T WANT votes from the Left.[n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #91

Well, that would be the common sense conclusion RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #94

It's the HillaryBots... HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #31

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #34

Because people apparently haven't learned the lesson yet. gcomeau Jul 2014 #32

Because the fault can't be with us. JoeyT Jul 2014 #35

That is why I wish Warren would commit to running already betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #37

If the term "Professional Leftist" ever applied to anyone... YoungDemCA Jul 2014 #38

To stamp out dissent against Clinton. Orsino Jul 2014 #40

Primarily because we don't want to lose another big election because of people who DanTex Jul 2014 #43

Some people are more concerned with being self-righteous than with the real world YoungDemCA Jul 2014 #49

Because the establishment parties fear the left. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #44

Why worry or work for November, when we can rehash the past? It's not like we need to GOTV... genwah Jul 2014 #47

Unfortunately, LWolf Jul 2014 #52

Because their recycled Snowden smears were getting old?? RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #58

Does seem to be the exact same "group" Doctor_J Jul 2014 #61

Bingo. n/t QC Jul 2014 #102

cause they're liars -- promoting a false meme xchrom Jul 2014 #59

nonsense, I'm a leftist, Nader put bush in the oval office. that's fact not opinion. bowens43 Jul 2014 #67

There have been about 15 Nader threads started since Monday Doctor_J Jul 2014 #60

because it's his fault? bowens43 Jul 2014 #65

Because if leftist purists continue to demand ideological purity in national elections... MohRokTah Jul 2014 #68

"Ideological purity" and "pragmatist" are bullshit memes used to dismiss the left. winter is coming Jul 2014 #78

You are WAY off base. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #110

LOL. n/t winter is coming Jul 2014 #113

We should have 15 parties running like Austrailia! Harder to cheat. TheNutcracker Jul 2014 #71

Also, have proportional representation, not first past the post. Electric Monk Jul 2014 #75

Simple: to support the false illusion of choice. morningfog Jul 2014 #73

Why is it so important to absolve Nader for his role in 2000 election?... SidDithers Jul 2014 #77

The acted legally. Those who voted for him did too. morningfog Jul 2014 #80

legally yes- but in the nations best interest? Only in their dreams. Idiotic thing to do in a swing bettyellen Jul 2014 #111

How many Nader voters would have gone for Gore if JEB Jul 2014 #81

I suspect not many betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #84

to protect the reputation of the Bush family reddread Jul 2014 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #83

This message was self-deleted by its author G_j Jul 2014 #87

Because of his 97,488 Florida votes. And his lies about Gore being the same as Bush. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #90

Because then the people who blame him... vi5 Jul 2014 #93

It gets a response here. (nt) Inkfreak Jul 2014 #100

That way we don't have to fix the real problem: Turbineguy Jul 2014 #101

And why all the usual suspects bringing it up 14 years later? Rex Jul 2014 #106

It's not BainsBane Jul 2014 #107

This debate has been going on for 14 years treestar Jul 2014 #112

Because idiots. n/t flvegan Jul 2014 #115

Why no mention of Pat Buchanan? Rstrstx Jul 2014 #116